Jeep plunges 450 feet off Colorado mountainside

[DaveInDenver]

If you’ve taken a concealed carry, SCUBA, motorcycle safety class, or gotten a vehicle safety/smog inspection (I have), you’ve used a privately accredited company. No, the companies would not be liable for accidents, as they aren’t in any other area. I’m not sure how the tiers would be divided, but a couple of guys could figure it out over a lunch. The top/advanced tier wouldn’t have to be all that high, as once you’ve driven a decent amount you know what your’re capable of and can make reasonable decisions.

I’m not in favor of a permit system, as it doesn’t do anything to increase competency, and tends to benefit those who plan trips years out rather than locals. If you live there and don’t draw a permit, you can’t use the trail you’ve driven for the last 30 years? It would make sense in a pressure/erosion situation, but that doesn’t seem to be the issue here.

I personally don't strongly disagree with your point about off highway licensing with respect to competency. However the problem is how is this determined and more it's not so much being competent but being aware, responsible and level headed. It's my experience that a fair amount of this is ego because reading about trips and looking at photos in the comfortable flat land of Texas (to stereotype, there's plenty of newcomers and locals new to 4x4 too) does not quite prepare a driver or passengers for shelf roads and exposure. It can be overwhelming no matter what licenses or training you have. Add perhaps group dynamics or peer pressure and you get bad decisions and mistakes.

 

[shade]

Texas

lol

 

[luthj]

I do have some co-workers from Texas. They seem to think a long wheelbase full sized pickup truck is the ideal off roading vehicle. I don't think a shelf road, switchbacks, or even an overgrown forest service road even crossed their minds...

Just like most Southeastern dwellers would never think about a narrow studded snow tire as a necessity. Folks in the far north think vehicle AC is a rarely used luxury. In the central flatlands of the USA, I see plenty of vehicles what would explode at the first mountain pass (either on the ascent or the descent).

Personally I think the injury and death rates are probably acceptable given the current usage of these roads.

 

[DaveInDenver]

lol

No one has called my stereotyping for the fact that the couple came from Montrose, Colorado, and were probably on their several dozenth trip in the San Juans... The spot they rolled is about one of the last places I would expect it happening, too.

 

[AbleGuy]

Oh

.....The spot they rolled is about one of the last places I would expect it happening, too.

Maybe that’s one of the problems we deal with....danger tends to present itself to you when you are least attentive to it’s possiblity.

(Kato attacking Insp. Closeau from ambush)

 

[shade]

No one has called my stereotyping for the fact that the couple came from Montrose, Colorado, and were probably on their several dozenth trip in the San Juans... The spot they rolled is about one of the last places I would expect it happening, too.

I was just thinking of the migratory hordes of Texans I typically see in the area. I can't blame them for heading to cooler country in the summer. I do the same.

 

[1stDeuce]

Just grab a back hoe, and make the trail head at the bottom of the mountain harder to pass, than the actual trail is. If you can make it to the trail, then you're GTG. If you need to be under 8'6", then put up a limbo pole at the entrance.

Been done on private mountain bike parks for years. A simple sign says ''if you skip this section, you don't belong on this trail''.

As I mentioned before, I'm pretty confident I could get a 2wd S10 blazer down the "difficult" section of black bear without issue. Generally, gatekeeper obstacles demand lockers, lift, big tires, or if you're lacking in those things, some skill as a driver.

That accounts nothing for attentiveness and situational awareness, which are the main problems I see here. People from places without cliffs and drops simply don't think about the consequences of a small mistake being HUGE.

No one has called my stereotyping for the fact that the couple came from Montrose, Colorado, and were probably on their several dozenth trip in the San Juans... The spot they rolled is about one of the last places I would expect it happening, too.

I must have missed your stereotyping, but it is certainly true that there was no technical reason for them to roll off the road where they did. It was either a (fairly long) moment of inattention, an equipment failure, or a medical issue. The place they went off was flat, level, and plenty wide.

Many of these trails have signs warning people that they are NOT a joke. People don't read. They don't listen either. And most seem to have little common sense these days...
You can't legislate a fix.
You can't make an easy trail difficult at the beginning to ensure people pay attention when they need to.
You can't fix this.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Oh


Maybe that’s one of the problems we deal with....danger tends to present itself to you when you are least attentive to it’s possiblity.

(Kato attacking Insp. Closeau from ambush)

Here's a follow-up post from the San Miguel County Sheriff. Not a great deal of detail but not a particularly steep or exposed section of trail and below tree line as well. All we can do is speculate without first hand from the couple but *probably* distracted and dropped a wheel or something similar. We all get complacent, start fumbling with a map or a radio mic. It could happen to anyone really.

 

[shade]

You can't legislate a fix.
You can't make an easy trail difficult at the beginning to ensure people pay attention when they need to.
You can't fix this.

Actually, if the goal is to prevent accidents, there's a very easy fix that's been used many times: closure. I'd rather see what others think may work before it comes to that.

This discussion is centered around ideas that still allow access. Data from traffic counts and accidents probably shows a steady increase in both - if that data doesn't exist, it wouldn't be difficult for it to be collected. That data could be used to promote closure under the banner of safety, even if the true motive was simply to remove another avenue to enjoy the area by vehicle. I doubt anyone here would support closure, but there are plenty of people that look at what we do as bad, harmful, or wrong, and they'll use any handy excuse to deny access.

 

[NevadaLover]

As I mentioned before, I'm pretty confident I could get a 2wd S10 blazer down the "difficult" section of black bear without issue. Generally, gatekeeper obstacles demand lockers, lift, big tires, or if you're lacking in those things, some skill as a driver.

That accounts nothing for attentiveness and situational awareness, which are the main problems I see here. People from places without cliffs and drops simply don't think about the consequences of a small mistake being HUGE.


I must have missed your stereotyping, but it is certainly true that there was no technical reason for them to roll off the road where they did. It was either a (fairly long) moment of inattention, an equipment failure, or a medical issue. The place they went off was flat, level, and plenty wide.

Many of these trails have signs warning people that they are NOT a joke. People don't read. They don't listen either. And most seem to have little common sense these days...
You can't legislate a fix.
You can't make an easy trail difficult at the beginning to ensure people pay attention when they need to.
You can't fix this.

Finally, someone who dares speak the truth! Common sense is a quickly dying trait in mankind, "stupid is as stupid does" so to speak, you can't protect everybody especially from themselves and that is what makes Darwin so correct in his theory, imagine if Darwin was alive in todays world!

Yet some people think they are going to find the answer, so they make snide little whiny comments about others not following their lead or daring to change the direction of the thread or having an opinon different from theirs and act as if they are a new MOD in the forum and you aren't allowed to move away from exactly what THEY want you to discuss!

Guess what, there is no perfect answer to this problem, or most other problems for that matter! So if you really think discussing this problem and ONLY this problem in this thread is going to solve anything I can only shake my head and wonder what world you live in, get out of the sun, but the shade isn't the only answer!!

 

[AbleGuy]

Yet some people think they are going to find the answer, so they make snide little whiny comments about others not following their lead or daring to change the direction of the thread or having an opinon different from theirs....

But then...

I have to say... that is the stupidest idea I have read in some time!....Nope, can't even give the slightest nod of agreeance to such an off the wall idea, that's as ignorant as these people who say "any activity involving danger should require a bond to insure them" !.....If it bothers you to know that people endanger themselves for the fun or thrill or whatever other reason then you need to stop using the internet...

So, I’m not really seeing the big distinction that clearly here...
Maybe it’s all just another day of this.....⬇

 

[AbleGuy]

Oh

Yet some people think they are going to find the answer, so they make snide little whiny comments about others not following their lead or daring to change the direction of the thread or having an opinon different from theirs and act as if they are a new MOD in the forum and you aren't allowed to move away from exactly what THEY want you to discuss!

Or maybe this?

The biggest problem with the portal lately is the fact that any discussion about any vehicle type brings 4 or 5 users into the discussion screaming "ford rules, ford rules"... and the immediate downplay of any and all brands other than ford, here you asked a question about 3 different trucks not including ford and the ford fanboys jump all over it screaming "ford rules ford rules", seems like pirate has invaded the portal and if you don't do as you're told by the fanboys then they just keep pushing "ford rules ford rules"..... gets old doesn't it?
Seems as though the mods turn a blind eye to the constant attempts at shoving ford down everyones throat and it keeps getting worse, might as well call this the ford portal anymore!

Just saying....


(To be fair though, I think that most of us wind up doing the same kind of thing here on the forum)

 

[NevadaLover]

Oh


Or maybe this?



Just saying....

Guilty... but at least I can admit the hypocrisy!

 

[billiebob]

but if you have no sense of where your tires are, stay home.

Actually, since I went from 10.50s to 7.50s and when I aim to crush a can on the road, I end up missing half the can.

 

[billiebob]

Guilty... but at least I can admit the hypocrisy!

hypocrisy ?? this the new normal