Lead acid batteries inside a Van

[Heloflyboy]

I have a van conversion and want to run two deep cycle batteries to power my inverter. I currently have two deep cycle batteries from my boat and am wondering if it is a bad idea to put them inside van. I know it would be better to have gel cells but I can not afford to spend $400 on those right now. The van is a diesel and currently has two batteries and not much space to install any more,so I figured under a cabinet would probably work. Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[unseenone]

In my opinion, they do not belong inside your van. If you really want to use them, then they should be in a sealed and vented battery box. That box / batteries need to be seriously fastened down and the batteries secured to the vehicle. It would be no fun to be on the receiving end of a battery in an accident.

Even AGM's can vent, but it would be a far better option, rather than spend the big bucks for Gels.

 

[zelatore]

Technically yes, it's a bad idea. But as unseen above said, as long as they are well secured (I'm guessing these are probably group 31s, so that's about 70 lbs ea to hold down in an accident or just panic braking), a installed in sealed acid proof container, and that container is vented outside, then you could do it.

BTW, I'd skip the gel and go for AGM.

 

[Cole]

FWIW, There are dozens, probably hundreds of types of cars that had the stock battery installed in the cab. Most of those are under the front or rear seats.

 

[zelatore]

FWIW, There are dozens, probably hundreds of types of cars that had the stock battery installed in the cab. Most of those are under the front or rear seats.

True. Though I think you're mostly looking at 60s and 70s there. And it seems like they were often prone to rotting away the battery trays. Of course, most cars from that era suffered from the tin worm.

It can certainly be done. Heck, I just put a group 31 AGM in the back of my service van to power a small inverter to charge power tools. It's a long way from the seats, but it's still technically in the passenger compartment since it's just one big box.

 

[Cole]

True. Though I think you're mostly looking at 60s and 70s there. And it seems like they were often prone to rotting away the battery trays. Of course, most cars from that era suffered from the tin worm.
.

Nope. Plenty of modern cars still have the battery under the seats.

A few I know of off the top of my head, Mercedes Sprinter has the second battery under the passenger seat, VW Eurovan has it under the drivers seat, Porsche Cayenne has up to two batteries, one under the drivers seat, one under the rear cargo floor. Porsche 928s (last one was 1995) had it under the rear floor. Many BMWs of all eras, many VW, many Audi and. Mercedes, some GM cars like the Aurora, just the ones I know of without doing a search.

 

[Tony LEE]

Difference might be that those batteries under the seat either have a small vent tube that vents any fumes down through the floor, or they are "sealed" type, and that engine alternators rarely charge a start battery to anywhere near the gassing stage.

 

[Joe917]

If you go with wet led acid batteries inside the vehicle build a battery box and vent it properly. Hydrogen gas is highly explosive. Venting is not difficult but does require more than a simple pipe. An excellent vent procedure can be found at : http://www.bdbatteries.com/hydrogenventing.php
AGM's only vent when improperly charged and are very pricey, golf cart batteries are the most cost effective by far.

 

[wrcsixeight]

If you want a 'Pro flooded battery inside the Van' goto "the Samba" forums, Specifically the Vanagon Subforums.

I had flooded batteries inside my van for a while, and still have the blistered paint where they spewed acid down the sides.

Perhaps on vehicles whose sole source of recharging is the alternator, there is less issue with hydrogen build up, but I would not recommend anybody who will be sitting inside the van while alternate charging sources are charging the batteries in the 80%+ range, do so.

Can't be good to breathe those fumes. Look at what they do to battery terminals.

 

[Cole]

Can't be good to breathe those fumes. Look at what they do to battery terminals.

Lead acid batteries out gas hydrogen when being overcharged. Hydrogen being the most common element in the universe. Also, breathable. But, pure hydrogen is lighter than air so rises rapidly. Unless horribly abused the outgas from overcharging will be tiny.

Normal air and moisture can cause corrosion in metal. Do you not want to breath air? It's not the outgas but rather a chemical reaction with the metal terminals that causes corrosion. Just like air with moisture in it causes rust in metal.


Just saying the perceived risks are very misunderstood and thus overblown.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Lead acid batteries out gas hydrogen when being overcharged. Hydrogen being the most common element in the universe. Also, breathable. But, pure hydrogen is lighter than air so rises rapidly. Unless horribly abused the outgas from overcharging will be tiny.

Normal air and moisture can cause corrosion in metal. Do you not want to breath air? It's not the outgas but rather a chemical reaction with the metal terminals that causes corrosion. Just like air with moisture in it causes rust in metal.


Just saying the perceived risks are very misunderstood and thus overblown.

You've obviously never smelled a battery charging, and your logic is extremely flawed.

FUlly charging requires bubbling of the electrolyte. I challenge you go go find a piece of lead or brass or Zinc, the common battery terminal materials, exposed to just air and water which has developed white and/ or green chalky corrosion.

The Side terminals on GM vehicles starting batteries are solely an attempt to get the battery terminals away from the gasses.

 

[Cole]

You've obviously never smelled a battery charging, and your logic is extremely flawed.

If you can smell your battery the case is likely broken/open and leaking. If its being over charged its only releasing hydrogen and oxygen. That is not the fault of the battery, that is a serious flaw in your system. Either the charging system or the method of hold down.

The rest of the information is based on chemistry. It's not my logic that is flawed. As pointed out above batteries inside cars is VERY common.

Batteries should of course be placed in a safe container and vented. But understand what is going on don't just make blanket unsupported statements about the dangers.

 

[Joe917]

Bottom Line: Wet cell deep cycle lead acid batteries need to have the electrolyte bubble to be fully charged and need to be equalized periodically. Both processes release a significant amount of hydrogen gas which is highly explosive. Acid corrosion is a separate issue. Secure your batteries. Vent your batteries. Maintain electrolyte levels with distilled water.

 

[wrcsixeight]

http://www.ranknfile-ue.org/h&s1298.html

Also, many battery recharging areas within plants are poorly ventilated. In this process, when explosive hydrogen gas is released, it bubbles up in the acid bath and lots of sulfuric acid mist may be generated. Based on our new cancer information, these battery-charging areas need to be very well ventilated, which will prevent both hydrogen gas and sulfuric acid mist buildup.

Sulfuric acid is widely used in car and truck storage batteries, and thus workers who manufacture, recycle or recharge batteries may be exposed to hazardous acid mists

Remind your employer that sulfuric acid mist is now considered a human cancer agent, and that it is necessary to reduce the level of exposure to be as low as reasonably possible

http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/msds/msds_l84.pdf

RESPIRATORY PROTECTION: None required under normal handling conditions. During battery formation
(high-rate charge condition), acid mist can be generated, which may cause respiratory irritation. If irritation
occurs, wear a respirator suitable for protection against acid mist.

Just google sulfuric acid mist, and each and every hit will mention lead acid battery charging, and likely cancer.

 

[Cole]

. Both processes release a significant amount of hydrogen gas which is highly explosive.

From what I have read so far on the topic these don't release a "significant amount" to ever reach the required "explosive" percentage of the surrounding air in a space the size of a car.

Especially since cars are not air tight.