Ford F350 Superduty - Where to tap electrical system for 100 Amp DC-DC charger load?

[goffredo]

I upgraded to a 2024 F350 for my slide-in camper. It has dual batteries, a 410 amp alternator, and the upfitter switches option.

I'd like to wire up a DC-DC charger load -- dual 50 amp DC-DC charge controllers (Victron Orion XS 12/12-50A) wired in parallel, and operator-controlled by an switch -- to charge the battery in my camper.

I'm not sure the best place to tap into the electrical system for this. I'm comfortable with 12VDC stuff, but this is a new truck with a lot of upfitter systems that I'm not familiar with.

- Upfitter switches 5 & 6 max out at 40 amps, can't use those

- There are two batteries! Considering the Battery Charge Protect system and alternator proximity, is there any reason I should prefer one over the other?

- Is it necessary to go to the trouble of engaging the Stationary Elevated Idle Control (SEIC) as part of switching on the DC-DC chargers when parked? Or does the Battery Charge Protect (BCP) automatically take care of this as the Body Builders Layout Book hints at?

- The OEM positive battery lugs are very much not conducive to slapping a big 5/16" 2/0 AWG lug! I'm eyeing a bulge on the driver's side battery lug as a prospective spot to drill in a lug, as this appears to have been done stock on the passenger battery (albeit with a puny little 16-AWG wire)

 

[andy_b]

I upgraded to a 2024 F350 for my slide-in camper. It has dual batteries, a 410 amp alternator, and the upfitter switches option.

I'd like to wire up a DC-DC charger load -- dual 50 amp DC-DC charge controllers (Victron Orion XS 12/12-50A) wired in parallel, and operator-controlled by an switch -- to charge the battery in my camper.

I'm not sure the best place to tap into the electrical system for this. I'm comfortable with 12VDC stuff, but this is a new truck with a lot of upfitter systems that I'm not familiar with.

- Upfitter switches 5 & 6 max out at 40 amps, can't use those

- There are two batteries! Considering the Battery Charge Protect system and alternator proximity, is there any reason I should prefer one over the other?

- Is it necessary to go to the trouble of engaging the Stationary Elevated Idle Control (SEIC) as part of switching on the DC-DC chargers when parked? Or does the Battery Charge Protect (BCP) automatically take care of this as the Body Builders Layout Book hints at?

- The OEM positive battery lugs are very much not conducive to slapping a big 5/16" 2/0 AWG lug! I'm eyeing a bulge on the driver's side battery lug as a prospective spot to drill in a lug, as this appears to have been done stock on the passenger battery (albeit with a puny little 16-AWG wire)

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I have the same truck and installed a Victron Orion XS.

The easiest and cleanest install IMHO is to use these terminal blocks and ferrules: https://www.knukonceptz.com/product/ultimate-automotive-car-battery-terminal-v2-postive-negative/. Do not drill into the terminal. You don’t necessarily need to activate the high idle or worry about battery protection. I would program the Victron to act the way you want and save the upfitter switches for other things. You can also turn off the charger completely via the app. The negative should either go to the frame or be upstream of the shunt on the negative terminal of the passenger side batter. It is the gray box in the pic you posted.

Not near the truck now but will try to send some pics of the terminals in case that solution doesn’t make sense.

 

[goffredo]

Those terminal blocks look perfect, thank you very much for that product recommendation, I had no idea such things existed and I really wanted to avoid drilling, cutting, and otherwise hacking on my brand new truck!

Does your Orion XS pull a consistant 50 amps when the coach battery is low? Or does it jump around underutilized between 30-45 amps, like I've seen them do with modern alternators?

 

[andy_b]

Those terminal blocks look perfect, thank you very much for that product recommendation, I had no idea such things existed and I really wanted to avoid drilling, cutting, and otherwise hacking on my brand new truck!

Does your Orion XS pull a consistant 50 amps when the coach battery is low? Or does it jump around underutilized between 30-45 amps, like I've seen them do with modern alternators?

I don’t watch it continuously, but it should be a consistent 50a just based on its charge profile. The times I have been watching it has been ~48-50A consistently. The voltage can fluctuate, but the whole purpose of the device is to deliver constant amperage with varying input voltage. In case it isn’t obvious, the charge profile should be for “smart alternators” rather than standard. On my truck, the standard profile allowed the voltage to rise to 15V output which the truck’s computers did not like, resulting in some dash lights. Once I changed the profile to smart alternator it has been fine.

 

[Bayou Boy]

I have a 2023 Tremor F350 that I am currently building out the electrical system of an ATO Atlas I recently bought. Originally I was going to go the route you want to with an Orion. I have solar on the top of the Atlas that should do most of the work of house battery charging. I decided that since I have access to a 2000 watt inverter in the bed of the truck I am just going to use a simple LiOn 120v charger that I can connect to the house battery with quick disconnects to charge on the road. Simple and easy and I can also use the same charger to top off the house battery at home or wherever if need be. This will also keep my camper electrical 100% separate from the truck.

Your slide in might have an converter/charger built into the AC system. I would wire into that and just plug the camper directly into the bed inverter. In that case you already have both a charger in your slide in camper and AC power from the truck. Why not just use that?

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

How far is it from the crank battery(s) to the batteries you want to charge and what are they?
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[andy_b]

I have a 2023 Tremor F350 that I am currently building out the electrical system of an ATO Atlas I recently bought. Originally I was going to go the route you want to with an Orion. I have solar on the top of the Atlas that should do most of the work of house battery charging. I decided that since I have access to a 2000 watt inverter in the bed of the truck I am just going to use a simple LiOn 120v charger that I can connect to the house battery with quick disconnects to charge on the road. Simple and easy and I can also use the same charger to top off the house battery at home or wherever if need be. This will also keep my camper electrical 100% separate from the truck.

Your slide in might have an converter/charger built into the AC system. I would wire into that and just plug the camper directly into the bed inverter. In that case you already have both a charger in your slide in camper and AC power from the truck. Why not just use that?

Most AC chargers output 30A, like this Victron. The solution described would indeed work but seems clunky. Victron’s AC compatible charger that would output 50A (equal to one Orion XS in question the OP was asking about) costs about $150 more than the Orion. Accessing the outlets for the Ford inverter while the camper is in the bed would also be a slight (but solvable) hassle. Having a DC/DC charger would still keep your camper 100% separate electrically, you’re just making the connection in a slightly different area. Finally, the OP plans on wiring two Orions in parallel to increase his output to 100A - no reasonably priced AC charger is going to have that kind of output available for the $$$ of the Orions.

Honestly, this is not the worst idea; it just seems weird to me to invert DC to AC and then convert AC back to DC to charge the batteries. Increasing the amperage via a DC/DC charger is more efficient on paper, but with Ford’s dual alternators there is definitely plenty of capacity.

 

[Bayou Boy]

Most AC chargers output 30A, like this Victron. The solution described would indeed work but seems clunky. Victron’s AC compatible charger that would output 50A (equal to one Orion XS in question the OP was asking about) costs about $150 more than the Orion. Accessing the outlets for the Ford inverter while the camper is in the bed would also be a slight (but solvable) hassle. Having a DC/DC charger would still keep your camper 100% separate electrically, you’re just making the connection in a slightly different area. Finally, the OP plans on wiring two Orions in parallel to increase his output to 100A - no reasonably priced AC charger is going to have that kind of output available for the $$$ of the Orions.

Honestly, this is not the worst idea; it just seems weird to me to invert DC to AC and then convert AC back to DC to charge the batteries. Increasing the amperage via a DC/DC charger is more efficient on paper, but with Ford’s dual alternators there is definitely plenty of capacity.

I missed the dual Orion part. Although having owned a myriad of campers from the current Atlas and an ATC popup to a Lance Truck Camper all the way through a 40ft 5th wheel with 1000 watts on the roof and a 45ft full electric diesel pusher with a 12kw generator I really can't imagine a scenario where 100 amps from the engine is remotely necessary on a truck camper. My 45ft bus had dual Magnasyne inverter/chargers that together outputted around 200 amps for an enormous 780AH house bank and that was way overkill. It is extremely easy to get a few dozen amps from solar and solar will charge simultaneously with any other charge source. But if 100 amps to the TC batteries is what he needs then dual Orions is the answer.

Regarding charging from the built in factory inverter the AC power is available no matter what so there is zero additional work there. It can also be turned on and off from a factory switch on the dash. My suggestion would be to use the likely built in converter in the truck camper to charge the batteries so there is zero additional cost there except for wiring a 120v plug into the system that you plug in when you plug in the 7 way and put the camper in the bed. You would leave it plugged in 100% of the time the camper is in the bed. Most RV converters are 45 amps and up so he's halfway there already. Add 400 watts of solar which most people want anyway and you have another potential 25 amps. IMHO this is actually simpler than a DC-DC charger since the power is already available.

Using DC to power AC then back to DC does seem odd and did until I watched a video of an Australian off-grid company doing just that with a travel trailer. Then it clicked and made so much sense. No huge DC cables to run. Built in power from the factory. And that power is already where you need it...in the bed. My Atlas Lithium will be powered primarily from 200 watts on the roof but if that's not enough I will use a 20 amp charger plugged into the bed 120v outlet. I only have a single 100AH battery so a small 20a charger is plenty. If your solar system is sized appropriately then most charging outside of that should be necessary only occasionally.
Trucks are being built differently today with much more capabilities than ever before and we have opportunities to do things differently also. It's just a different mindset.

@goffredo how large is your camper battery bank and do you have a solar setup installed or in the plan? I understand that's not what you asked but I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that you needed 100amps from the truck.