how in depth is it to convert to 4x4?

[bldeagle10]

i have a 1975 c10 suburban. 454. havent looked to see what rear axle i have or anything. it was my dads and he kinda gave it to me (not really mine but one day he dumped it at my house and said do what you want with it...) when i have the money im going to get it in my name and i want to do a massive rebuild.

i have ocd and when i start a build up it has to be very thorough. i have alot of memories as a kid in this burban. and even a few with my first and so far only "love" so i wanna keep ahold of this but its 2wd.

already plan on swapping the rear to a D60 and the front i think id want a D44. what am i looking at doing suspension wise to swap it over? 454 is going in a blazer as well as th400 so im already looking at new motor tranny tcase drive shaft etc... guessing the whole front suspension has to be converted and nothing really stays?

 

[chilliwak]

Hey Eagle, if you are allready thinking of taking the 454 and other gear out of this Burb, then I really cant see any reason to do a further conversion. You are better off to start with a 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive truck, and going from there.

 

[roostercruiser]

I'd keep the truck as a 2wd. And put air bags under it. They look pretty neat as a bagged hot rod. Then pick up another 3/4 ton burban and do a cheap trail rig. These old burbans are everywhere on Craigslist for dirt cheap cause of gas prices now.

cheers

Roland

 

[Metcalf]

I say build it as a pre-runner of sorts. You can keep it 2wd, maybe even add a way to get somewhat lower gears ( like low range without 4wd ). You can run larger tires for more clearance. Rear locker for traction. You can even install a winch in the rear for recovery.

All this would still probably be easier than converting to 4wd.

 

[Ford Prefect]

To answer your question,

Yes it is very involved, and it will be very expensive. I personally would agree that getting another suburban would be wise, just sell this one and pick up a 4x4 for nearly the same price.

If you are really stuck on this particular truck, then I would head over to pirate and search and search and search. There are tons of 4x4 conversion jobs over there, and I am sure you can get all the info you want.

Best of luck either way.

 

[bldeagle10]

only reason im stuck with this one is cause of the sentiment. its been in the family since i was a kid. and unless its 4x4 i really have no use for it. just a big gas guzzler.

once im done with school i guess i can price stuff out and go from there. its either getting sold, rebuilt as is. or you guys are getting one very in depth amazing expo build thread im hoping for option 3

 

[Metcalf]

I vote keep it and build it just like you want....its just money and time. If you have an attachment to it all the better, it will be worth more to you in the end.

A project like this is huge though. You are either going to have to do a lot of the work yourself in a pretty large space with a decent amount of tools, or pay someone to do it for you. I vote for doing it yourself. This way you are the only one responsible for how it turns out.

The 4wd conversion is not the end of the world.

 

[Ford Prefect]

The thing about Expo trucks is this...

You can spend half a million dollars on a truck in one day, and then wonder where you will get the money to do the rest of the work on it.

You, the OP, have implied twice now that money is a very large consideration. All I am saying is that you be wise with your money. This build could easily cost you as much if not more than it would to buy a 4x4 suberban.

Give you an example. I found a box truck that I was considering buying, the box is 17.5 feet long, and the passanger side had a curtain rather than a wall, for the length of the box. The cost to pull the curtain, and build in a new wall-$2000.oo The cost of a used box - $500-$1000.

So the consideration is obvious, would I rather spend the time and money to take the exiting box and have it built up, or just get a new box for one fourth the price!

Think about it, even people buying the million dollar rigs do not typically make purchases that are expensive "just because".

That being said, it if your time/money/potential in life. Think about what you might do with that money and time if you were not spending both on building a truck. Good luck if you do build!

 

[bldeagle10]

I vote keep it and build it just like you want....its just money and time. If you have an attachment to it all the better, it will be worth more to you in the end.

A project like this is huge though. You are either going to have to do a lot of the work yourself in a pretty large space with a decent amount of tools, or pay someone to do it for you. I vote for doing it yourself. This way you are the only one responsible for how it turns out.

The 4wd conversion is not the end of the world.

The thing about Expo trucks is this...

You can spend half a million dollars on a truck in one day, and then wonder where you will get the money to do the rest of the work on it.

You, the OP, have implied twice now that money is a very large consideration. All I am saying is that you be wise with your money. This build could easily cost you as much if not more than it would to buy a 4x4 suberban.

Give you an example. I found a box truck that I was considering buying, the box is 17.5 feet long, and the passanger side had a curtain rather than a wall, for the length of the box. The cost to pull the curtain, and build in a new wall-$2000.oo The cost of a used box - $500-$1000.

So the consideration is obvious, would I rather spend the time and money to take the exiting box and have it built up, or just get a new box for one fourth the price!

Think about it, even people buying the million dollar rigs do not typically make purchases that are expensive "just because".

That being said, it if your time/money/potential in life. Think about what you might do with that money and time if you were not spending both on building a truck. Good luck if you do build!

thanks guys. as of now i have no money, im in college. but once i get my career going money will deffinetely NOT be an issue. i was lucky enough to grow up working on cars/race cars so i am very mechanically inclined. although there is always more to learn i can do just about everything i will need to do from custom fab to tearing everything apart and rebuilding it. the only money that will be spent is on the parts i will need that i cant fab up. and at that point those parts will be rebuilt (if used) and "polished up"

so i guess what im getting at is that its not a matter of me not being able to do it or there being some excuse as to why i cant/shouldnt. i just want to know basically what all id have to do and anywhere i could potentially run into a major issue.

 

[bftank]

ok so to answer your question,

yes none of the ifs stuff will be used

you will need a front axle
transfer case
front suspension
4wd engine brace

it can be expensive especially without your own tools

you might consider a divorced np 205 for your transfer case out of a ford
and a leaf sprung 70's ford dana 44 hi pinion out of an f250 preferably with disc brakes.

dodge made a pass side drop divorced np205 if you wanted to use a chevy axle. and i would use a corp 14bolt full floater rear instead of the dana 60. stronger and just as cheap.

for the engine brace offroad design makes a tubular one, or you can adapt a chevy one.

tools needed.
welder
torch
bfh
various sockets wrenches
good floor jack,
jack stands

hope that helps.
it might be easier to do a body swap onto a 4wd frame.

good luck!

 

[87GMCJimmy]

ok so to answer your question,

yes none of the ifs stuff will be used

you will need a front axle
transfer case
front suspension
4wd engine brace

it can be expensive especially without your own tools

you might consider a divorced np 205 for your transfer case out of a ford
and a leaf sprung 70's ford dana 44 hi pinion out of an f250 preferably with disc brakes.

dodge made a pass side drop divorced np205 if you wanted to use a chevy axle. and i would use a corp 14bolt full floater rear instead of the dana 60. stronger and just as cheap.

for the engine brace offroad design makes a tubular one, or you can adapt a chevy one.

tools needed.
welder
torch
bfh
various sockets wrenches
good floor jack,
jack stands

hope that helps.
it might be easier to do a body swap onto a 4wd frame.

good luck!

Pretty much right on!
Except it can be done a bit more simply:
TONS of parts interchangability on these old GM's- works in your favor! I've seen many people do 2wd to 4wd conversions. Realistically, it wouldn't be much more than what you'd spend on building up a 4x4 anyway!

A Burb of that vintage comes (in 4wd) with a Dana 44 frontend which can found cheap being sold by somebody that is upgrading to a Dana 60, OR, you can get a 60 yourself!!!

You'd lift it so, either way, front springs are on the shopping list.

You'd want to switch to crossover steering for better offroad steering control anyway (here you're ahead of the game since it requires a 2wd steering box!). Crossover necessitates a tubular crossmember (like the ORD one mentioned) which you need for the 4wd conversion too!

A turbo 400 4wd tranny coupled to a 205 (ideally) or a 208 (super easy to find) can be found practically anywhere!

The rear axle in a Burb is at the beefiest a 14 bolt semi floater so, go ahead and upgrade to a 14 bolt full floater!

Easiest thing would be to find an old Military CUCV 5/4 ton pickup with a blown up motor and swap it's tranny (400), t-case (208 or (less common) 205), front axle (dana 60), and rear axle (14 bolt full floater with a Detroit locker) into your 'Burb!

To do a nice beefy build, you will need some things in addition to what I have stated thus far BUT all can be obtained aftermarket:
front spring hangers (DIY4X's B52 kit would be perfect!!!) (or, you can drill out the rivets from a stock 4x4 setup and bolt it to your rig)
front spring rear shackle mounts (ORD's front upper shackle hangar kit would be perfect) (or, you can drill out the rivets from a stock 4x4 setup and bolt it to your rig)
front spring plates and new u-bolts
Swap kit for the 14bff (necessary for CUCV axle swap as 1 ton springpad width is different than half ton, not necessary with a 3/4 ton 14bff)
rear shackle flip (ORD, DIY4X, and countless others make 'em!)
longer brake hoses
new shocks front and rear (plus superduty Ford (yes Ford, DOH!) front shock mounts work great (the pressed ones are easier to utilize than the cast ones, I run pressed one's on my GMC)
new front and rear bumpstops

plus already stated things:
ORD crossover steering conversion
ORD or DIY4X or many others tubular engine crossmember
4wd turbo 400 and t-case (and accompanying driveshafts and crossmembers)
Dana 60
Corparate 14 bolt
(you could use other axles such as a front 44 or ten bolt and a rear 14 bolt semi floater but, why go to the effort if you'll end up wanting to upgrade them later plus, with all the weight of an expedition style Burb, the beefier the axles the better!!!)
front lift springs
some floorboard massaging or a body lift (the 2wd's don't have the high hump needed to clear a 4wd drivetrain)

It's a bit expensive BUT, most of these things are mods that you'd do making a beefy 4x4 anyway, my Jimmy K5 started out as a 4wd from the factory and has every mod I listed other than the B52's and the F.U.S.H. kit plus several I didn't list!

There's only a couple vehicles that are easier to convert from 2wd to 4wd than a square body GM (that I can think of):
XJ's, ZJ's, and JK's
Twin I-Beam converting to Twin Traction Beam Fords.

BUT, word of warning: if you don't have your own tools and the knowledge to use them, don't do this, it'll be VERY expensive to have someone do it for you (very labor intensive!)!!!

 

[bldeagle10]

thank you guys for the info! that helped alot. i will have to save all this info.

it was mentioned that it may be easier to body swap. this actually may be the best route in my mind. i wanted the body off the frame to do alot of the suspensional work and beef up the frame a bit and such. and if i can find a rolling frame i could get ahead of the game and build it up before even touching the body.

only part im stumped on with this is, how the hell am i going to get the huge burban body off the frame? maybe if i cant find some easy way to do this i can buy some rectangular tubing and build my own custom "rotissery" stand and put the body on it. which would be great for body work. if anyone has any other ideas to what they have done or seen done with that dont be afraid to shoot them at me!

:edit:
and again THANK YOU GUYS! it never ceases to amaze me how, not only smart, but genuinely helpful yal are. i grew up around race cars with my dad (you name it ive probably worked on it from indy cars to pro trucks) but my first ventures off on my own involved (unfortunately) street racing and i was big into the honda crowd and let me tell you. they are a bunch of obnoxious [censored words]. dont get me wrong a few were helpful and nice. but for the most part you couldnt get a word out without recieving extreme and sometimes harsh criticism. when i got my jeep from my dad, i was reintroduced to this side of the automotive world. i grew up camping and offroading and i forgot how nice it is to be around this "crowd" sometimes i do miss the ole 99 Civic Si, and one day i will own one. but for now im glad to be doing this. so again, thank you all.

 

[bldeagle10]

:/ made the mistake of looking at craigslist. 76 burban body frame new front rear axles good tires and wheels and tcase for sale. (rest was parted out) man...i hate being a broke college kid right now lol. this summer thats getting changed.

so forgot to ask. what year frame am i going to have to look for if i go that route which may happen. im guessing 73-88 i think those are the years for my body style at least... (its a 75)

 

[87GMCJimmy]

Body off the frame:
First, disassemble the front clip (grille, core support, inner/outer fenders and all) this will get you to just having to worry about lifting the cabin area portion of the body. Easiest way to do it is a four post lift (if you are lucky enough to have access to one!). Of course, you have to disconnect everything that runs between the body and the frame (unbolt all body mounts, steering and transmission linkages, all the wiring needs disconnected, etc).

I can tell you exactly how I would think to do the removal but, I have never done it so, it would be theoretical! :coffeedrink:

I am sure somebody here has so, they'll chime in!

If your frame is in good shape, I would be very tempted to just pull it out and modify it. After all, most of the drivetrain that'd be ideal under a Burb never came under one anyway!!! :sombrero:


EDIT: there's one other thing I forgot to add to the list of things you need- a steering box area frame re-inforcement weld on patch! The frames of fullsize GMs like to tear apart at the steering box, so add a weld on frame patch! ORD and many others make them, I got my frame patch and box brace from ORD.

 

[Token]

Buy another one that's a 4x4 and swap bodies woudl be the easiest way to convert it to 4wd..

And.. If you're gonna beef up the rear to D60, don't whimp out on the front with a D44.. Put a D60 up front as well.. A D44 won't hold up very long on something that big if it gets wheeled any.. Personally.. GM 14 bolt with a 10.5" ring gear in the rear, D60 (9 3/4" ring gear) up front..