BigJimCruising
Adventurer
Sounds good to me! I'll see you all there. I didn't know the old Fat Burgers chain was still around! Is it as good as the LA one?
How do you use HAM in an Emergency?
- Thread starter nwoods
- Start date
nwoods
Expedition Leader
Colorado David
Explorer
I've used handheld radios to communicate with aircraft for photo shoots. We would ask ATC for permission and they would assign us a frequency. It required planning and pre-photo mission briefing. I don't know how it could be done in an emergency.
taugust
Adventurer
With regard to contacting police and fire on their frequencies, you are allowed to use any means at your disposal (read "use any frequency or band, whether licensed or not, on any radio, legal modifications or not") to contact help in an emergency. The FCC allows this because getting help quickly in an emergency is more important than the licensing rules. I don't believe there is licensing required for aircraft frequency use, but I could be wrong. You simply need the required radio. You won't be prosecuted for using any means at your disposal in an emergency. You may have a problem getting dispatchers to respond to you if you don't have a legal ID.
You approached this in the proper manner for the equipment you had available: Cell or SPOT first, Ham next. Simply having the list of repeaters won't do you much good in an emergency, since you will likely not know how to quickly program them in for use in a clutch situation. Provided you have the memory space in the radio, program ALL of the repeaters in your area of use into the radio beforehand. Then you can quickly click through them to find a usable repeater and make a call. I carry a cheat sheet with the memory location, repeater freq., offset, PL tone, Location, and notes for all programmed memories. This way I can quickly find a nearby repeater and dial it up and use it. It also helps to know where you are and generally where the repeaters are with respect to your location.
I was in a similar situation to this last year and called in help with my HT through a repeater since cell coverage was non-existent. I reached a repeater 22 miles away, contacted a station 50 miles from the repeater, and had volunteer EMS arrive in about 10 minutes. I had a pretty good idea of which repeaters I could hit and quickly dialed them up and tried. I got an immediate response from the first repeater I could hit. My post about the incident is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14325
In So Cal, most active repeaters will have someone listening 24/7. It helps to know which repeaters are most active. When I first started in ham radio, I would set my radio to scan the local repeaters and just listen to conversations. You quickly learn which repeaters are most active.
As for calling directly for a air evacuation, don't plan on it. A police, or more likely fire/medic on scene must request an air ambulance. They must do it through their dispatch, since they require a ground contact to land the airship (provide a clear landing zone and local weather conditions). Special training is required (I know because I have taken it).
You approached this in the proper manner for the equipment you had available: Cell or SPOT first, Ham next. Simply having the list of repeaters won't do you much good in an emergency, since you will likely not know how to quickly program them in for use in a clutch situation. Provided you have the memory space in the radio, program ALL of the repeaters in your area of use into the radio beforehand. Then you can quickly click through them to find a usable repeater and make a call. I carry a cheat sheet with the memory location, repeater freq., offset, PL tone, Location, and notes for all programmed memories. This way I can quickly find a nearby repeater and dial it up and use it. It also helps to know where you are and generally where the repeaters are with respect to your location.
I was in a similar situation to this last year and called in help with my HT through a repeater since cell coverage was non-existent. I reached a repeater 22 miles away, contacted a station 50 miles from the repeater, and had volunteer EMS arrive in about 10 minutes. I had a pretty good idea of which repeaters I could hit and quickly dialed them up and tried. I got an immediate response from the first repeater I could hit. My post about the incident is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14325
In So Cal, most active repeaters will have someone listening 24/7. It helps to know which repeaters are most active. When I first started in ham radio, I would set my radio to scan the local repeaters and just listen to conversations. You quickly learn which repeaters are most active.
As for calling directly for a air evacuation, don't plan on it. A police, or more likely fire/medic on scene must request an air ambulance. They must do it through their dispatch, since they require a ground contact to land the airship (provide a clear landing zone and local weather conditions). Special training is required (I know because I have taken it).
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HanzoSteel
Explorer
I think the phone would be #1 to use but if you don't know your coordinates then the SPOT comes in handy, which I think it helped here.
nwoods
Expedition Leader
Again, we used SPOT because of the insurance policy that comes with it
Seldom Seen
Observer
Check in your ARRL repeater guide (you have one right?) for machines, in areas you travel, that are LiTZ capable.
LiTZ stands for Long Tone Zero and means that holding down the 0 (zero) key on your DTMF pad for 3 seconds, the repeater will open a link directly to a person designated to handle emergency traffic.
The machine may be set up so when it receives a LiTZ it will autopatch you to a 911 operator or it may direct you to a ham designated to handle emergency traffic. Either way you'll get someone skilled at forwarding emergency messages.
Here on the front range we have a wide area coverage machine that, when you send a LiTZ, opens a link directly to the Colorado State Patrol dispatch center in Denver.
For more info on LiTZ there is a short chapter in the front of the repeater guide.
LiTZ stands for Long Tone Zero and means that holding down the 0 (zero) key on your DTMF pad for 3 seconds, the repeater will open a link directly to a person designated to handle emergency traffic.
The machine may be set up so when it receives a LiTZ it will autopatch you to a 911 operator or it may direct you to a ham designated to handle emergency traffic. Either way you'll get someone skilled at forwarding emergency messages.
Here on the front range we have a wide area coverage machine that, when you send a LiTZ, opens a link directly to the Colorado State Patrol dispatch center in Denver.
For more info on LiTZ there is a short chapter in the front of the repeater guide.
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Cabrito
I come in Peace
Interesting,
I feel like I should know about this. I probably did at some point, but forgot. This could come in handy. Thanks for posting.
In California
The highway patrol, Calstar and Calcord rescue helicopters have the ability to QSY.
They generally transmit/receive/cordinate with ground teams in the 150 ++ Mhz frequencies. Many newer ham radios can be easily modified to operate in these frequencies.
While not necessarily legal for FCC reasons, in the event of a life and death event I would not hesitate to transmit there.
When I go afield I try to know the local non ham rescue freq's in the area of my travel.
The highway patrol, Calstar and Calcord rescue helicopters have the ability to QSY.
They generally transmit/receive/cordinate with ground teams in the 150 ++ Mhz frequencies. Many newer ham radios can be easily modified to operate in these frequencies.
While not necessarily legal for FCC reasons, in the event of a life and death event I would not hesitate to transmit there.
When I go afield I try to know the local non ham rescue freq's in the area of my travel.
Tennmogger
Explorer
Seldom Seen, this is really good info on LiTZ that you passed along. I didn't know it was possible to be patched through to a dispatcher, a great idea! Which repeater does that?
Many repeaters are also programmed to open if a carrier with audio is received for more than a few seconds (after all, tone access is usually not meant to keep the hams out, just to prevent keying by noise, and kerchunkers).
If you hear a repeater and can't get it to respond, key up and give your callsign and hold the carrier for several seconds. Another trick is to transmit in simplex on the repeater output frequency. Anyone monitoring the repeater, and within range of you, will hear you even if you don't know the CTCSS code and do not bring up the repeater. Also, some ham receivers will scan for the code. Very handy on a repeater you that can hear but not access.
You are in a wonderful place there in the Colorado Front Range to use ham radio for emergencies. The hams in the area are emergency conscious and the emergency services have been well 'trained' by the hams. I lived there for years, and served as Arapahoe Co ARES EC, as Front Range EC, and as Colorado State ARES EC.
It's a common mistake to think that 'other services' care anything about monitoring or using ham radio. They will stick to what they know....their radios and their frequencies, and phone calls. Best to use ham radio to get the message passed over to them by phone, by their dispatcher, it'll be faster. Just be sure they know the emergency is not located where the other ham's phone is!
In an emergency, and given the means to talk to them on their frequency, by all means consider it if it's a life or death situation. Be aware that just because it's an emergency does not mean that the authorities, even those you are asking for help, will not try to prosecute you after the fact. Ham radios are not type accepted for use on any other frequencies so you will always be legally in the wrong, even if you save a life.
As for the inability of hams to talk directly with other services, they want it that way. They don't even want us to be able to hear what's going on. So, a ham coming up and talking on their channels will make them respond negatively...not a good way to get help.
We expedition/outdoors types find ourselves out of touch most of the time if we are limited to using repeaters. Advancing to General Class license gives privileges on the HF bands where help can be summoned most any time or place. As someone pointed out, the message may be passed from another state or country, but it will be passed. 20m is my favorite band for daytime communications and there are nets in operation almost continuously. 14,300 kHz is a good example, with the Maritime Mobile Net, Intercontinental Net, and Seafarers Net, all on that frequency at various times of day. Those guys monitor all the time and are good at handling emergencies.
Hope my rambling is of some benefit.
WB4ETT
Many repeaters are also programmed to open if a carrier with audio is received for more than a few seconds (after all, tone access is usually not meant to keep the hams out, just to prevent keying by noise, and kerchunkers).
If you hear a repeater and can't get it to respond, key up and give your callsign and hold the carrier for several seconds. Another trick is to transmit in simplex on the repeater output frequency. Anyone monitoring the repeater, and within range of you, will hear you even if you don't know the CTCSS code and do not bring up the repeater. Also, some ham receivers will scan for the code. Very handy on a repeater you that can hear but not access.
You are in a wonderful place there in the Colorado Front Range to use ham radio for emergencies. The hams in the area are emergency conscious and the emergency services have been well 'trained' by the hams. I lived there for years, and served as Arapahoe Co ARES EC, as Front Range EC, and as Colorado State ARES EC.
It's a common mistake to think that 'other services' care anything about monitoring or using ham radio. They will stick to what they know....their radios and their frequencies, and phone calls. Best to use ham radio to get the message passed over to them by phone, by their dispatcher, it'll be faster. Just be sure they know the emergency is not located where the other ham's phone is!
In an emergency, and given the means to talk to them on their frequency, by all means consider it if it's a life or death situation. Be aware that just because it's an emergency does not mean that the authorities, even those you are asking for help, will not try to prosecute you after the fact. Ham radios are not type accepted for use on any other frequencies so you will always be legally in the wrong, even if you save a life.
As for the inability of hams to talk directly with other services, they want it that way. They don't even want us to be able to hear what's going on. So, a ham coming up and talking on their channels will make them respond negatively...not a good way to get help.
We expedition/outdoors types find ourselves out of touch most of the time if we are limited to using repeaters. Advancing to General Class license gives privileges on the HF bands where help can be summoned most any time or place. As someone pointed out, the message may be passed from another state or country, but it will be passed. 20m is my favorite band for daytime communications and there are nets in operation almost continuously. 14,300 kHz is a good example, with the Maritime Mobile Net, Intercontinental Net, and Seafarers Net, all on that frequency at various times of day. Those guys monitor all the time and are good at handling emergencies.
Hope my rambling is of some benefit.
WB4ETT
dzzz
™
An old thread, but I believe an important point is that you don't have to activate Spot to qualify for coverage on the insurance purchased. It's SAR insurance for the Spot owner.
It's not appropriate to activate Spot if cell phone service or other radio means are available to communicate the emergency.
One reason I bought spot was the inexpensive insurance add-on.
Note that only the Spot registrant is covered. Not the spouse, not the kids. There coverage is add-ons for more people.
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Oni
Adventurer
Nwoods
IMHO, you guys did the right thing by activating the SPOT.
I am a SAR member. One of the biggest difficulties we have is communication. We usually get our information from CHP (they get 911 calls routed to them). Usually by the time we get called, information is 2nd or 3rd hand. If we are lucky, we get a contact number for the reporting party and can get info direct from the source.
Even then...most victims do not really know their location or have a vague idea. To compound that...most of our victims leave their phones on with spotty cell signal, which drains the battery quickly. When they do call 911 their battery level is usually really low.
It would be huge if we were notified with our victims exact location via SPOT or other method...vast majority of our victims don't carry GPS's, or maps or anything else except a cell phone. If a Rescue Team had been able to contact you and get that info from you via cell phone, that would have been fine too...but you would have probably had to go through a few phone calls/waits/frustration trying to get connected to the right people.
In this scenario it was suspected the rider needed c-spine precautions...best thing for him is to get to the ER ASAP. Best way in that scenario seemed to the the SPOT. Helicopter could have brought a paramedic to assess the situation and help stabilize the victim and possibly transport him. LA County has Air Rescue 5 which is equipped with paramedics and sometimes an MD. They also transport.
I have and carry a SPOT when I'm out riding/hiking/exploring/travelling. I filled out the information with SPOT with pertinent info. I suggest description, age, gender, and medical conditions, blood type, allergies etc.
For responding units all that info would be really helpful. Knowing that the patient is diabetic, allergic to something, on medications, has health conditions and all that can help the medics/hospital prepare for treatment and things to watch out for. Knowing that the person has no health conditions or known allergies is good to know too!
Good job helping the injured rider! :victory::bike_rider:
IMHO, you guys did the right thing by activating the SPOT.
I am a SAR member. One of the biggest difficulties we have is communication. We usually get our information from CHP (they get 911 calls routed to them). Usually by the time we get called, information is 2nd or 3rd hand. If we are lucky, we get a contact number for the reporting party and can get info direct from the source.
Even then...most victims do not really know their location or have a vague idea. To compound that...most of our victims leave their phones on with spotty cell signal, which drains the battery quickly. When they do call 911 their battery level is usually really low.
It would be huge if we were notified with our victims exact location via SPOT or other method...vast majority of our victims don't carry GPS's, or maps or anything else except a cell phone. If a Rescue Team had been able to contact you and get that info from you via cell phone, that would have been fine too...but you would have probably had to go through a few phone calls/waits/frustration trying to get connected to the right people.
In this scenario it was suspected the rider needed c-spine precautions...best thing for him is to get to the ER ASAP. Best way in that scenario seemed to the the SPOT. Helicopter could have brought a paramedic to assess the situation and help stabilize the victim and possibly transport him. LA County has Air Rescue 5 which is equipped with paramedics and sometimes an MD. They also transport.
I have and carry a SPOT when I'm out riding/hiking/exploring/travelling. I filled out the information with SPOT with pertinent info. I suggest description, age, gender, and medical conditions, blood type, allergies etc.
For responding units all that info would be really helpful. Knowing that the patient is diabetic, allergic to something, on medications, has health conditions and all that can help the medics/hospital prepare for treatment and things to watch out for. Knowing that the person has no health conditions or known allergies is good to know too!
Good job helping the injured rider! :victory::bike_rider:
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dzzz
™
Your right, I said "it's not appropriate". I have no idea if it was appropriate. The point I was trying to make is that Spot/Geos is selling SAR insurance. I don't see anything in their agreement that requires pressing the button. I was also responding to the injured person not wanting sheriff's dispatch called.
ObGobOobaleeney
Observer
I've used an air band radio in an emergency. Long story with a happy ending. Let's just say that when our cell phones failed, a ham radio contact got us in touch with a landline 911 operator, who then gave the medevac pilot our general location and airband frequency. (this was in the days before Spot, and GPS itself was not very common)
In a true emergency, use what you need, as wisely as you can. Ain't nobody going to come arrest you for using a radio to save a life.
In addition to a cell phone and single HF/UHF/VHF radio...I carry a now discontinued (in USA) Yaesu Spirit 2m Ham and AM Airband combination walkie talkie transceiver. One of the guys in our group also has Spot.
In a true emergency, use what you need, as wisely as you can. Ain't nobody going to come arrest you for using a radio to save a life.
In addition to a cell phone and single HF/UHF/VHF radio...I carry a now discontinued (in USA) Yaesu Spirit 2m Ham and AM Airband combination walkie talkie transceiver. One of the guys in our group also has Spot.
dzzz
™
I believe it's legal to talk on any frequency if a life is at risk. (I think that was a Technician test question?). But last year when I brought up bring a small airband radio the idea was criticized.
It's a good way to get help in very remote places.
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