Need a 'little' Excursion help pls

[Rovertrader]

The time has come to build something practical and capable, but capable in an Expo kind of sense, not crawler/wheeler. We just returned from a month in Fl, but not chasing Disney. In fact, no amusement parks at all, but were heavily involved with the nesting Loggerheads as well as releasing some back to the wild, etc. We are very active outdoors, travel a good bit, and planning more lengthy trips as the kids are growing too fast. I have a 23 yo on her own and doing well that occasionally joins us, but primarily it is my wife, the 6 & 8 yo, and myself. We get off the beaten path, travel to places like New Foundland, Alaska, Glacier Nat'l Park, Isle Royale, Big Bend, Mexico, etc, etc. I have been wheeling (Jeeps, Rovers, Broncos, Scouts, etc) and motorcycling a good 40 years, and feel free to check a few of my previous trucks on the SOLD page of my website.
With all that said, I have read (yes, did the searches) about the F-250/350 spring replacements, mini lifts, etc, and have no clear path at this point. I am actually considering a set of true 34"(8.25s- very difficult to find here Stateside, but I have a set of 6) XZLs I have, little worried about flotation on sand, but can air down to single digits, and are indestructible in the desert, and minimal lift/trimming as a result. I need a little more travel as this is the X's big weak link, so looking at a 2" lift or so- is it better to go Deaver, new springs all around, F series replacements with higher blocks in the rear? I want it level, will likely add rear supplemental airbags, etc. We will be loaded- Engel fridge, lower drawers (one for camping gear, one for guns/fishing poles/tools/etc) w/ bed on top- third row seats removed, build a convertible bed for the second row when seats are folded- the kids can fit cross ways for now. May add a RTT later, but will use a rear tent the hatch opens into for now for storage/kitchen/etc as we will sleep inside in bear country.
So, in essence a barge on wheels with decent ride- especially rebound on washboard roads 50+ miles long, and load carrying capacity in relative comfort to log 12+ hour days when traversing from east to west, i.e.: crossing Nebraska or Kansas to get to our destination. Will likely add a decent front bumper, winch, and recovery points front and rear, no sliders, likely some skids for vulnerable areas...
Thoughts??? All productive input greatly appreciated, but don't need the Suburban/Ford/Chevy/etc battles please- we have chosen our poison!!

 

[jluck]

What engine choice? I didn't see one listed. I just went through this excursion hunt myself. I was looking for a diesel 7.3 that didn't have a million miles on it or wasn't beat to crap or overpriced. I gave up. There awesome rigs and I had one I sold to build a 4x4 powerstroke van. I regret selling my excursion.
With that said, good luck.
Side note. I considered a gasser or 6.0 with planns of a cummins swap, which almost penciled out with the ridiculous price of 7.3's in my area.

I was in a quandary looking outside at my extremely clean and well cared for suburban (paid off to-boot), when my answer hit me like a ton of chevy. I will start my SAS swap this year with elocker Dana 60 front then a turned up (250 hp/ 400#TQ est) cummins 4BT next year. I should end up with a better rig in the end.
YMMV.

 

[Kaisen]

You haven't told us which year, model, engine, etc, but we can assume it's a lf sprung Excursion (2000-2004), and probably a 7.3L Powerstroke Diesel (2000-2003), correct?
The 2005s (coil sprung) will run 34s (and larger) with no lift or trimming required, and the leaf sprung rigs like the F350 'X-code' front springs to clear 34s or so. Since some of the rubbing occurs at the bumper, whatever new bumper you choose may play a role. Maybe choose the bumper first? If you're seeking articulation, I would think new springs that were designed for flex would be better than adding leafs of F350 parts. You can always add back load capacity with your air bags. Consider air bags in the front too, they make kits originally meant for snow plows and they're bolt-on plug-n-play. Long-travel shocks and/or dual front shocks would help on washboards. If the budget allows, do Kings. At least in the front.

There is no way I'd ever run 34" x 8.25" tires on a heavy Excursion, but my position on the skinny-tire fad is well documented here. An Excursion was engineered for a wider tire (265mm standard) and has enough wheel well to handle even much wider tires. Think safety first, and skip the skinnies. Just my two cents.

Will you be relocating the spare?

If you're doing the diesel thing, just remember that the payload was quite limited (depending on year) and engineering the tire/spring/shock system to build back the payload to your needs is an important piece to safe high speed travel.

Keep us in the loop on your new project.

 

[ujoint]

The Excursions never got the 05/up coil front suspension. They stayed leaf with a Dana 50 thru the entire production run. One thing to consider is that these rigs are HEAVY! A normal build up with 35's or so will be pushing 10K. And make sure the rear springs (if you choose to change them) need to be Excursion specific. F series springs aren't strong enough.

Or you could just build a van and have much more interior room

 

[Kaisen]

Sorry, I was thinking Super Duty and not Excursion when I mentioned the coil spring front

 

[Rovertrader]

Hey Chris, had a Quigley a while back, and enjoyed it, but like the ergonomics of SD/X better, sorry.

I had an '05 Excursion (leafs) a few years ago, loved it (different application, and mostly used by the wife, who also enjoyed it), and it was a V-10, which this one is as well, but is an '00 w/ 115k one owner heavily maintained miles- exc condition!! I realize the advantages of diesels- had many many of them, and still do in my Rovers. But as stated above, very pricey, or beat to snot, and sometimes both. The 6.8 is fine for me, and the savings will buy a zillion gallons of petrol.

I like the tall/skinny, but agree the 8.25s may be a bit too thin. However, the load capacity is more than adequate, hence my initial thoughts. I prefer the 285 width, and Toyo has a good selection in said size if bigger wheels are used. Need to sort the springs/axles/bumper mess out first. I may consider the coil spring/axle swap, but really don't want to get into such a heavy build- shoulder replacement last Dec... Although, this may end up the best decision, and the gain of a D-60 is nice as well. Yukon has a nice hub upgrade too for the 60.

Spare is going outside, using the Tiregate HG series, which I have had on other trucks as well- decent solution.

It shouldn't be so difficult to just build what the factory should have offered to start with- a decent family mover with lots of room, a decent ride, and plenty of load capacity. I realize the average person never uses their rigs to anywhere near capacity, but at least with the SD trucks, you can find specs to match your application- why not on the X?

 

[BushHead]

Hey Dale,

I've been debating this since I got my X a few years ago. The general idea seems to be V codes on the front unless you go with a heavier front bumper with winch then X codes. For the back most seem to recommend modified b codes (overload pack removed) with f350 block replacing stock block for level ride.

From what I gather this gives around 2" of lift. With that you get f250 4wd shocks for the front and stay with the X 4wd shocks in the back (pick a quality brand here.). All that said I have yet to do anything and would love to here what you end up with. I have a 01 with a V-10 as well, and with 100k and only 4 grand I couldn't justify the nearly 20k for a diesel either. I replaced all the coils and coil packs when I got it and Have had zero issues. One thing of note, I noticed quite abit of brake fade in the mountains so I did upgrade the the HD SD slotted rotors in the front which made a huge difference.

I hope this helps, like I've said I've been reading for years but have yet to pull the trigger myself let me know how it works


Matt

 

[gavan]

And make sure the rear springs (if you choose to change them) need to be Excursion specific. F series springs aren't strong enough.

This is not correct.

F series springs are more than strong enough, but they are a different spring rate. F series springs are ~350 lb/inch, Ex are 410 lb/inch. This is mainly because Ford tired to make the suspension lower, so they used a higher spring rate to help with the sagging. They also thought they could get away without a rear sway bar in the early EXs because of the higher rates.

"B" code stock F series rear springs are more than strong enough to hold up an EX. They can hold up a 10k loaded pickup truck all day long, no issues with holding up an Ex. They are a little softer, and I would recommend a sway bar, but they are not "weak" by any stretch.

Modified "b" code springs add a little more arch with the Ex springs so you can run a shorter block, but lots of people run non modified B code springs and the taller F series block.

I have been running stock, then modified B code F series springs in the back of my Ex for years with 50+k miles, many of them towing a 10k or 12k trailer, and I have had absolutely no issues with the springs.

V/Modified B code springs will get you about 2.5 inches of "lift". I am running V/modified B code springs with 285/70r19.5s with a little rubbing on full lock which I am fine with. Inch conversion to that is about 34.5x11.

I have since taken off the trim rings

A couple things to think about with 34+ tires:

1. Any more height than a v/modified B you really need to start thinking about a track bar relocation or adjustable track bar
2. I can really feel the lack of power, especially towing. I have a manual transmission, so that helps with the heat, but I am thinking of regearing to 4.10 or 4.30 to get some power back.

 

[bjm206]

If you know the weight range you will be running at on each axle, your desired ride height, etc. then Deaver (or other good spring builder) can really optimize suspension performance. That being said there is a lot of knowledge out there about how use the Ford parts catalog to make a good Ex suspension particularly if your keeping the lift around 2".

8.25R-16s even aired down correctly are probably going struggle in soft sand with a loaded Ex.

 

[Rovertrader]

gavan- what tires are you running, and wheels as well? I ran that setup on a previous F-250 (using Rickson wheels) and loved it!! Not planning on towing as much this go around, but I suppose the 70 series sidewall would work for air down/sand... I may regear, and if I do, would add lockers as well, at least the rear. Of course this starts the whole D-50/60 front axle issue too?! Trying to stay focussed on the objective, and not waste a lot of unnecessary dollars/height.

Matt- You have been holding out on me buddy ;-) Didn't know you had an Ex too!! A good friend got over 200k on his original coils/coil pack, so not too worried there. The maintenance has been thorough on mine, so optimistic.

bjm206- I like the Deavers for sure, and may go that route. Just finding folks opinion and what works. Thanks

Anybody running the Procomp 4"/2.5" setup? That would be the max height I would prefer- allowing 35s. I had 37's on my '12 F-250 and the previous PW, but not worth the cost, or added height for this build.

Thanks all!! Please keep the info coming, especially those driving same and what works first hand!

 

[gavan]

gavan- what tires are you running, and wheels as well? I ran that setup on a previous F-250 (using Rickson wheels) and loved it!! Not planning on towing as much this go around, but I suppose the 70 series sidewall would work for air down/sand... I may regear, and if I do, would add lockers as well, at least the rear. Of course this starts the whole D-50/60 front axle issue too?! Trying to stay focussed on the objective, and not waste a lot of unnecessary dollars/height.

Michelin XDE2+ on Ricksons. Works well, but I never air the Ex down for fear of ripping off the beads. 19.5s do not have much in the way of bead retention. I would never use them for heavy off road.

If you plan on wheeling it, especially with bigger tires and/or lockers, I would look for a D60 first before putting any money into the axles.

Ford springs are cheap and good, and good start. My experience with running a bunch of custom springs, deaver, alcans, etc., and aftermarket stuff, superlift, BDS, black diamond, rough country... My Excursion seems to ride as good on Ford springs as anything I have been in on custom springs or aftermarket springs. Of course the downside is limited height availability.

 

[Rovertrader]

The goal is as stated initially- predominantly highway miles with tons of gear, a family of four, and off road consisting of gravel/graded forest service roads- no real wheeling pre se. However, need to address the obvious insufficiency of the stock suspension, and the capability to hit the occasional beach, ie: OBX of NC. The other likely scenario is turning the beast around on said single track remote access lane- hence potential locker/s and a winch as well as decent tires. I have been doing this type of travel a very long time, and know it isn't the 99% of use to prepare for, but the odd 'what if', especially with a family.

As an example, imagine the Alcan Hwy or the route to New Foundland through Labrador- hundreds of miles of wash boards, and no fuel stops/service/parts/etc... Not doing the Rubicon, but likely Colorado trails like Alpine Loop, Engineer Pass, etc. Hope this helps paint a picture, and again- thanks for all the help, and please continue.

I am not sure I understand the rear spring issue if going with stock F-250/350 springs- is it just the helper spring that is an issue, and if so, why/how? The worst part of any build is buying bits that don't work, and I want to prevent same- not to mention the time and effort.

 

[bjm206]

The F-250/350 OEM rear spring codes can be optionally equipped with overload springs that are mounted on top of the normal spring pack. These overload springs are not compatible with the Excursion rear chassis design and will cause damage when compressed if used. The overloads are easy to remove if you accidentally get a set of OEM springs with them.

 

[Rovertrader]

May go the Procomp route, 4" front with new spring pack, and 2" rear w/ add a leaf. Then likely add air bags. Should be adequate for intended purpose.

And for grins and giggles, got a small microwave at Costco for the rear build out- can you say quick and easy popcorn?? While under way to boot...

 

[TKSC01]

Just my 2cents......

Hello-It sounds like our builds are going to be very similar. I have a 2000 Excursion with the 5.4L motor. I wanted the 7.3 because I had one in the past but they are hard to fine and expensive. And in truth loud, when we wheeled it through AZ it was a little noisy for the family-wife and two little girls-so I went gas this time since my goal is to cross the arctic circle in Alaska gas will not gel in those temps. I scrapped the Dana 50 upfront for a Dana 60 out of a 2002 Ford F350 DRW truck, its much stronger then the 50 and since I wont be rock crawling it is fine. I didn't want a lift so I opted for "X" code springs out of an F350. They are the heavier Diesel springs the truck gained about 2" up front and the ride is now solid. I am going to put in a 12K LBS. Winch and bumper so I wanted heavier springs. I am also going a little bigger on tire size with Michelin XML 38" because you can get them under the truck with now lift just flares. I am in love with the "Arctic truck" look of big tires small lift. Also heavier tires and wheels will lower the center of gravity as well, I am in the middle of building a roof rack that will span the entire truck for my fluids, gas water etc and a roof rack.