Which is better Land Rover or Hummer?

[citthru]

Hello All! This is my first post so forgive me if this has been brought up or debated before. I'm looking to get into building up a rig in the coming year and I've always loved Hummers, but I have a thing for Land Rovers as well. Obviously I'm going to get some biased replies here, but I would like to know what makes one or the other better. I'm thinking the size of the Hummer along limits some of its off road capabilities, but it just seems to be indestructible. Let me hear your thoughts. Thanks!

Mak

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

First question they will ask you before they bite your head off.... which rover and which hummer?

 

[citthru]

Ok, I should have thought of that. I know how newbs are treated in other forums. For me the only Hummer is the H1. As for Rovers, I'm pretty much open to all of them except the Freelander.

 

[Scott Brady]

I would not consider a Hummer. This is even more critical in light of the scuttling of the HUMMER brand a few days ago by GM. All support for that platform will quickly evaporate.

The better question is what do you want to do with brand X once you buy it? Weekend camping trips in the UP? Drive to Panama? Drive to the Southwest once a year? Will it just be you? Two kids and a wife? That will help us provide better recommendations.

 

[haven]

Of course, the H1 (the original HMMWV) is built by AM General, not by GM,
and it's almost completely different from the H2 and H3. The H1 will
continue to be built for military customers.

While the H2 and H3 are officially orphaned, GM will continue to supply
parts. Under the skin, the H2 is very similar to a Chevy Tahoe, and the
H3 is similar to the Colorado pickup. The Hummers have different
body panels, suspension pieces and tire/wheel packages.

 

[SeaRubi]

can I be the first to recommend a Toyota FJ80? Pre-emptive strike. gotta get it out of the way. :sombrero:

There are a great number of fine choices out there, including Land Rovers. Maybe in addition to usage you could give us an idea of your budget?

 

[Token]

Of course, the H1 (the original HMMWV) is built by AM General, not by GM,
and it's almost completely different from the H2 and H3. The H1 will
continue to be built for military customers.

While the H2 and H3 are officially orphaned, GM will continue to supply
parts. Under the skin, the H2 is very similar to a Chevy Tahoe, and the
H3 is similar to the Colorado pickup. The Hummers have different
body panels, suspension pieces and tire/wheel packages.

Yeah there's gonna be a good source of H1 parts for many years to come.. There's at least 4 military rigs that will be available to repair every civilian produced..

H2 and H3 parts will get scarce quick I imagine.. Kinda got me worried since I have an H3.. There are actually very few interchangable parts between the H2 and a Tahoe.. The H2 is a LOT beefier under the skin.. Same goes for the H3/Colorado, although the last two are kinda close.. Frames are different, transfer cases, electronics, etc.. The stuff that's already difficult to find are some crossmembers that have a bad designed bushing that wears out, can't be replaced and then causes cracks in the crossmember.. Front diff is glass and isn't quite the same as the Colorado.. Transfer case is it's own little thing not completely shared on any other platform.

When you're comparing.. The H2 is prolly comparable all the way around to the larger Range Rovers.. H3 would be comparable to the Disco.. Freelander is more like a Jeep Compass..

H1 is going to be a moneypit for maintenace.. They are great as long as you stay on top of them all the time.. Seems like someone once told me for an H1to remain reliable, expect to put at least $2000 a year into Maint..

 

[Chucaro]

For making a made man reef I woulf go for the Hummer

 

[Scott Brady]

Actually, H1s are a blast to drive fast. Few have done it, but those who have know what I mean. They are just not the right choice for an exploration rig. Do some research on the mission criteria for the H1 and its use is immediately clear. Long-distance, unsupported travel is nowhere in that design criteria.

 

[citthru]

Thank you all for the info and taking it easy on a new guy. This "rig", whatever it will turn out to be will be for exploring with the family. Not into the rock climbing, but would like to do some off-roading with the ability to take camping gear. My creative spirit will probably lead to building something I clearly won't take full advantage of, but that's just me. I live in the Windy City, but would love a long expedition from here to Alaska. I do realize which ever way I go, it's going to be a money-pit initially.

As for the H1 (the original HMMWV) being still used by the military, I read an article about the new Oshkosh M-ATV that's supposed to be replacing it. With this being said, I feel like there could be a surplus of military vehicles to pick from, if I went that route. However, the civilian H1 would probably be a better place to start from.

Again, thanks for all the info!

 

[Token]

I feel like there could be a surplus of military vehicles to pick from,

First off.. The Military rig is a 24V system.. Maybe not hard to change over, but it'd take some work to get a 12volt system in there for the typical expo stuff.. Fridge and other 12vdc equipment..

2nd.. Military has at some point said they'll not sell the HMMWV to the general public in the clearance auctions. I think mostly it has the same reasoning as to why the H1 was dropped from the civilian line up.. They don't meet DOT standards.. You can occasionally find a HMMWV for sale, but I've never seen one newer than a late 80's model in civilian hands.. I have seen several lots of HMMWV parts come up for sale on government auctions, in one case almost 100 motors still in crates.. There is generally a stipulation that you're buying the stuff as scrap metal and in order to claim your winning bid you have to show up with a metal shreader and shread your entire purchase into scrap before you can leave with it.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

FWIW, I have an 04 Disco, and I often think that if I had to start all over, I'd get an H3. With the Adventure package, you get 33" wheels and lockers from the factory. I've heard you can fit 35's without doing much to them. Both engines available in the H3 (I5 and V8) are modern designs that should blow away the Rover V8 in terms of reliability and economy. The Rover V8 is certainly the worst engine I've seen offered in a modern car. I'm guessing the trails around your area (even the "easy ones") are similar to here, meaning lots of deep mud. 35" tires would really help, and it's fairly difficult to get them on a Rover.

By law, the H2 and H3 will have to be supported with replacement parts by the OEM for 14 years from the date of manufacture. Not to mention, they did sell a number of them, and I don't expect we'll really have a deficit of available parts. While a Hummer is no F-150 (in terms of numbers sold), surely nobody is going to suggest that a Land Rover has better parts availability in NA. For example, LR sold about 200,000 Range Rover Classics throughout the world, much less in NA. Hummer sold about 150,000 H3's, mostly in the US. The Range Rover hasn't been sold for 15 years, but is anybody claiming problems with parts availability?

Furthermore... have a look around various online Rover communities, and see if you like the crowd. The US Rover online community is fairly unique. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Token]

The H3 is a pretty good offroad rig, contrary to the fact that most of them never end up off the pavement..

I've drug mine all over Superlift ORV Park in Hot Springs, Moab and Colorado a couple of times.. Have had a few small problems along the way, but prolly not anymore than you'd have in any other rig.

35's can be slapped under an 35 with no other mods at all.. You can gain 2" of lift just be turning the torsion bars up a bit and still stay within what is considered factory specs. Rear can be lifted with a simple $35 shackle lift.

Economy.. That's a funny thing.. I started out getting 18mpg or so.. Went to 35's and it dropped to 12. Regearing could solve that, but the H3 I-5 comes w/ 4:56 gears.. The front diff being a GM 10 bolt 7.5", 4:56 is the lowest gear set made that fits.. I've heard the same mpg numbers from the Alpha, but since it's geared 4:11 from the factory, you can at least gear back down to 4:56 to get close to the OEM final drive ratio if you wanted.

There are a few parts for the H3 that are already getting hard to find. I know of one down in Florida that sat in service for 3 months waiting on a front axle shaft that was on back order last year. Some of the parts that have changed slightly between 06 and 10 have been listed as updated parts from the later year models.. The problem is they do not fit exactly right on earlier year models.. The older parts were phased out before this was figured out.

Folks are slowly staring to figure out how to remanufacture some of these worn out parts with no replacements. Mostly frame parts with bushings that aren't designed to have the bushings replaced.

Odd items are rubber boots.. There are no GM part numbers for any of them.. Rip a front drive shaft boot and the "fix" is replace the drive shaft.. Same goes for front axle shafts and tie rods..

 

[goodtimes]

I spent some time in ARB's H3 Alpha a year ago. It is a fairly comfortable 'road car'. It got reasonable gas mileage, the seats were decent, it handled and rode well.

It still had the stock suspension, but was loaded down with a drawer system, fridge, etc. Due to that (at least in part) it was a bit of a wallowing pig. Proper springs and shocks would have helped.

It, much like the FJC -- but to a lesser extent, suffers from visibility issues. The rear windows are to small and to high, and the front seats are pretty low. As a result, it felt much bigger than it actually was. The performance off road (as in: unmaintained dirt roads between Moab and Prescott) was decent, considering the overloaded suspension.

If GM did not recently abandon the brand, and I was in the market for a SUV, I would consider one. I don't know if I would end up going that route, but I would certainly entertain it. It would serve well for getting a family + outdoor gear to a remote kick off point for human powered recreation (IE: getting backpacking gear to Sycamore Canyon, or snorkeling gear to Cabo Pulmo, etc).

 

[bobtail4x4]

I would suggest you drive a few of each,

and then buy a landrover, I may be biased I own 4:smiley_drive: