Ok, Calling the Battery Experts

[Dendy Jarrett]

I ran across information on this battery today.

Noted: 5 pounds!!
720 Cranking Hours
Works well with trucks that have V8s

They are pricey, but wondering how these would work in A) my trailer where I have 2 extremely heavy 31 series Diehard Platinums and B) my truck, as I think I could fit two where I currently have 1 battery (they are small in footprint) thus giving me a dual-battery set up in a single battery slot.

Here is the link:
http://shop.antigravitybatteries.com/antigravity-batteries-ytx12-24/

Thoughts?
Thanks
Dendy

 

[digitaldelay]

I was looking at this site yesterday. Pricey, indeed, but I like the weight savings.

http://www.braillebattery.com/

I will have to check out the AntiGravity site, thanks!

Jason

 

[4RunAmok]

720 Cranking AMPS, but only 25 Amp hours.

For a Group 31 with 100 Amp hours of the same price or less, approx 65 pounds, you'd need 4 of these batteries (at almost $500 each) to equate the same storage capacity.

 

[BigSwede]

720 Cranking AMPS, but only 25 Amp hours.

For a Group 31 with 100 Amp hours of the same price or less, approx 65 pounds, you'd need 4 of these batteries (at almost $500 each) to equate the same storage capacity.

Not really true, my understanding is you can run down a LiFePO4 battery much further than an AGM without damage. A 100 ah AGM really only has 50 usable ah, although in a pinch you can take it down further than that. So in theory you would only need 2 of those to get the same usable ah as the AGM Group 31.

Here are some other choices:
http://store.starkpower.com/-12V-UltraEnergy-_c_22.html
120 ah for only $1,119!

They aren't really recommended for starting duty though (for reasons I don't fully understand), but would make an awesome house battery.

 

[Xterabl]

BigSwede, that vendor is quoting amp hours like this:
"25Ah (Pb Eq)"
It is 25Ah lead acid EQUIVALENT, so I believe this means it's probably only 10-13 "true" LiFePo4 amp hours.
I've noticed a couple other vendors doing this, so you need to be careful.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

This is the type of dialogue I am looking for. Understanding and knowledge goes a long way in this specific area where I hold the least understanding and knowledge. What I understand is I want to stay out 4-6 days without running out of battery and not having to ruin the peaceful solitude running my Honda Generator (even if it is pretty quiet).

D

 

[wrcsixeight]

I'm going to be waiting on the Sidelines of the Lithium battery game. The Price is the big negating factor for me. The weight, or size, not really an issue.

I figure these will have to come down at some point, and hopefully I can make my current batteries last until 50 amp hours of Lithium storage is about the same price as 100 Ah of AGM.

It is nice seeing more Lithium options available.

I bookmarked this a few months ago:
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tende...bs_auto_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0K6Z43NQVDAD9J45EBEA

Some sort of low voltage protection needs to be incorporated with the above so as to not draw it too low, which can destroy it the first time.

 

[Herbie]

For the fairly big difference in price, I'd invest instead in a decent solar array. I think for less money you could have a large enough group of panels to make your length-of-stay "indefinite" from an electrical perspective.

 

[robgendreau]

Wow. Lead acid equivalent; that's sort of deceptive. Amp hours are a pretty standard metric, no need to go all marketing on them.

But you can discharge LiPos further. Cells are usually 3.7v as I understand it, and at least in the RC world they don't discharge them below 3v. I've heard the general rule of thumb is you can discharge to 20% of capacity. If you look at charts of the discharge of these types, you'll see they drop off real fast at near that capacity. Usually the load balancing and charging/discharging circuity will incorporate a low voltage cutoff, or should.

I love LiPos for smaller stuff, and for their quick charging (as long as you don't get them to explode), but I don't see them as effective replacements for deep cycle AGMs in big capacities yet. Even though they should last longer. And BTW, be careful about transport. Even the USPS now requires special labeling and/or restrictions on shipping these, and airlines too. kablammo!

Maybe Tesla's got something in those patents they are releasing to public use that will get us better big deep cycle storage batteries....

Rob

 

[Expedition Ready]

What you need is a Yellow top deep cycle and a IBS system. This will allow you to run a Fridge/Freezer and Aux lighting for up to 4 days. The great thing about the IBS is if you should have your primary battery go bad you can start the engine from the aux battery with a push of a button. Not only that but for winching you can link the 2 batteries together. I have just installed one in my jeep and attended the Overland Expo for 4 days running my fridge in freezer mode. The readout shows how much battery life is left and warns you when it is getting low. Also with a deep cycle you can discharge to almost complete without damage to the battery. Hope this helps. I can post pics if need.

 

[BigSwede]

BigSwede, that vendor is quoting amp hours like this:
"25Ah (Pb Eq)"
It is 25Ah lead acid EQUIVALENT, so I believe this means it's probably only 10-13 "true" LiFePo4 amp hours.
I've noticed a couple other vendors doing this, so you need to be careful.

Hmmm, good catch. Although I am seeing the "equivalent" used for the starting batteries, not the deep cycle versions.

 

[Xterabl]

Ooops, yeah. I was looking at the OP's link.
The Starkpower batteries look pretty nice. I have also been looking at them.
Always, the question comes back: how to charge and maintain them properly and reliably.
For such an investment, I think the charge system needs to be fail-safe and idiot-proof...which adds to the overall cost.

 

[BigSwede]

The Ultrastart starting batteries are interesting. http://www.starkpower.com/spnews/starterbatteries/
They have a battery management system built in that would seem to allow it to work off of an alternator. And this "IQ Restart Technology is interesting too:

StarkPower’s “ULTRASTART” has the same features (cell balancing) as the “ULTRA” but with additional features. StarkPower’s “ULTRASTART” has a processor controlled Battery Management System (BMS) inside each case to monitor each cell to prevent over charging, over discharging (voltage draining too low) along with cell temperature monitoring. Should any of the cells reach outside of its allowable specifications, the terminal power will turn off. These are added performance and convenience features to prevent a battery from being damaged or in the event a battery is left unattended for a long time. These added features also prevent the battery from over-charging when attached to other charging equipment or charging failure. In the event a lower cut-off voltage is reach, the battery terminals will have 0V on them.

The battery needs to be “kick started” with a charger (using a StarkPower charger) that has a battery voltage on the terminals. That will turn ON the battery again and start taking a charge. Some charges need to sense the battery voltage first, thus will not turn on or take a charge. In the event over-charging condition is reached, the battery terminals will have 0V. Turning off the charger and letting the battery rest a couple minutes should allow the battery to turn ON again and operate.

In the “ULTRASTART” models, the processor controlled Battery Management System (BMS) has the ability to provide reserve engine start-up power when needed. At motorcycle rallies or gatherings, owners of heavily accessorized motorcycle often want to keep their radios or lights on when parked, possibly draining standard lead-acid batteries too much. The “ULTRASTART” automatically senses excess drainage status, shutting all accessories off, while maintaining sufficient reserve power to start the engine. This is known as StarkPower’s “IQ RESTART TECHNOLOGY”- Adequate reserve power is left in the battery, to automatically detect starting effort with a key cycle and allows users to start the engine again and not leaving you stranded or with the headache of calling for service or even needing to replace the battery. A significant advantage of the ‘ULTRASTART” technology and a major selling point is the “IQ Restart Technology”.

 

[BigSwede]

For the fairly big difference in price, I'd invest instead in a decent solar array. I think for less money you could have a large enough group of panels to make your length-of-stay "indefinite" from an electrical perspective.

That might work in California...in the Minnesota woods solar isn't that effective (even if we do have daylight to nearly 10PM right now).

 

[BigSwede]

I'm going to be waiting on the Sidelines of the Lithium battery game. The Price is the big negating factor for me. The weight, or size, not really an issue.

I figure these will have to come down at some point, and hopefully I can make my current batteries last until 50 amp hours of Lithium storage is about the same price as 100 Ah of AGM.

Actually I am looking forward a few years myself. I recently bought a Sears Platinum Group 31, and I figure by the time it is done the LiFePO4 will be more affordable and folks will have worked out the charging issues and such. I'm just trying to "jump start" the process.