? - Voltage Regulation when Charging an LFP Battery

john61ct

Adventurer
Some of this voltage topic may not be specific to alternator charging, but for more general info.

Personally, my usual stop-charge voltage setting for charging LFP is 3.45Vpc, which for 4S "12V" packs = 13.8V max. Note that is usually at an amps rate of .2 - .3C (.3C = 30A charge current per 100AH bank size). At higher rates, to shorten ICE run-times, it is safe to go to 3.5Vpc / 14.0V.

Note even at the "low" max charge voltage, letting the charge source continue to "push" even low currents long **past** the endAmps point is over-charging, in the sense of reducing potential lifecycles.

At low charge rates, as with many solar setups, under say 0.2C, I reduce termination voltage down to 3.40Vpc / 13.6V.

If your charge rate is **very** low, below say 0.05C, or very variable above and below that ballpark, then you are in real danger of overcharging - even at that seemingly low voltage of 3.40Vpc / 13.6V. In fact, monitoring voltage while charging will not even be meaningful wrt SoC.

_____
There are times and reasons when you need to go to higher voltages for a while - poorly designed balancing gear with low balance current rates that require a (too-)high CV/Absorb voltage be held for a (too) long time, wiping out lost capacity from a so-called "memory effect".

And over the very many years you own your very expensive LFP bank, there may emerge hard proof that a change in charge profile will yield even more hundreds or even thousands of cycles.

TL;DR I would never let any charge source without user-custom adjustable voltage setpoints and Absorb Hold Time charge an LFP bank.

Furthermore, with LFP's crazy high CAR specs, you will either damage the alt / diodes or charge the bank at too high an amps rate, or both.

Adjustable current limiting is a must, and not by relying on too-thin a gauge of wire, or inaccurate diodes/resistors.

Also the ability to automatically derate the output current when the alt or its electronics start to get too hot.
 

shade

Well-known member
Thanks for the advice.

With my current plan, I can disconnect charge & load, but not regulate voltage. The LFP will get whatever the alternator delivers through the wiring & isolator. I'm not sure my truck's alternator will push the voltage that high when operating properly, but if its internal regulator failed, the battery could be damaged. Spending a little money up front to potentially add significant life to the battery makes sense.

I'll look into the Victron catalog to see if they have something similar to the Balmar MC-614 to add that capability. Victron is set to announce new DC-DC chargers this fall, and that could be part of the feature set. I'd rather keep it all VE, but there's nothing wrong with inserting a Balmar regulator between the charge disconnect and battery.
 
Last edited:

luthj

Engineer In Residence
What voltage does your alternator run? If its in the acceptable bulk range for lithium, I wouldn't waste the cost or complexity of external control. Thats one of the biggest advantages of lithium, other than changes in charge rate, they will happily charge to the 80-90% range on 13.65-14.2V.
 
Last edited:

shade

Well-known member
What voltage does your alternator run? If its in the acceptable bulk range for lithium, I wouldn't waste the case or complexity of external control. Thats one of the biggest advantages of lithium, other than changes in charge rate, they will happily charge to the 80-90% range on 13.65-14.2V.
I'll check it in a minute once the engine bay cools a little more.

I think both the external and internal BMS can disconnect at a manually set voltage, so maybe a wonky alternator isn't so much of a concern. I'm still checking on an upgrade to one that can make use of an external regulator, though.
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
Almost any alternator can be converted to external regulator with some light soldering. The only issue is the vehicles alternator monitoring or control (some use a LINbus to send commands). If your vehicle uses a older style D+ signal wire (analog control), you can usually install an external regulator without issue. Sterling and Balmar both make great external control units with configurable setpoints.
 

shade

Well-known member
Almost any alternator can be converted to external regulator with some light soldering. The only issue is the vehicles alternator monitoring or control (some use a LINbus to send commands). If your vehicle uses a older style D+ signal wire (analog control), you can usually install an external regulator without issue. Sterling and Balmar both make great external control units with configurable setpoints.
That's what I'm considering. I think the local alternator/generator/starter shop might be worth a visit.
 

luthj

Engineer In Residence
If you are comfortable with a soldering iron, adding an external regulator piggyback to your existing one is doable with the sterling unit. You basically test your alternator to see if its negative or positive control field. Run 2 wires from the field control out of the case, and connect to the controller. Then the controller gets ground, B+ output sense, and a temperature probe. At that point you still have your factory regulator working. When the voltage needs to be higher, the controller simply adds extra field current.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
You can go lower in voltage, but higher than 3.5Vpc will definitely impact longevity, as will keeping Absorb voltage input as current acceptance keeps dropping to 0A, even at 3.4Vpc.

Many BMS do not start balancing until 3.55Vpc, and once imbalances emerge can take **days** at that high V to correct.

Other balancing gear / methods give much better flexibility.

Silly to just restrict yourself to Victron, why would you do that?

Below 3.3Vpc you're losing a fair bit of bank capacity

Also best to keep current rate below 0.3C for longevity, but below 0.01 it becomes very difficult to avoid overcharging.

Bottom line, if you want thousands of life cycles, precision controls are required.

A Sterling BB series DCDC is an alternative to retrofitting the alternator, can be used to "front-end" the LFP charge buss for all energy sources, not just the alt.

About 50A per unit, can be stacked.
 

shade

Well-known member
Silly to just restrict yourself to Victron, why would you do that?
I'd prefer to have an integrated system that's easier to manage, but I'm not absolutely ruling out other brands. Victron has a 100A solution, but it's a bit much at $1100.

Looks like 60A is their limit.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
I'd prefer to have an integrated system that's easier to manage, but I'm not absolutely ruling out other brands. Victron has a 100A solution, but it's a bit much at $1100.

Looks like 60A is their limit.
The max (input?) rating is not = max continuous output, and design / location for heat dissipation is important.

As with alternators.

LFP's high CAR can literally blow up an alt with stock VR, any overtemp protection usually just in effect halts charging completely.
 

shade

Well-known member
What about a Sterling Alternator-Battery Charger? That's really what I want, after all.


Nevermind. I scanned the manual, and it looks like the parameters are all canned, with little manual control past the battery type.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
190,077
Messages
2,923,768
Members
233,330
Latest member
flipstick
Top