Winch fairlead for synthetic cable

[CharlieNorth]

As I am building my 3.8 Mivec Pajero I am in the process of swapping my Ramsey REP 8000 over to it. This was originally installed on my Gen 1 Montero turbo in '89. It was used allot back then for many years.
In 2007 the winch and bracket were transferred to my '95 Montero SR, not really used in the woods much but as a tool when needed.
And now this winch and mount are being swapped onto my Pajero. Here are a few shots of this salty old winch when being transferred to the SR 14 years back.

At this time I am swapping the original cable out for synthetic. As can be seen the original 32 YO fairlead is ready for replacement. I have a new roller fairlead ready to weld onto the bracket. But here is my true question, I do not see rollers being used with synthetic cable. What is the tech here? Am I wrong staying with rollers? Should I change to a plastic or aluminum guide?

 

[jeepers29]

You need a hawse fairlead.

 

[CharlieNorth]

I can do that, I do have a curiosity why the rollers are not used with synthetic?

 

[DaveInDenver]

I can do that, I do have a curiosity why the rollers are not used with synthetic?

Rollers can be used with synthetic. The concern is the rope can work itself into the corners where the vertical rollers overlap the horizontal ones if you direct the line too far off the center into the corners. They use rollers on ships and for industrial applications with synthetic after all. There is a slight benefit to rollers in that they have less friction option when the rope is running over it than a hawse.

There's some difference in roller fairleads, too, where the gap is tighter in some than others and the amount of roller overlap is large enough to require the rope to be pulled directly up or down to even potentially work itself sideways. I run a Warn roller with Viking Delrin rollers because way back when I went synthetic the hawse fairleads didn't fit ARB bumpers very cleanly.

Now offset hawse designs exist that fit nicer, keeping the rope centered in the bumper opening and pulling off the drum in the right place. But either way, I've never had the rope work itself down into the gap in normal kinds of pulls. If I was starting over now I'm not sure which way I'd go. Probably stick with Delrin rollers to be honest since ARB tucks the fairlead back to protect it and the front face of the bumper is plenty rigid.

Also realize that not all hawse fairleads are equal. A badly machined hawse might be harder in wear-and-tear than the risk of the rope working itself into the corners.

If you do use rollers they can be steel but they have to be clean and smooth. So it's not really good to re-use rollers if they've been used with steel already since they may have nicks or embedded slivers from the old steel rope that can cut the synthetic rope. Clean them up or if you're not sure new ones are safe. The reason I went Delrin was that if you hit a steel roller on a rock it might get a nick that could be an issue with the synthetic. If your fairlead is exposed or not well supported a hawse might be a better option.

 

[CharlieNorth]

I do have a block of Delrin here I intend to make a hawse from. I did however just buy an inexpensive aluminum Hawse, might be crap too.
When I first built my winch mount I welded the roller set onto the mount, I am changing to a bolt on setup now such that I can change things around in the future.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I do have a block of Delrin here I intend to make a hawse from. I did however just buy an inexpensive aluminum Hawse, might be crap too.
When I first built my winch mount I welded the roller set onto the mount, I am changing to a bolt on setup now such that I can change things around in the future.

Does Delrin have a sufficiently high melt temperature to be used as a hawse?

 

[CharlieNorth]

It is a very good bearing material withstanding a moderately wide temperature range. The block I bought might actually be HDPE which I am now working with more often than Derin. My concern which might be unfound is static buildup with plastic sliding over plastic.
10-15 years ago if anyone told me I would be using a synsthetic rope on a winch that was near 1 To 1 dimensionally to steel I would not have believed it.

 

[Alloy]

Does Delrin have a sufficiently high melt temperature to be used as a hawse?

It will weld to syn rope.

My first choice for a syn rope fair lead or rollers is stainless steel, second is aluminum. ***Edit. . . . rollers with delrin bearings

Rollers are 10x better than a fair lead.

Any type of abrasion ruins syn rope.

Allowing syn to cross wrap on the drum is as bad for syn as it is for steel wire.

I'd never use bare (galv or plated OK) steel as I've seen what wrapping it steel drums and capstans do to it.

 

[Howard70]

Another vote for new, clean, smooth rollers. I've used Warn 16ti winches with synthetic cable on two different EarthCruisers. The line on the winch with rollers wore much better than the line on the winch with the hawser fairlead. That hawser fairlead was polished aluminum & produced by Warn.

On our current truck we have hawser fairleads on both the front and rear winches. I'd like to change them to roller fairleads, but there are some space issues regarding a semi-custom bicycle rack delaying the switch in the front and I haven't decided what type of roller fairlead to use for the rear. That winch gets a lot more dust, dirt, mud and gravel than the one on the front and a hawser fairlead is definitely easier to clean before use that a roller. With synthetic line, I've found cleaning everything up before a pull really reduces wear on the line.

Howard

 

[CharlieNorth]

Thank you,
Myself, I prefer rollers even with no experience with the new cable. I will make this roller set bolt on. This will allow me options as I go forwards if I want to machine up my own rollers or live with what I end up. My original rollers are end of life and I am glad to have them gone.
I just came up from the shop from freshening the gearset in the winch. A few hours ago I could not freewheel the gear train. It is sweet and smooth now.

 

[Alloy]

Another vote for new, clean, smooth rollers. I've used Warn 16ti winches with synthetic cable on two different EarthCruisers. The line on the winch with rollers wore much better than the line on the winch with the hawser fairlead. That hawser fairlead was polished aluminum & produced by Warn.

On our current truck we have hawser fairleads on both the front and rear winches. I'd like to change them to roller fairleads, but there are some space issues regarding a semi-custom bicycle rack delaying the switch in the front and I haven't decided what type of roller fairlead to use for the rear. That winch gets a lot more dust, dirt, mud and gravel than the one on the front and a hawser fairlead is definitely easier to clean before use that a roller. With synthetic line, I've found cleaning everything up before a pull really reduces wear on the line.

Howard

Keeping the syn line coverd or removing it from the drum when not in use to prevent dirt/sand from entering it will help as well.

I see people wrap their recover straps/ropes around the bumper and I wonder if they are know what dirt/sand will do to the line.

 

[CharlieNorth]

Keeping the syn line covered or removing it from the drum when not in use to prevent dirt/sand from entering it will help as well.

I see people wrap their recover straps/ropes around the bumper and I wonder if they are know what dirt/sand will do to the line.

Good thought, For the most part mine is tucked away pretty well.
But this does not mean it does not get road spray. There is a guard from the bumper back under the transmission but I have considered a snap over cover closing off the rollers.

 

[greengreer]

Tools not jewels. You'd be surprised at how well these uhmwpe lines last getting drug through the mud on a daily basis. Easy to repair in the field if the do break. I'd bet for most recreational use UV degradation is much more of a concern. Hawse or roller, haven't had any trouble with either.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Tools not jewels. You'd be surprised at how well these uhmwpe lines last getting drug through the mud on a daily basis. Easy to repair in the field if the do break. I'd bet for most recreational use UV degradation is much more of a concern. Hawse or roller, haven't had any trouble with either.

Totally agree, things are made to be used. You do your best to maintain and protect but use them regardless!

FWIW Dyneema has good UV resistance. It'll bleach but that's not directly indicative of the fibers weakening. It's of course not as resistant to the Sun as steel but then again it doesn't rust. Everything has an Achilles heel I suppose.

The concern IMO is abrasion in use but probably the biggest reason for synthetic winch line is ruined is heat. The compact planetary gear winches we all use generate a lot of heat that gets spread through the drum. The bottom layer especially, we probably all subject at least that to excessive heat.

https://dynamica-ropes.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/CIS-YA102-Ultraviolet-exposure-of-UHMWPE-fiber-from-DSM-Dyneema.pdf

 

[Alloy]

Tools not jewels. You'd be surprised at how well these uhmwpe lines last getting drug through the mud on a daily basis. Easy to repair in the field if the do break. I'd bet for most recreational use UV degradation is much more of a concern. Hawse or roller, haven't had any trouble with either.

A line week from abrasion (sand, friction& iron oxide) will keep breaking unless the week secion is removed. We'd tie knots but this screwed up the spooling on the drum.

After learning (1st ones lasted less than a month) how fast abrasions kills synthetic we (those of us who cared) did treat them like jewelry becsue we didn't want to go back to steel.

Never found UV to be an issue.

Being a marine use our syn lines were always wet so heat wasn't an issue. Might be worth a try soaking the line with water before use.