Nothing here on the R2 reveal?

Sooper Camper

Adventurer
It'll be cool to watch as they come to market, they are working towards cars with a lot of real world practicality, and clever user experience features. For example, on the R2 the rear side windows pop open and the rear hatch window rolls down. As someone who's had both features on many vehicles, but never BOTH features on the SAME vehicle, I LOVE that. it seems pretty apparent they are employing enthusiasts.
 

carleton

Active member
I don't know....I bought a little stock in them after seeing at Overland Expo, just feel like they are really creating a good product.
However, about a month ago all the news about Rivian was that they were burning so much cash (and slowing sales), that folks were worried they weren't going to survive.

I hope they can pull this off, since their vehicles look awesome (and actually practical).
 

lucilius

Active member
I thought the R3 looked a little Lada Niva from the rear quarter panel.

Rivian designers seem to be people who actual like to do stuff outdoors.

View attachment 823989
I must say that is probably the coolest looking car I've seen in a while, hats off to the designers. While not rel to the EV market, which is in turn not at the moment so relevant to those living in a colder/darker locations up north, I would place an order today if they would build that little green car with a small diesel capable of 30-40mpg....heck, I'd place that order in a heartbeat, maybe for two. That's exactly the sort of vehicle I need for my/my kids daily driver.
 
I don't know....I bought a little stock in them after seeing at Overland Expo, just feel like they are really creating a good product.
However, about a month ago all the news about Rivian was that they were burning so much cash (and slowing sales), that folks were worried they weren't going to survive.

I hope they can pull this off, since their vehicles look awesome (and actually practical).
Don’t panic. Not nearly the drama Tesla went through.

Saw them at OEX Flagstaff in 2019(?). Still got the patch on the wall of my camper.
 
I must say that is probably the coolest looking car I've seen in a while, hats off to the designers. While not rel to the EV market, which is in turn not at the moment so relevant to those living in a colder/darker locations up north, I would place an order today if they would build that little green car with a small diesel capable of 30-40mpg....heck, I'd place that order in a heartbeat, maybe for two. That's exactly the sort of vehicle I need for my/my kids daily driver.
Norway has an 82% take rate on EVs. Gets a bit chilly there.

Diesel passenger cars are pretty much over. The Prius was ending the Golf TDi before VW got caught cheating.

My first car was a diesel Rabbit. Fond memories.

 

lucilius

Active member
It's nearly incomparable. 1. Most of Norway south of Troms/Finnmark isn't really that cold due to proximity to a non-freezing ocean and gulf current, though if you are from Florida or similar it will of course seem chilly. 2. Norway has passenger rail, lots of it. It is clean, timely and most of all, safe & reliable 3. Most Norwegian EV's are in/very near to cities which is where almost everyone lives. 4. Norway has tons of hydro power with which they generate enormous amounts of 24/7/365 electricity. They can circumvent the challenges with current wind & solar 5. Norway has an enormous petroleum industry which funds infrastructure development and a responsible&functional government to boot, and they know how to build and plan infrastructure. 6. Norway is relatively tiny, about the size of Montana with 5.5m people (~1/2 of NYC) and culturally more homogeneous, or let us just say better able to get along well enough be sensible and functional when it comes to common sense decision-making. 7. Norway is immensely and intelligently wealthy, they more or less operate "in the black" and have (largely oil and gas industry-funded) sovereign wealth fund(s) that is the envy of the world. That plus the ability to think and act strategically allows them to plan for the future. The US is substantially different: huge and diverse in most every respect (climate, culture, etc.). We seem to be going in the opposite direction in key respects, and in ways that far transcend the remarkable ability of recreational right/left political angst to stifle most meaningful accomplishments. Norway's not perfect of course but the US, with its geography, sheer size and lack of common culture & discipline, etc., simply lacks the essential infrastructure, resources and most importantly decision-making to achieve what Norway is able to do with relative ease. There are a lot of arguments for and against EV's and to each his own, but IMO, for purposes other than short-range commuting for folks with their own heated garages and charging stations, EV's are really not now a good solution in the north, esp. rural and mountainous regions of the US. I would say let them grow in popularity and evolve in other parts of the country (Phoenix & solar power come to mind) and if&when it makes sense and the infrastructure is developed & built, they might make better sense up here. Personally, I'm betting on smart American engineers to eventually achieve breakthroughs in hydrogen or other technologies that are even more effective. For the next decade, unless I learn there are a hundred or so US nuke power plants already in the works to make electricity, I think diesel makes more sense than gas or EV.
 
It's nearly incomparable. 1. Most of Norway south of Troms/Finnmark isn't really that cold due to proximity to a non-freezing ocean and gulf current, though if you are from Florida or similar it will of course seem chilly. 2. Norway has passenger rail, lots of it. It is clean, timely and most of all, safe & reliable 3. Most Norwegian EV's are in/very near to cities which is where almost everyone lives. 4. Norway has tons of hydro power with which they generate enormous amounts of 24/7/365 electricity. They can circumvent the challenges with current wind & solar 5. Norway has an enormous petroleum industry which funds infrastructure development and a responsible&functional government to boot, and they know how to build and plan infrastructure. 6. Norway is relatively tiny, about the size of Montana with 5.5m people (~1/2 of NYC) and culturally more homogeneous, or let us just say better able to get along well enough be sensible and functional when it comes to common sense decision-making. 7. Norway is immensely and intelligently wealthy, they more or less operate "in the black" and have (largely oil and gas industry-funded) sovereign wealth fund(s) that is the envy of the world. That plus the ability to think and act strategically allows them to plan for the future. The US is substantially different: huge and diverse in most every respect (climate, culture, etc.). We seem to be going in the opposite direction in key respects, and in ways that far transcend the remarkable ability of recreational right/left political angst to stifle most meaningful accomplishments. Norway's not perfect of course but the US, with its geography, sheer size and lack of common culture & discipline, etc., simply lacks the essential infrastructure, resources and most importantly decision-making to achieve what Norway is able to do with relative ease. There are a lot of arguments for and against EV's and to each his own, but IMO, for purposes other than short-range commuting for folks with their own heated garages and charging stations, EV's are really not now a good solution in the north, esp. rural and mountainous regions of the US. I would say let them grow in popularity and evolve in other parts of the country (Phoenix & solar power come to mind) and if&when it makes sense and the infrastructure is developed & built, they might make better sense up here. Personally, I'm betting on smart American engineers to eventually achieve breakthroughs in hydrogen or other technologies that are even more effective. For the next decade, unless I learn there are a hundred or so US nuke power plants already in the works to make electricity, I think diesel makes more sense than gas or EV.
Neat. I must be doing it wrong.
 

epyonxero

Member
It's nearly incomparable. 1. Most of Norway south of Troms/Finnmark isn't really that cold due to proximity to a non-freezing ocean and gulf current, though if you are from Florida or similar it will of course seem chilly. 2. Norway has passenger rail, lots of it. It is clean, timely and most of all, safe & reliable 3. Most Norwegian EV's are in/very near to cities which is where almost everyone lives. 4. Norway has tons of hydro power with which they generate enormous amounts of 24/7/365 electricity. They can circumvent the challenges with current wind & solar 5. Norway has an enormous petroleum industry which funds infrastructure development and a responsible&functional government to boot, and they know how to build and plan infrastructure. 6. Norway is relatively tiny, about the size of Montana with 5.5m people (~1/2 of NYC) and culturally more homogeneous, or let us just say better able to get along well enough be sensible and functional when it comes to common sense decision-making. 7. Norway is immensely and intelligently wealthy, they more or less operate "in the black" and have (largely oil and gas industry-funded) sovereign wealth fund(s) that is the envy of the world. That plus the ability to think and act strategically allows them to plan for the future. The US is substantially different: huge and diverse in most every respect (climate, culture, etc.). We seem to be going in the opposite direction in key respects, and in ways that far transcend the remarkable ability of recreational right/left political angst to stifle most meaningful accomplishments. Norway's not perfect of course but the US, with its geography, sheer size and lack of common culture & discipline, etc., simply lacks the essential infrastructure, resources and most importantly decision-making to achieve what Norway is able to do with relative ease. There are a lot of arguments for and against EV's and to each his own, but IMO, for purposes other than short-range commuting for folks with their own heated garages and charging stations, EV's are really not now a good solution in the north, esp. rural and mountainous regions of the US. I would say let them grow in popularity and evolve in other parts of the country (Phoenix & solar power come to mind) and if&when it makes sense and the infrastructure is developed & built, they might make better sense up here. Personally, I'm betting on smart American engineers to eventually achieve breakthroughs in hydrogen or other technologies that are even more effective. For the next decade, unless I learn there are a hundred or so US nuke power plants already in the works to make electricity, I think diesel makes more sense than gas or EV.
You forgot one huge reason why EVs are so popular in Norway: taxes
Anyone who wants to buy a new ICE car in Norway has to pay 25% VAT on top of the purchase price PLUS an additional pollution tax that is calculated based on vehicle weight, engine size, NOx and CO2 emissions. This can easily double the total cost of the car. Up until recently EVs were completely exempt from VAT and the emissions tax, which made EVs the only real option for anyone who wanted a new car.
 
You forgot one huge reason why EVs are so popular in Norway: taxes
Anyone who wants to buy a new ICE car in Norway has to pay 25% VAT on top of the purchase price PLUS an additional pollution tax that is calculated based on vehicle weight, engine size, NOx and CO2 emissions. This can easily double the total cost of the car. Up until recently EVs were completely exempt from VAT and the emissions tax, which made EVs the only real option for anyone who wanted a new car.
Yeah a large sample set of EVs working in cold climates. We hadn’t gotten to that portion of EV denialism yet.
 

lucilius

Active member
You forgot one huge reason why EVs are so popular in Norway: taxes
Anyone who wants to buy a new ICE car in Norway has to pay 25% VAT on top of the purchase price PLUS an additional pollution tax that is calculated based on vehicle weight, engine size, NOx and CO2 emissions. This can easily double the total cost of the car. Up until recently EVs were completely exempt from VAT and the emissions tax, which made EVs the only real option for anyone who wanted a new car.
There is a lot more detail if anyone wants to dive in, i hit wavetops. It is just different. e.g. you can drive your EV on good roads, past many charging stations making it quick and easy, or jump on a train or bus or bike/hike/ski path safely to the sporting goods store and pick up a suppressor or two for your magnum caliber precision rifle...try that in the US. EV is a great fit for Norway because of exceptional hydro power generation capacity coupled with their petroleum industry-derived sovereign wealth funds and higher taxes = infrastructure....try that in the US. They are also a small country bordering Russia. Better or not is subjective.
In the US, particularly in cold regions lacking infrastructure, EV's are great for those with the passion but simply have too many limitations for me even if there was a super simple affordable EV truck, think 79-series LC with a 200hp equiv electric motor. [Does anyone build an EV with manual roll-up windows and door locks?]. I looked at F150 EV and not impressed. I cannot logically/cerebrally or physically connect a clean energy source with an EV in the Northern Rockies. I cannot confidently drive my kids to a ski race or other sport 300-400 miles away as I routinely do in bad winter weather where I actually wouldn't mind seeing more gas stations to be honest. Breakdowns would be more than inconvenience.
Norwegians have a realistic view on how to use their gas & oil profitably to improve Norway for Norwegians and also how to pay taxes and actually see a lot of results coming from their oil & gas and the high taxes they pay, a realistic EV charging infrastructure and robust rail network being only a couple of examples. They also all largely serve their country for a couple of years in the military or doing other essential civic duty. It's just different. They pay a lot of different kinds of taxes, flat base income tax rate of ~20% IIRC and everyone except the abject poor pay taxes (and for those folks, they provide help)....and they are basically banning new ICE vehicles from being sold starting in 2025. I should highlight that they tax their residents in the coldest and northernmost counties at lower rates due to various hardships and privations that come with living in rural, cold areas. Again, tough to compare to the way we dither in the US.
 
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Dougnuts

Well-known member
I put a reservation in on the R2. I love the form factor.

I'm expecting to get the call around the end of 2025 or early 2026, so we'll see what happens to the world of EV's (and battery technology) between now and then.
 
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plh

Explorer
Norway has an 82% take rate on EVs. Gets a bit chilly there.

Diesel passenger cars are pretty much over. The Prius was ending the Golf TDi before VW got caught cheating.

My first car was a diesel Rabbit. Fond memories.

Percentages are a crazy thing. Norway persons only bought 175K new cars in 2022. That is like 4 days worth of sales in the USA. EVs are great for a daily commuter as long as you have a personal place to charge it. I do like the R3 - it would be a great commuter.
 
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