I can't go into the proprietary way the tub and top are bonded, but I have zero worries this seam can leak even with rigorous offroad use. Time and use will prove things out, though.
Supertramp Flagship HT – Hard-sided Slide-in 6.5' Pickup Camper
- Thread starter Chadx
- Start date
I can't go into the proprietary way the tub and top are bonded, but I have zero worries this seam can leak even with rigorous offroad use. Time and use will prove things out, though.
Like DTA said, The 'Truma Combi' propane cabin and water heater is standard. The 'Truma Combi Plus' is an optional upgrade and adds a 120v 20amp plug for running the cabin heater and water heater off shore power, propane, or a combination of both (prioritizing electric and making up the difference with propane). Electric draw can be set to two levels. I'll detail that system more in the coming days.
Another interesting, and new, upgrade option is the Diesel version of the Truma Combi which also replaces the propane stove with induction cooktop making a propane-free camper. The diesel version includes it's own small diesel tank so doesn't matter if your pickup is diesel or gas. The camper is removable, so Supertramp makes it self contained, but aftermarket, one could always make the pickup's diesel tank the fuel source for a larger supply. Typically the heaters diesel probe is of a length that it will only draw your fuel tank down to 25% and no more. That way it won't strand you by sucking your fuel tank dry in the middle of nowhere.
Not a big fan of the outside design (I would have to see it in person for a better view), but I really like what they did on the interior with the windows. So much light from the upper windows - great job, STC team!
This is not a camper I would purchase, but that is due to my use case being very different. I also have not seen this in person - so, my feedback may be different once I have seen one. But with that out of the way, here are my initials thoughts.
- I love the windows and the light they provide
- Love the additional storage and that it is easier to access
- This thing is ready for some really cold weather (yay). I would definitely feel confident taking this to the arctic circle in February.
- Great job with the Molle panel placement
Here are my initial thoughts about making it even "better" (better in the eye of the beholder):
1) I would definitely like to see an HT with the driver-side lower window.
2) Make the cabinets near the bed a tiny little bit deeper. I'd think 1-2 inch would go a long way.
3) Embedd power outlets (at least USB-C) into the cabinets near the bed so that it is easier to charge phones overnight
4) I can already see myself bumping my head at the over-the-sink corner cabinet when washing my face. Personally, I would extend the cabinet further down to move the edge further down or make it a shelf below so that the edge is further down
5) Use the cabinets to add some mood light options
6) Get rid of the rear window and rather put a larger door in.
7) Fill the space under the cabinets with an open shelf that can be detached if needed. That way a smaller person could still sleep on that bench.
I saw a sneak-photo before I went down and at first, I wasn't sure how the black belt would look. Not sure if it was because I had a bit of time between seeing that image and seeing it in person or if images don't do it justice, but from the first time I saw it in person, I thought it looked great. I do kind of like the photoshopped images above with camper-colored trim, too. Not better; just different. Will be interesting to see the HT in other colors, too.
It did great in the cold. My nights out were 15F, 3F, 17F ambient temperature. And it was really a secure, sturdy feeling. And open without the two internal actuators of the pop-top version. I'll go more into the experience in the coming days.
I like a lot of your suggestions and I'll comment in order.
1) I would definitely like to see an HT with the driver-side lower window. - Same! We love the drive-side window in our LT, but I'm curious to see what it looks like from the outside with the hard top windows.
2) Make the cabinets near the bed a tiny little bit deeper. I'd think 1-2 inch would go a long way. - Would be good to have them prototype that and see how it effects the feel. I use both cabinets a lot and was much nicer grabbing often-used things from these cabinets than from underbench storage.
3) Embed power outlets (at least USB-C) into the cabinets near the bed so that it is easier to charge phones overnight - They have a USB outlet and one Truma vent. Also some openings for side access. More images in the coming days.
4) I can already see myself bumping my head at the over-the-sink corner cabinet when washing my face. Personally, I would extend the cabinet further down to move the edge further down or make it a shelf below so that the edge is further down - I washed my face, brushed teeth, etc. and never had an issue. Don't recall thinking about it so it is either not in the way or I subconsciously avoided disaster! Ha.
5) Use the cabinets to add some mood light options - I like your style.
6) Get rid of the rear window and rather put a larger door in. - That would be an interesting design issue. Worth mentioning to the team. I'm sure they considered it and the complications/cost out weight the return. But you're right in that most hard top buyers might expect a taller door. Coming from three different pop-top campers, it didn't even occur to me. Good perspective.
7) Fill the space under the cabinets with an open shelf that can be detached if needed. That way a smaller person could still sleep on that bench. - They have introduced one design of shelving option for the LT called the "microwave shelf" (but it can be used for anything of course). Not really compatible with the cabinet because it is too tall, but perhaps a shorter version. One does start to run out of real estate because of the control panels and cold air return. I liked the idea of that cabinet running all the way down, but that would require a fair bit of redesign for the control panel (since each control sits in a molded in depression in the side panel), but there is also the challenge of the silverware drawer clearance if controls were moved out and up to that level.
DTAdventure
Well-known member
Great ton of info, @Chadx. I love the level of detail you are providing. Like you I am not concerned about the quality of the camper or that seam between top and bottom. Having a Supertramp LT before and knowing Kelsey and Keith, the STC team, and how they strive for perfection - that seam would not concern me at all. I am sure we will see a ton of small and large improvements over time that will make the HT even better. Great job, Supertramp. Keep innovating
Driving impressions
I own a Flagship LT mounted on a 2024 Ford Superduty F250 Supercab with 7.3L gasser and 10 speed automatic, stock suspension, and 285/75R18 tires (about 35"). The Flagship HT, that I used for four days/three nights of winter camping, was mounted on a 2022 Ford Superduty Supercrew diesel with Carli 3.5” suspension lift and 37”x12.5” tires and stock anti-sway bar. The difference in engine and suspension/tires made it challenging to directly compare handling, aerodynamics, gas mileage, etc. vs. my Flagship LT, but I was pleasantly surprised in the lack of difference. However, since the HT is targeting a different buyer than the pop-top buyer, no need to strictly compare those two. I'll share my driving impressions from the perspective of someone simply jumping into a rig and driving. And in that regard, I just drove this setup like any other pickup.
That these campers are so light weight helps tremendously (around 1,400lb dry as previously mentioned). With the high roof line, I expected a significant impact from head/side winds and fair amount of body roll in low speed swerves and high speed curves, however, the body roll was slight and there was no need to slow down to suggested curve speeds. I just kept my foot in it and rounded the curves at or above the primary speed limit. To ensure an on-time-arrival, at a rendezvous point with friends in their Flagship LT camper, my first two hours driving was “spirited”. The curvy mountain highway climbed up and down a mountain pass and presented an opportunity to experience the effect the Flagship HT, suspension lift and 37s had on handling.
There were also several sections of highway where digital signs warned of dangerous crosswinds. Flying flags reinforced that warning as they stood out straight like they were made of tin. 90 degree crosswinds to start out and later, head winds. In both situations, I was again surprised at how little impact the winds had.
In curves and winds, everything remained surprisingly composed. So much so that I would expect any drivers, even inexperienced pickup and camper drivers, to feel comfortable in this rig, much less a pickup with standard suspension and tires. Not sure why I expected there to be more of a difference, but that expectation wasn't warranted.
Target buyer for the Flagship HT
Many van drivers seem to be changing over to hard-sided pickup-campers as they look to move away from some "reliability challenged" camper van brands. Besides the typical heavy duty pickup being quite reliable, if there are issues, parts are readily available as are dealerships or private garages that can quickly make a repair and get you back on the road. Even scheduled maintenance is more convenient with the wider availability of garages that can/will work on pickups vs some brand camper vans.
Other van owners realize they enjoy dispersed camping and trail driving. Even a modified van can “run out of talent” in terrain that a basic 4x4 pickup readily handles. There is also the benefit of being able to move a removable pickup camper from one pickup to another should the owner rack up a lot of miles or simply desire a move to the latest pickup generation.
Some hard sided pickup campers are large and heavy enough to have a significant impact on driving performance both on and offroad. Those campers can be 10 feet long or more. Many require a pickup with extremely high payload capacity (5,000+ lbs). While there are certainly some benefits to such campers, for those that want to explore off the pavement, be more nimble on-road, or still use their rig as a daily driver, medium-sized and lighter-weight hard-sides campers are more adept.
As noted previously, in STC's research, they found there isn't as much cross-shopping between hard-sided and pop-top campers as one might expect. Still, for those making the comparison between this size hard side vs a typical pop-up, the impactful differences are few. Since the HT weight and handling are similar to the LT, the same pickups would hangle either. Driving feel, on and offroad and in wind, is similar. So the main deciding factor might be physical height restrictions. That would include overhead obstacles in town or out on the trails (tree branches, rock overhangs, off camber trails where the extra height might lean the higher roofline into trailside obstacles). Also there should be consideration for parking and storage, be that garage/shop door clearance with truck loaded or the same if the camper will be removed and stored indoors when removed from the camper (moved into garage on a dolly, etc.)
At Camp
At camp, the HT felt sound and secure. Compared to my soft-side, there is a noticeable isolation from noise and wind. I compare that isolation to a standard vehicles vs a luxury vehicle with a lot of sound dampening. Both have their own feel. A soft-top, like tent camping, lets you experience the surrounding sounds (for better or worse) and wind/weather. It's a bit more raw experience. Hard-tops dampen you from surroundings a bit more, giving a more secure, snug feeling.
Overnight temps, for the three nights, were 15F, 3F and 17F ambient. The Truma Combi ran surprisingly little with the thermostat set to 62F at night. I'd raise or lower the thermostat based on activities at hand. Up to 70F at times (warm up before bed or in the morning getting up, changing clothes, etc.) and down in the 50s if dressed for outside temps but popping in the camper for a lunch break, etc.
The Truma blower can be set to two different settings (Eco and High) and the lowest is nearly imperceptible but easily keeps up with winter conditions. The higher setting will move more air for faster warm ups, but is not really needed from a circulation perspective because the three different vent locations. There is a third 'Boost' fan speed, that is only automatically initiated. That occurs if the set point and actual cabin temperature differ by more than 10F. More Truma Combi details and specs will come in a later post.
The general feel of both Flagship models (LT and HT) are spacious and open due to the layout. Even with overhead cabinets, my opinion is the HT felt even more spacious. Part of that might be the lack of two internal actuators near the cabover. But there is something about the hard sides rather than fabric, and the six large windows that really opens up the feel (even with the ceiling being 3” lower than the LT).
Some exterior images from day one afternoon and day 2 morning:
I own a Flagship LT mounted on a 2024 Ford Superduty F250 Supercab with 7.3L gasser and 10 speed automatic, stock suspension, and 285/75R18 tires (about 35"). The Flagship HT, that I used for four days/three nights of winter camping, was mounted on a 2022 Ford Superduty Supercrew diesel with Carli 3.5” suspension lift and 37”x12.5” tires and stock anti-sway bar. The difference in engine and suspension/tires made it challenging to directly compare handling, aerodynamics, gas mileage, etc. vs. my Flagship LT, but I was pleasantly surprised in the lack of difference. However, since the HT is targeting a different buyer than the pop-top buyer, no need to strictly compare those two. I'll share my driving impressions from the perspective of someone simply jumping into a rig and driving. And in that regard, I just drove this setup like any other pickup.
That these campers are so light weight helps tremendously (around 1,400lb dry as previously mentioned). With the high roof line, I expected a significant impact from head/side winds and fair amount of body roll in low speed swerves and high speed curves, however, the body roll was slight and there was no need to slow down to suggested curve speeds. I just kept my foot in it and rounded the curves at or above the primary speed limit. To ensure an on-time-arrival, at a rendezvous point with friends in their Flagship LT camper, my first two hours driving was “spirited”. The curvy mountain highway climbed up and down a mountain pass and presented an opportunity to experience the effect the Flagship HT, suspension lift and 37s had on handling.
There were also several sections of highway where digital signs warned of dangerous crosswinds. Flying flags reinforced that warning as they stood out straight like they were made of tin. 90 degree crosswinds to start out and later, head winds. In both situations, I was again surprised at how little impact the winds had.
In curves and winds, everything remained surprisingly composed. So much so that I would expect any drivers, even inexperienced pickup and camper drivers, to feel comfortable in this rig, much less a pickup with standard suspension and tires. Not sure why I expected there to be more of a difference, but that expectation wasn't warranted.
Target buyer for the Flagship HT
Many van drivers seem to be changing over to hard-sided pickup-campers as they look to move away from some "reliability challenged" camper van brands. Besides the typical heavy duty pickup being quite reliable, if there are issues, parts are readily available as are dealerships or private garages that can quickly make a repair and get you back on the road. Even scheduled maintenance is more convenient with the wider availability of garages that can/will work on pickups vs some brand camper vans.
Other van owners realize they enjoy dispersed camping and trail driving. Even a modified van can “run out of talent” in terrain that a basic 4x4 pickup readily handles. There is also the benefit of being able to move a removable pickup camper from one pickup to another should the owner rack up a lot of miles or simply desire a move to the latest pickup generation.
Some hard sided pickup campers are large and heavy enough to have a significant impact on driving performance both on and offroad. Those campers can be 10 feet long or more. Many require a pickup with extremely high payload capacity (5,000+ lbs). While there are certainly some benefits to such campers, for those that want to explore off the pavement, be more nimble on-road, or still use their rig as a daily driver, medium-sized and lighter-weight hard-sides campers are more adept.
As noted previously, in STC's research, they found there isn't as much cross-shopping between hard-sided and pop-top campers as one might expect. Still, for those making the comparison between this size hard side vs a typical pop-up, the impactful differences are few. Since the HT weight and handling are similar to the LT, the same pickups would hangle either. Driving feel, on and offroad and in wind, is similar. So the main deciding factor might be physical height restrictions. That would include overhead obstacles in town or out on the trails (tree branches, rock overhangs, off camber trails where the extra height might lean the higher roofline into trailside obstacles). Also there should be consideration for parking and storage, be that garage/shop door clearance with truck loaded or the same if the camper will be removed and stored indoors when removed from the camper (moved into garage on a dolly, etc.)
At Camp
At camp, the HT felt sound and secure. Compared to my soft-side, there is a noticeable isolation from noise and wind. I compare that isolation to a standard vehicles vs a luxury vehicle with a lot of sound dampening. Both have their own feel. A soft-top, like tent camping, lets you experience the surrounding sounds (for better or worse) and wind/weather. It's a bit more raw experience. Hard-tops dampen you from surroundings a bit more, giving a more secure, snug feeling.
Overnight temps, for the three nights, were 15F, 3F and 17F ambient. The Truma Combi ran surprisingly little with the thermostat set to 62F at night. I'd raise or lower the thermostat based on activities at hand. Up to 70F at times (warm up before bed or in the morning getting up, changing clothes, etc.) and down in the 50s if dressed for outside temps but popping in the camper for a lunch break, etc.
The Truma blower can be set to two different settings (Eco and High) and the lowest is nearly imperceptible but easily keeps up with winter conditions. The higher setting will move more air for faster warm ups, but is not really needed from a circulation perspective because the three different vent locations. There is a third 'Boost' fan speed, that is only automatically initiated. That occurs if the set point and actual cabin temperature differ by more than 10F. More Truma Combi details and specs will come in a later post.
The general feel of both Flagship models (LT and HT) are spacious and open due to the layout. Even with overhead cabinets, my opinion is the HT felt even more spacious. Part of that might be the lack of two internal actuators near the cabover. But there is something about the hard sides rather than fabric, and the six large windows that really opens up the feel (even with the ceiling being 3” lower than the LT).
Some exterior images from day one afternoon and day 2 morning:
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Diving deeper into some of the components,
Battery bank and charging circuits:
The Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12-Volt 17 amp 120VAC charger is the standard AC/DC converter (battery charger). If you upgrade to larger battery banks and air conditioner packages, the 17amp charger is upped to a Progressive Dynamics 45amp charger as part of those packages.
The standard DC/DC charger is a Victron Orion 12v/12v - 30amp Non-isolated model. Unlike the AC/DC charger, the DC/DC charger does not change based on the battery size and air conditioner options you choose. The install includes a run of dedicated conductors from the pickup battery, through a fuse/breaker, then back to a connector, then into the camper to the Victron DC/DC charger. The truck-to-camper connector is mounted on the rear passenger side of the pickup bed. With the location of the connector and plug on the Flagship HT and LT, one can plug or unplug the DC connector at any time, unlike other campers that have the connector accessible only during loading/unloading but not once the camper is in position.
Your battery usage will dictate your replenishment needs, but I prefer to rely on the camper's solar panels to charge up the house battery bank on my Flagship LT. I typically leave the under hood DC breaker flipped open, but it's nice to be able to close the breaker and add DC/DC charging when needed. Some users will use enough energy where DC charging will be an integral part of their house battery replenishment.
30amp DC charging and 20amp solar charge rate from the solar array work well for smaller house battery sizes. But as energy-hungry accessories are added (Inverters, Starlink, DC Air Conditioners), larger and larger house battery banks are needed. Depleted house batteries need to be recharged so larger output charging sources are needed.
Supertramp offers an optional DC/DC charger upgrade to the Victron Orion XS 12/12-50A. Introduced in early 2024, the all-new 50amp DC charger is more efficient, smaller, and more powerful than the 12/12-30A. It requires a larger conductor size and that is included as part of the upgrade cost as your pickup and camper both will both receive the larger cabling.
STC is also considering an option for two 50amp DC chargers for larger battery banks. A 100amp charge rate would be warranted for 400Ah to 800Ah battery banks. More on battery banks later.
For those curious, dimension comparison is:
Orion TR Smart 12/12 - 30amp - 130 x 186 x 80 mm (5.1 x 7.3 x 3.2 inch)
Orion XS 12/12 - 50amp - 137.3 x 123.1 x 40 mm (5.4 x 4.85 x 1.6 inch)
Orion TR Smart 12/12-30
Datasheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...t-DC-DC-chargers-non-isolated-360-400W-EN.pdf
Page: https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated#downloads
Orion XS 12/12-50
Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...ion-XS-12-12-50A-DC-DC-battery-charger-EN.pdf
Page:https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-xs-12-12-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger#pd-nav-image
For the conductor loop lengths used on these camper-and-pickup installs, Victron recommends at least a 6AWG conductor for the 30amp charger and a 4AWG conductor for the 50amp charger. Historically, STC has used an 8AWG conductor for the 30amp charger which has proven to have too much voltage sag to get the full 30amp throughput, particularly with todays smart alternators that often run a lower sustained output voltage. They are evaluating conductor size changes and even if it makes sense to continue on offering the 30amp DC charger at all or move to the 50amp DC charger as standard. I'm urging them to move to a 50amp charger as standard as even with a single 100Ah battery bank, that is only a .5C charge rate; well within the tolerances of all Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) battery manufacturer recommended charge rates.
Since the mounting holes are a different spacing between the 30 amp and 50amp DC chargers, and the conductor run is an integral part of the camper wiring, it would also eliminate upgrade complications later, not to mention a simplified build and supply chain for the initial build. Should the 50amp become the standard DC charger, I'll make an update.
The campers are come standard with three 110-watt flexible solar panels (total of 330watts). The panels are wired in series and attached with Very High Bond (VHB) tape so they can be removed later if they ever need replacement. (VHB can be a challenge to remove, but there are a few techniques that make it a little easier).
Previously, STC Flagship campers came with Victron MPPT 75/15 solar controllers (75v max and 15amp max output), but has been increased to a Victron MPPT 100/20 solar controller to take better advantage of the three 110watt solar panels wired in series. The 20amp, at 14.6v output, will supply about 292watts to the house battery bank. The 330watts of solar is overpanelling the controller a bit, but that is good since there are hours of the day where each panel is cool enough with enough solar input to make max panel rating.
There is also an option for a external solar input. This includes a second, dedicated Victron 100/20 solar controller.
The below image shows a portion of the Flagship HT electronics cabinet. The shown solar charge controller and DC/DC charger are behind another panel and are accessed by tipping the front panel forward. All of the wiring is neat and tidy and these panels are wired on a electronics jig outside of the camper.
A Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor gauge is mounted in the electronics cabinet and it displays the battery stats (State of Charge, amps in/out, etc.). A Victron smart shunt is used which also allows monitoring with any mobile device via the Victron app and a Bluetooth connection.
A Blue Sea '1739200' Mini OLED Tank Meter gauge, that displays remaining freshwater tank level, is also mounted in that compartment.
This is the front panel. On the upper left and upper center are two latches that allow this front panel to release and tip forward. There is a blank are where the pop-top actuator breakers would typically be, but are unneeded for the hard top. Next is the fuse block then the Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12-Volt 17 amp 120VAC "shore power" charger.
Also shown are the battery heat switch, two larger Bussmann circuit breakers; The Main On/Off and Fuse Block On/Off, and button breakers for the Solar controller and the DC charger.
A close up of the fuse block.
Those familiar with STC know they have historically only used Battleborn brand batteries. Below is an image with Victron batteries in the Flagship HT. Victron packs 200Ah of capacity in a footprint similar to other battery 100Ah batteries. This will allow a max capacity, in the camper, of 800Ah rather than 400Ah. More details in a coming post related to how Victron does this and the house battery options/locations available for the Flagship HT (and the Flagship LT).
Battery bank and charging circuits:
The Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12-Volt 17 amp 120VAC charger is the standard AC/DC converter (battery charger). If you upgrade to larger battery banks and air conditioner packages, the 17amp charger is upped to a Progressive Dynamics 45amp charger as part of those packages.
Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12-Volt 17 amp 120VAC
The standard DC/DC charger is a Victron Orion 12v/12v - 30amp Non-isolated model. Unlike the AC/DC charger, the DC/DC charger does not change based on the battery size and air conditioner options you choose. The install includes a run of dedicated conductors from the pickup battery, through a fuse/breaker, then back to a connector, then into the camper to the Victron DC/DC charger. The truck-to-camper connector is mounted on the rear passenger side of the pickup bed. With the location of the connector and plug on the Flagship HT and LT, one can plug or unplug the DC connector at any time, unlike other campers that have the connector accessible only during loading/unloading but not once the camper is in position.
Your battery usage will dictate your replenishment needs, but I prefer to rely on the camper's solar panels to charge up the house battery bank on my Flagship LT. I typically leave the under hood DC breaker flipped open, but it's nice to be able to close the breaker and add DC/DC charging when needed. Some users will use enough energy where DC charging will be an integral part of their house battery replenishment.
30amp DC charging and 20amp solar charge rate from the solar array work well for smaller house battery sizes. But as energy-hungry accessories are added (Inverters, Starlink, DC Air Conditioners), larger and larger house battery banks are needed. Depleted house batteries need to be recharged so larger output charging sources are needed.
Supertramp offers an optional DC/DC charger upgrade to the Victron Orion XS 12/12-50A. Introduced in early 2024, the all-new 50amp DC charger is more efficient, smaller, and more powerful than the 12/12-30A. It requires a larger conductor size and that is included as part of the upgrade cost as your pickup and camper both will both receive the larger cabling.
STC is also considering an option for two 50amp DC chargers for larger battery banks. A 100amp charge rate would be warranted for 400Ah to 800Ah battery banks. More on battery banks later.
For those curious, dimension comparison is:
Orion TR Smart 12/12 - 30amp - 130 x 186 x 80 mm (5.1 x 7.3 x 3.2 inch)
Orion XS 12/12 - 50amp - 137.3 x 123.1 x 40 mm (5.4 x 4.85 x 1.6 inch)
Orion TR Smart 12/12-30
Datasheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...t-DC-DC-chargers-non-isolated-360-400W-EN.pdf
Page: https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-tr-smart-non-isolated#downloads
Orion XS 12/12-50
Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...ion-XS-12-12-50A-DC-DC-battery-charger-EN.pdf
Page:https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters/orion-xs-12-12-50a-dc-dc-battery-charger#pd-nav-image
For the conductor loop lengths used on these camper-and-pickup installs, Victron recommends at least a 6AWG conductor for the 30amp charger and a 4AWG conductor for the 50amp charger. Historically, STC has used an 8AWG conductor for the 30amp charger which has proven to have too much voltage sag to get the full 30amp throughput, particularly with todays smart alternators that often run a lower sustained output voltage. They are evaluating conductor size changes and even if it makes sense to continue on offering the 30amp DC charger at all or move to the 50amp DC charger as standard. I'm urging them to move to a 50amp charger as standard as even with a single 100Ah battery bank, that is only a .5C charge rate; well within the tolerances of all Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) battery manufacturer recommended charge rates.
Since the mounting holes are a different spacing between the 30 amp and 50amp DC chargers, and the conductor run is an integral part of the camper wiring, it would also eliminate upgrade complications later, not to mention a simplified build and supply chain for the initial build. Should the 50amp become the standard DC charger, I'll make an update.
The campers are come standard with three 110-watt flexible solar panels (total of 330watts). The panels are wired in series and attached with Very High Bond (VHB) tape so they can be removed later if they ever need replacement. (VHB can be a challenge to remove, but there are a few techniques that make it a little easier).
Previously, STC Flagship campers came with Victron MPPT 75/15 solar controllers (75v max and 15amp max output), but has been increased to a Victron MPPT 100/20 solar controller to take better advantage of the three 110watt solar panels wired in series. The 20amp, at 14.6v output, will supply about 292watts to the house battery bank. The 330watts of solar is overpanelling the controller a bit, but that is good since there are hours of the day where each panel is cool enough with enough solar input to make max panel rating.
There is also an option for a external solar input. This includes a second, dedicated Victron 100/20 solar controller.
The below image shows a portion of the Flagship HT electronics cabinet. The shown solar charge controller and DC/DC charger are behind another panel and are accessed by tipping the front panel forward. All of the wiring is neat and tidy and these panels are wired on a electronics jig outside of the camper.
A Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor gauge is mounted in the electronics cabinet and it displays the battery stats (State of Charge, amps in/out, etc.). A Victron smart shunt is used which also allows monitoring with any mobile device via the Victron app and a Bluetooth connection.
A Blue Sea '1739200' Mini OLED Tank Meter gauge, that displays remaining freshwater tank level, is also mounted in that compartment.
This is the front panel. On the upper left and upper center are two latches that allow this front panel to release and tip forward. There is a blank are where the pop-top actuator breakers would typically be, but are unneeded for the hard top. Next is the fuse block then the Victron Energy Blue Smart IP67 12-Volt 17 amp 120VAC "shore power" charger.
Also shown are the battery heat switch, two larger Bussmann circuit breakers; The Main On/Off and Fuse Block On/Off, and button breakers for the Solar controller and the DC charger.
A close up of the fuse block.
Those familiar with STC know they have historically only used Battleborn brand batteries. Below is an image with Victron batteries in the Flagship HT. Victron packs 200Ah of capacity in a footprint similar to other battery 100Ah batteries. This will allow a max capacity, in the camper, of 800Ah rather than 400Ah. More details in a coming post related to how Victron does this and the house battery options/locations available for the Flagship HT (and the Flagship LT).
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I think once you’ve owned a hard top it’s hard (no pun intended) to go back to a soft side. There’s so much ease and convenience in owning a hard sided camper. The only type of soft side I’d want to own is one with an auto lifting top like the LT. I really like the HT and I’d consider if I was in the market. In typical ST fashion it oozes quality and elegance.
The one area I think they missed out on however is storage. One of the many reasons people want a hard top/side is for extra cabinets and overhead storage. IMO the storage cabinets they added seem like an afterthought. Instead of perhaps redesigning the interior to accommodate for additional storage I think they just kept the interior design of the LT and then tried to jam in some cabinets into some blank spaces without much thought in flow and design. I don’t think they took advantage of the extra space they had. For instance, they could have lowered the window over the kitchenette and added an overhead running cubby linking the two cabinets together. A small additional there adds quite a bit of extra space. Another gripe is the lack of a full size coat or jacket closet. It would be nice to have a place where you can hang ski bibs, jackets, or waders. I like that they have both fixed storage cabinets and molle panels for modular storage but wish they integrated the cabinets better. They just kinda look “there”. Not deal breakers by any means but I certainly think they coulda done it better.
The one area I think they missed out on however is storage. One of the many reasons people want a hard top/side is for extra cabinets and overhead storage. IMO the storage cabinets they added seem like an afterthought. Instead of perhaps redesigning the interior to accommodate for additional storage I think they just kept the interior design of the LT and then tried to jam in some cabinets into some blank spaces without much thought in flow and design. I don’t think they took advantage of the extra space they had. For instance, they could have lowered the window over the kitchenette and added an overhead running cubby linking the two cabinets together. A small additional there adds quite a bit of extra space. Another gripe is the lack of a full size coat or jacket closet. It would be nice to have a place where you can hang ski bibs, jackets, or waders. I like that they have both fixed storage cabinets and molle panels for modular storage but wish they integrated the cabinets better. They just kinda look “there”. Not deal breakers by any means but I certainly think they coulda done it better.
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I'm a bit behind adding more detailed info to this thread. Long hours at my day job has been the blocker, but I'll continue adding more info come this weekend.
Meanwhile, a few real world shots at a fuel stop with the HT and my friends in their LT.
Meanwhile, a few real world shots at a fuel stop with the HT and my friends in their LT.
The soft-sided LT is a looker. Here is my big thread on that model (which I own, but started the thread when I first visited STC in Golden). I'll be poaching some of the system detail/descriptions from that thread, but updating since things have evolved).
https://expeditionportal.com/forum/...ship-lt-pop-up-slide-in-pickup-camper.239844/
Battery bank:
Standard Flagship HT and Flagship LT camper builds include one Battle Born 100ah battery. In my previous two campers, I did all or part of the house battery and solar wiring setups/installs (battery, solar panel, solar controller, battery monitor, etc.). I do like Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) batteries and have experience with three different brands, including Battle Born and all have performed well.
In the original Flagship LT pop-top builds, Battle Born 100Ah batteries were the only choice. One could optionally add up to three additional Battle Born 100Ah batteries for a total of four batteries (400Ah). Two Battle Born batteries can fit in the electronics cabinet. Previously, if a 400Ah house battery bank was optioned, the drivers side under-bench storage would house two additional Battle Born 100ah batteries with conductors passing through the basement.
Coinciding with the the introduction of the Flagship HT, STC is now using Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart batteries for battery bank options of 400Ah or more. 200Ah Victron batteries are only slightly larger than the Battle Born 100Ah. This allows for two 200Ah Victron to fit within the electronics cabinet rather than utilizing the driver's side under-bench storage location. That location is still available, however, so there is now an 800Ah battery option that consists of two 200Ah Victron batteries located in the electronics cabinet and two 200Ah batteries in the under-bench location.
Below shows a Flagship LT driver's side under-bench storage being utilized for Battle Born batteries back when a 400Ah battery bank used four Battle Born 100Ah batteries. When batteries are added to this compartment (middle image below), a carpeted cover panel, with supporting tabs, separates the batteries from the upper storage compartment. That panel becomes the floor of the now-shallower storage compartment (right image below).
This is the same driver's side compartment when third and fourth batteries are not specced. The full-depth storage space goes all the way down to the "basement".
Victron batteries can fit more cells, in a given battery case size, because most Battery Management System (BMS) functions are performed outside of the battery case using external Victron components. Most other brands of lithium batteries have an internal BMS, and often also include internal Blue Tooth connectivity/monitoring and internal heat pad. Victron batteries have a few internal sensors/components and cell monitoring/communication cables that must be connected to one of five available model external BMS. The BMS, in turn, connects and communicates with Battery Protect disconnects (one on charge side and one on load side) to disconnect current from charge sources and disconnect current to a load. Battery heating pads are also external.
Victron makes five main BMS that are compatible.
For house battery banks from 100Ah to 200Ah, STC will continue to utilize one or two Battle Born 100Ah batteries.
For house battery banks from 400Ah to 800Ah, STC will utilize two to four Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart batteries, one Victron smallBMS and two Battery Protect BP-100 (one on charge side and one on load side.
With the extra external components and wiring needed when using the Victron batteries, it makes sense for STC to continue to utilize the somewhat simpler solution of Battle Born batteries for a battery bank size of 100Ah - 200Ah. Once battery bank size grows to 400Ah, the extra components and wiring are worth it since 400Ah can fit right in the electronics cabinet or up to 800Ah if also utilizing the under-bench storage for battery storage.
I really like the concept of separating components from the cells/battery case. If a BMS or Battery Protect goes bad, you replace it without replacing the entire battery cells/case. Similarly, if cells go bad, you replace the battery cells/case but without the waste/expense of discarding the built in BMS, heat pad, bluetooth, etc. like you do with some sealed LiFePO4 batteries. Granted, there are brands with battery serviceable battery cases that you can open and replace internal BMS, sensors or cells, which is great (and I've done on some brand batteries I've owned over the years).
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Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart battery:
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Victron smallBMS:
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Two Battery Protect BP-100:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart batteries. 400Ah now fits in the electronics cabinet, leaving the driver's under-bench space available for storage or for another 400Ah of Victron batteries. External size heating pads are visible in this image.
Tipping forward the front panel in the electronics cabinet allows access to the Solar Controller, DC charger, smallBMS, Battery Protects, Busbars, shunt, etc.
All wiring is neat and tidy, even with the extra external Victron components. The main panels and components are wired with the panel on a wiring jig for consistency. Note that wiring loops accommodate the front panel leaning forward.
The two Battery Protects are mounted up high with one tasked to disconnect the charge side (cell overvoltage situation, cell temp too cold or hot for charging, etc.) and the other to disconnect the load side (cell voltage falls below set voltage, cell temp too high or too low for current draw, etc.).
The Victron shunt tracks inbound and outbound current to give a battery bank State of Charge (SOC).
The Victron smallBMS uses the information from the battery communication cables and makes decisions regarding when to trigger either one or both of the two Battery Protects.
Standard Flagship HT and Flagship LT camper builds include one Battle Born 100ah battery. In my previous two campers, I did all or part of the house battery and solar wiring setups/installs (battery, solar panel, solar controller, battery monitor, etc.). I do like Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) batteries and have experience with three different brands, including Battle Born and all have performed well.
In the original Flagship LT pop-top builds, Battle Born 100Ah batteries were the only choice. One could optionally add up to three additional Battle Born 100Ah batteries for a total of four batteries (400Ah). Two Battle Born batteries can fit in the electronics cabinet. Previously, if a 400Ah house battery bank was optioned, the drivers side under-bench storage would house two additional Battle Born 100ah batteries with conductors passing through the basement.
Coinciding with the the introduction of the Flagship HT, STC is now using Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart batteries for battery bank options of 400Ah or more. 200Ah Victron batteries are only slightly larger than the Battle Born 100Ah. This allows for two 200Ah Victron to fit within the electronics cabinet rather than utilizing the driver's side under-bench storage location. That location is still available, however, so there is now an 800Ah battery option that consists of two 200Ah Victron batteries located in the electronics cabinet and two 200Ah batteries in the under-bench location.
Below shows a Flagship LT driver's side under-bench storage being utilized for Battle Born batteries back when a 400Ah battery bank used four Battle Born 100Ah batteries. When batteries are added to this compartment (middle image below), a carpeted cover panel, with supporting tabs, separates the batteries from the upper storage compartment. That panel becomes the floor of the now-shallower storage compartment (right image below).
This is the same driver's side compartment when third and fourth batteries are not specced. The full-depth storage space goes all the way down to the "basement".
Victron batteries can fit more cells, in a given battery case size, because most Battery Management System (BMS) functions are performed outside of the battery case using external Victron components. Most other brands of lithium batteries have an internal BMS, and often also include internal Blue Tooth connectivity/monitoring and internal heat pad. Victron batteries have a few internal sensors/components and cell monitoring/communication cables that must be connected to one of five available model external BMS. The BMS, in turn, connects and communicates with Battery Protect disconnects (one on charge side and one on load side) to disconnect current from charge sources and disconnect current to a load. Battery heating pads are also external.
Victron makes five main BMS that are compatible.
- smallBMS – recommended for use in small systems.
- VE. Bus BMS / VE.Bus BMS V2 – recommended for systems with specific Victron inverter/chargers.
- Smart BMS 12/200 - recommended for use in Automotive and Marine systems having DC-loads and Alternators.
- Smart BMS CL 12/100 – recommended for use in Automotive and Marine systems having DC-loads and Alternators.
- Lynx Smart BMS - recommended for use in large systems.
For house battery banks from 100Ah to 200Ah, STC will continue to utilize one or two Battle Born 100Ah batteries.
For house battery banks from 400Ah to 800Ah, STC will utilize two to four Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart batteries, one Victron smallBMS and two Battery Protect BP-100 (one on charge side and one on load side.
With the extra external components and wiring needed when using the Victron batteries, it makes sense for STC to continue to utilize the somewhat simpler solution of Battle Born batteries for a battery bank size of 100Ah - 200Ah. Once battery bank size grows to 400Ah, the extra components and wiring are worth it since 400Ah can fit right in the electronics cabinet or up to 800Ah if also utilizing the under-bench storage for battery storage.
I really like the concept of separating components from the cells/battery case. If a BMS or Battery Protect goes bad, you replace it without replacing the entire battery cells/case. Similarly, if cells go bad, you replace the battery cells/case but without the waste/expense of discarding the built in BMS, heat pad, bluetooth, etc. like you do with some sealed LiFePO4 batteries. Granted, there are brands with battery serviceable battery cases that you can open and replace internal BMS, sensors or cells, which is great (and I've done on some brand batteries I've owned over the years).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart battery:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victron smallBMS:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two Battery Protect BP-100:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two Victron Lithium 12.8v 200Ah Smart batteries. 400Ah now fits in the electronics cabinet, leaving the driver's under-bench space available for storage or for another 400Ah of Victron batteries. External size heating pads are visible in this image.
Tipping forward the front panel in the electronics cabinet allows access to the Solar Controller, DC charger, smallBMS, Battery Protects, Busbars, shunt, etc.
All wiring is neat and tidy, even with the extra external Victron components. The main panels and components are wired with the panel on a wiring jig for consistency. Note that wiring loops accommodate the front panel leaning forward.
The two Battery Protects are mounted up high with one tasked to disconnect the charge side (cell overvoltage situation, cell temp too cold or hot for charging, etc.) and the other to disconnect the load side (cell voltage falls below set voltage, cell temp too high or too low for current draw, etc.).
The Victron shunt tracks inbound and outbound current to give a battery bank State of Charge (SOC).
The Victron smallBMS uses the information from the battery communication cables and makes decisions regarding when to trigger either one or both of the two Battery Protects.
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Thanks much for the detailed look. You also answered my questions about the height dealing with windy driving conditions.
The only dealbreaker for me is east-west sleeping. Not sure why manufacturers go that direction and after having 2 campers with north-south, not sure I could switch. And I agree that there is a real lack of storage when compared with other hard sides.
Cheers
The only dealbreaker for me is east-west sleeping. Not sure why manufacturers go that direction and after having 2 campers with north-south, not sure I could switch. And I agree that there is a real lack of storage when compared with other hard sides.
Cheers
Stay tuned in that regard... 🤫😁