Broken frame

[haven]

Doug lengthened the FG's frame to accommodate the camper plus the "garage" for the motorbikes. The frame rails were reinforced around the frame cut. If I remember correctly, Doug's working hypothesis is that the reinforced section didn't flex like the remainder of the frame, so more stress was applied fore and aft of the cuts. And Doug will be the first to tell you that his vehicle was loaded considerably beyond the FG's GVWR.

I doubt that the frame suffered a catastrophic failure. It probably started cracking some time ago, and finally failed on the rough roads in Ecuador. I agree with others that the opposite frame rail probably will show damage, too.

Doug told me that the staff of All Terrain Warriors helped create the plan that patched up the truck enough to be shipped back home. Thanks to "whatcharterboat" and his colleagues for lending a hand from 15,000 miles away!

I guess the good news is that Doug and Stephanie were within a few days of their planned departure for home when the failure occurred, and that Doug is the right kind of person to deal with this sort of problem.

Failure of a truck's frame is very rare. Most of the stories I've heard have involved some sort of rust issue before the failure. Does anyone have a frame failure story to share?

Chip Haven

 

[kerry]

It looks to me as if Doug extended the frame in two places. There's a place just around the transmission which is a major extension and then a couple of pieces coming out the back to which the pivot point bolts. I can't imagine how the front extension would have much effect since it is so far forward.

By frame flex, I had in mind what you call a hot spot of normal flexing. I agree that a 3 point pivot is really 2 points and that a mount halfway between the ends would reduce that hot spot of flexing. Looking at the build photos and the break photo, it appears the break is halfway or so between them. I'd guess that with the pivot mounts at each end, the 'hot spot' of flex would be somewhere between the ends of the spring shackles.

 

[kerry]

Doug told me that the staff of All Terrain Warriors helped create the plan that patched up the truck enough to be shipped back home. Thanks to "whatcharterboat" and his colleagues for lending a hand from 15,000 miles away!


Chip Haven

I hope Whatcharterboat shares that plan with us as I think it is probably both creative and useful

I had a friend with a 67 Ford Galaxie on which the frame broke in two as he was driving down the road. That was in upstate NY and it had suffered a lot of rust before succumbing to the elements.
I recently saw an Fuso advertised for sale somewhere in the rustbelt for parts because the frame was broken behind the cab. Can't remember if it was on Ebay or Craigslist.

 

[haven]

The story of Bill Swails' problems with the original Earthroamer
in Baja can be found here:

http://www.earthroamer.com/galleries/2001baja/32.html

 

[dhackney]

Field Report: Hackney Fuso Frame

Guys (the word guys is a gender neutral term where I grew up... ),

Thank you for the concern about our situation.

Sorry for the delay in posting on this. We are in a very low bandwidth situation down here (1 to 15 kbps upstream, and no, I am not making those numbers up, I tested it), so my ability to do anything other than deal with our situation has been very limited.

You can read some of my thoughts on our frame situation by checking out our trip thread. I literally don't have the bandwidth to open another window and put the link in here, so someone please post it to this thread.

Here's a brief history/timeline:
1) October 2008, we bent the frame at the rear axle line winching out a large Mercedes overland expedition vehicle. It is my opinion the bend started earlier, but we definitely hurt the Fuso badly with the winching. When we discovered the bend we parked the truck until we returned from our holiday visit to the U.S.
2) January 2009. Although we repaired/straightened the bend and installed frame reinforcements in that area as per the Fuso body builder's manual (3.7 Reinforcement of side rail FE-FG I-3-7 to 8), we believe their net effect was to move the stress forward to the next highest concentration of force: the forward spring hanger.
3) February 2009. Frame breaks on very rough road (although by no means the roughest we have been on) in Ecuador at around 12k feet. Probable cause was a huge, sharp hole along a cliff edge, sharp right hand turn, about 14k feet up in the Andes. I didn’t see it in time in the fog, rain and dark - and I emphasize very, very heavy fog. I was going about 5 to 10 mph at the time, if that helps give you an idea of how heavy the fog was. At that speed I thought I was overdriving our fog lights, which are aimed about 5 feet in front of the bumper.

The frame break happened on the driver’s side (LHD), just forward of the rear spring shackle/hanger ahead of the axle.

The frame is cracked on the passenger side (LHD) at the cross member that is one forward of the break.

Our frame was extended in two places, at the midpoint just aft of the step-down and at the tail. I believe both extensions are more rigid than the stock frame. 20/20 hindsight - we should have sleeved or reinforced the entire frame.

Our pivot frame does put stress on two sections of the frame that are relatively far apart. We experience fore/aft pitching of the pivot frame/camper due to the inherent flexibility of the Fuso frame. I agree with Chip and John (whatcharterboat) that the repeated fore/aft pitch probably weakened the stock sections of the frame over time.

At this time, our truck is in Ecuador being repaired. I am working on posting an update that details the process now. At the upstream data rates I am working with, the 1.2 MB file may take a couple of centuries to post.

About three weeks ago, while we were out on the coast of Ecuador, we decided to ship the truck back to the states and disassemble it to the point required to fix the storage boxes and the separation we were still seeing between the garage and camper.

When the frame broke we were on our way back up to the Sierra to take a trip out into the Amazon basin, then put the truck on a ship either in Columbia or Ecuador. We fell just short of making the port. If we'd had a better road or driving conditions, we might have made it. Conversely, we may have never known about the frame, but we were planning on reinforcing the entire thing anyway.

Our plan now is to ship the truck via flat rack back to the states and completely disassemble it down to the bare frame. At that point we will determine the best course of action.

We do carry a LOT of weight. Amount is unknown because every time we put the Fuso on a scale we either push the scale down through the earth's crust or the display simply flashes "tilt."

People often asked me why we didn't use an air bag suspension on the truck when we built it, including our fabricator. This situation is an example of why. Out here in the developing world you can get anything mechanical fixed. That means anything made of steel, wood, leather or fabric can be fixed. You find basically zero abandoned truck or auto chassis out here because they are still on the road or have been cannibalized to the extent there is nothing left. People out here know how to fix things and keep them rolling. A broken truck frame is just another day at the shop for these guys.

This whole thing started back in October for us, and has shaped our experiences since then. We wouldn't have made it this far without the support, advice and help of many people, including those on this forum.

I'd like to take a moment to offer public thanks for their support during this situation to:

• Fred (diplostrat) - a stalwart friend and supporter of our travels and the key person for our bent frame repair in Quito. Fred's in the Central African Republic and he hooked us up with an interpreter/fixer who saved the day for us.
• John (whatcharterboat) and the team at All Terrain Warriors - a longtime resource for us, and an endless source of engineering input, alternatives and recommendations for our Fuso.

For advice, counsel and input regarding non-Fuso chassis vehicles:

• Jay Shapiro (I can't recall his screen name and again, can't open another window to find out) - input on Ford F650 and his construction of Ecoroamer
• Charlie Aarons (same thing with the screen name) - input on Unimog chassis, etc. Always a reliable resource.
• Chip (haven) - the go-to resource for anything related to expedition campers.

Non-forum members:

• Ron Lucero, service manager, Kearny Mesa Truck Center, San Diego, CA - Ron has always been there for us, wherever we are on the planet. He's working with Fuso engineering so they can learn from this situation.
• Mark Johnson, who fabricated the Fuso.
• Jon Lee, co-Fusologist, who was my primary support (as in not losing my mind) during the build.

I'm sure I'm forgetting someone. My apologies. I'm a bit stressed right now.

Thanks again to all of you for your concern about our situation. It means a lot to us out here.

Be well,
Doug

 

[dhackney]

Frame break, driver's side (LHD), shot from interior area where raw water tank normally resides. Cross member is just forward of the rear axle.

Frame crack, passenger side (LHD). The white cross member above the crack is the forward end of the three point pivot frame.

 

[dhackney]

Our trip thread is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10616

You'll find my comments on the frame situation there.

I am working on adding a post with more details, photos, etc., which I hope to have up there later today or tomorrow.

 

[dhackney]

I finally got the update post uploaded. This shows some photos of the frame, etc.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=351745#post351745

 

[dhackney]

Here's a document that shows the locations of the frame issues with our Fuso.

If you have a Fuso based vehicle, it would probably be a good idea to inspect these locations closely.

http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/docs/hackneyfusoframefailures.pdf

The bend happened in October 2008 when we winched another expedition vehicle out of the mud.

We straightend and reinforced that part of the frame in January 2009.

The break happened in February 2009.

I do not have any way to know when the crack appeared.

 

[dhackney]

Here's some photos of the bend and the repair and reinforcement of that area of the frame.

October 2008. Bend in frame just aft of the rear axle centerline.

January 2009. In progress shot of the reinforcement placed over both sides of the frame in the bend area. Repair in Quito, Ecuador. The reinforcement was built as per the Fuso body builder's manual. The angle on each end is to distribute the forces across the transistion area between the reinforcement and the stock frame.

January 2009. Shot of the finished reinforcement, forward area, driver's side.

As it turned out, the forces the frame was subject to were just moved forward to the next highest stressed area: just forward of the spring shackles, and that is where the frame broke.

 

[kerry]

It looks like the mechanics you found to repair the frame have done a good job. Did you do anything to the right side or are you just going to wait until you get back to the US?
I remember your post about winching the Mercedes. As I recall you had to pull the truck at an angle. Was it that angular pull that bent the frame? Do you think the winching caused the final failure or just exacerbated a weakness which would have ultimately failed anyway? Or, did the frame bend because it was already weakened at those points?

When you get home, have you considered doing something like replacing the frame rails from your front extension to the back with frame rails from an FM? I assume they are heavier. I don't know if the rails are similar or not but I thought of it when I saw a wrecked FM for sale somewhere for parts.

Ooops. It was an FH, not an FM. Here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-M....c0.m245&_trkparms=72:727|65:12|39:1|240:1318

 

[dhackney]

Need to clear up some misunderstandings:
1) As of today, 27 February 2009, the truck is still across the street from me in a shop here in Riobamba, Ecuador. We hope the repairs will be completed today or tomorrow.
2) We hope to have the Fuso on a ship within a few weeks back to the states.
3) Once we return to the states we will move forward with our original (pre-frame break) plan to disassemble the rig down to the bare frame. At that point we will make a decision on the best route to move forward.

 

[dhackney]

Sorry to hear about your hardship!

Joaquin,

Thank you. The support is greatly appreciated right now.

Best regards,
Doug

 

[dhackney]

It looks like the mechanics you found to repair the frame have done a good job.

Note that the photos of the finished work were of the reinforcment done in Quito in January. The frame break repair is ongoing at this time.

Did you do anything to the right side or are you just going to wait until you get back to the US?

We are bolting a reinforcement structure to the passenger side (LHD) frame rail to hopefully prevent it breaking in the same spot. We are planning to limp it to the port, but unfortuantely, the main (best) road from the Sierra to Guayaquil was recently disrupted by a major landslide. The other roads are variations on the road that broke the frame in terms of condition.

I remember your post about winching the Mercedes. As I recall you had to pull the truck at an angle. Was it that angular pull that bent the frame?

Unknown.

Do you think the winching caused the final failure or just exacerbated a weakness which would have ultimately failed anyway? Or, did the frame bend because it was already weakened at those points?

There is a school of thought, a group of advocates, who feel strongly the winching caused the damage. I lean towards "exacerbated a weakness."

When you get home, have you considered doing something like replacing the frame rails from your front extension to the back with frame rails from an FM? I assume they are heavier. I don't know if the rails are similar or not but I thought of it when I saw a wrecked FM for sale somewhere for parts.

We are considering the following:
1) Replace the stock frame with a new stock frame (implies major weight reduction to prevent a recurrance of the same problems)
2) Replace the stock frame with a custom 8mm or 10mm frame

We are not considering doing anything with the current frame. It is a very, very ugly sight when you are up under the truck right now. I've never seen anything like it, but I've not spent my life working on trucks like these mechanics do. They didn't even raise an eyebrow.

 

[Robthebrit]

If you are going to replace the frame I'd go for the custom and keep everything else the same. If you go with another stock frame you are going to have to make all the same mods and it's unknown if those mods played a factor. How much weight do you have to remove to ensure it doesn't happen again?

A custom frame can be made from thicker metal and fit your camper while remaining a single piece.

How thick is the frame on a fuso, it looks quite thin for such a heavy truck. Whats is the GVW?

Rob