BFG MT vs Falken Wildpeak AT4: Sidewall Toughness

[bajajoaquin]

I just got back from Baja in my 24’ Class C 4x4 that I upgraded with U-Joint 6” suspension. It already went better on washboard roads than the original Salem-Kroger setup, but I went with 6” to fit 255/85 tires (more about that decision another time). I didn’t have time to swap out my 235/85-16s (wildpeak at3s) for 255s.

First time I took this camper to Baja, I took over 3 hours to go 25 miles on washboard. I tried airing down to 60 psi from 80 in the rear, but got a sidewall puncture. So the point of the exercise was to change the three variables I could: softer springs, softer shocks, and softer tires. By going up to 255s (Which Chris says he uses on stock Ford duals), I’ll be able to run lower pressures with the same safety.

Which leads me to my actual question. Tire choices are limited in 255/85r16. BFG is my preference because of long term reputation. But they’re mud terrains. The Wildpeak is available in AT4 version. My earlier sidewall puncture may not be because of an inherent lack of toughness but I’d like to maximize my chances.

What are the opinions here on sidewall durability?

(Other tires available are:
Toyo open country MT
Cooper Discoverer ST Maxx

 

[86scotty]

I like Toyos. I had Toyo 255/85-16's on my MH and I know exactly why you went with 255's. I had E-rated Open Country A/T's. This was years ago and I think they were the first Open Country A/T.

Personally I would not run M/T's on a motorhome. I'd run A/T's, but that's just me.

Also, I'd drop pressure a LOT more than 60. Hell, 60 is about as high as I run on road with E-rated tires. Offroad I drop E-rated tires to about 20, no matter what they are on. Never had a sidewall puncture. That could be luck.

I've heard great things about the Cooper ST Maxx's but never tried them.

The toughest, most long lasting off-road tires I've ever had were Good Year Dura-Tracs. But they are expensive and loud.

 

[carterd]

I'm on my 2nd set of Cooper ST Maxx 255/85-16 on my 80 series. They work really well in the Arizona desert, where jagged rocks and mean cacti are abundant. They are E load range which typically implies a tougher sidewall. They are a fairly aggressive all-terrain, but should get better mpg than a mud terrain.

 

[bajajoaquin]

I like Toyos. I had Toyo 255/85-16's on my MH and I know exactly why you went with 255's. I had E-rated Open Country A/T's. This was years ago and I think they were the first Open Country A/T.

Personally I would not run M/T's on a motorhome. I'd run A/T's, but that's just me.

Also, I'd drop pressure a LOT more than 60. Hell, 60 is about as high as I run on road with E-rated tires. Offroad I drop E-rated tires to about 20, no matter what they are on. Never had a sidewall puncture. That could be luck.

I've heard great things about the Cooper ST Maxx's but never tried them.

The toughest, most long lasting off-road tires I've ever had were Good Year Dura-Tracs. But they are expensive and loud.

How big was your motorhome and how much did it weigh?

 

[86scotty]

2005 Itasca Cambria 26 foot?

Believe it or not that's lifted a few inches on 255s but it wasn't nearly enough.

Google says dry weight on it was only 11,000 pounds. That seems awful low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bajajoaquin]

2005 Itasca Cambria 26 foot?

Believe it or not that's lifted a few inches on 255s but it wasn't nearly enough.

Google says dry weight on it was only 11,000 pounds. That seems awful low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So you’re a little lighter than me but still heavy. I’m 14,500 loaded up for a trip. Down at 60 psi I was really on the sidewalls more than expected. I used to run down at 25 and 30 on my loaded F-350 and 40 when it had a Lance but the ‘Bunga is a whole lotta weight.

But that’s why I’m hoping 255s will be a meaningful improvement in this regard.

Thanks!

 

[bajajoaquin]

And since things don’t exist without pics….

 

[86scotty]

Sold mine a few years ago. Looks like you've got the same challenge I had being about 10' behind the rear wheels. Hard to get any departure at all with all that a** back there.

 

[bajajoaquin]

It’s really not so bad. With the lift and tires it hasn’t been a problem for me at all. But that’s probably because I have very modest expectations of off road capability. I expect it to be a good traction vehicle, and not a vehicle for ‘wheeling at all. It needs to handle sandy beach sections, muddy dirt roads, and the occasional wash-out detour. I’m not going to take it up some two-track exploring.

 

[montechie]

Cooper ST Maxx are extremely tough, I would (and have) put them against anything else after 3 sets, BUT have gotten really expensive the last couple years in relation to similar tires. Lots of time in shale, snow, ice, mud, nails etc with them. Never chunked a tread or got a flat, even with pallet nails sticking in them. Better in mud than the KO2 a bit better in snow, probably not as good in mud as a KM3 (I assume this is the BFG MT you have). Haven't been on a AT4w, just the AT3w, that one is probably better in snow than the ST Maxx I would say, but not mud. So far the AT3w seems tough, which it better be at it's weight. The ST Maxx might wear fast like a MT on a heavy rig, it's a pretty tacky rubber, I bet the AT4w would last longer mileage-wise.

Any chance you could go wider to 11-11.5"? A 285/75r16 is much more common and drastically increases your choices but is an inch wider.

 

[IdaSHO]

The Toyo AT2 and new AT3 should certainly be added to the list. We currently have 35k on our set of AT2s and if we didnt live in snow country, we would likely get another 25k out of this set. Instead, we will likely swap them
out in another 8-10k. Absolutely incredible to me given what they put up with under our truck and camper. When we do buy new tires, will be sticking with Toyos, and going with the newest AT, the AT3. I hear its even better than the AT2, which in my experience will be hard to beat.

 

[charlieaarons]

Admittedly big Unimog tires, but thinking about pressure decrease as a percentage rather than throwing out numbers like “60” and “20”, which are totally application dependent, might be more universally relevant. The lower the aspect ratio, the less pressure decrease is appropriate.
Beadlocks are very relevant at low pressures.

 

[bajajoaquin]

View attachment 828929
Admittedly big Unimog tires, but thinking about pressure decrease as a percentage rather than throwing out numbers like “60” and “20”, which are totally application dependent, might be more universally relevant. The lower the aspect ratio, the less pressure decrease is appropriate.
Beadlocks are very relevant at low pressures.

The limitation I’m seeing is the tire being on its sidewall even at relatively high pressures. That resulted in a sidewall puncture the very first time I took the camper to Baja. It was a hassle with my brother, but would be a bigger deal with my wife and kids. So I’m pretty risk averse in this regard. The goal is to put on bigger tires that can be run relatively softer before getting the sidewalls down.

 

[charlieaarons]

As a gross generalization, “taller” tires - higher aspect ratio, therefore on the smallest wheels that will fit over brakes, are best, for sidewall protection and best ride off highway, and most able to take advantage off highway of significant deflation to improve ride, traction and flotation.
Also the narrowest wheels will tend to expose sidewalls the least, and be least prone to de-beading at low pressure.
I don’t know if 16s will even fit over current 3/4-1 ton brakes anymore. But for example, if one has a choice of stock 17s or optional 20s, take the 17s.
I won’t wax too poetically about steel sidewalls and the very thick sidewall rubber in true HD/military tires, except that it’s very desirable if you can fit them to your application.
Last, if the tire size is even semi unusual, or if you’re going to remote areas, out of the country/far from home, carrying a second unmounted spare is IMHO a good idea, if you can find a place to put it.

 

[bajajoaquin]

Thanks. That’s a lot of good info.

It already has 16s on there, so that’s not an issue. It seems that I’m on the right track.