Supertramp Flagship HT – Hard-sided Slide-in 6.5' Pickup Camper

[Chadx]

In the LT thread, someone asked about the new "External Solar Port" option. Pasting that response here as well. I'll try to get some more details/images of the external plug and location of the second Victron solar controller.

-----------------------------

Great new option that STC is making available in both the HT and LT is the "External Solar Port" option. The HT that I used for four days in February, didn't have the option so I still haven't seen it first hand. All I know is the "External Solar Port" option, as they call it, adds a second Victron 100/20 Solar Controller, an external connector and dedicated wiring. That system is completely separate, with no shared wiring or components, with the rooftop solar panels, wiring, and that Victron 100/20 Solar Controller. Totally redundant system and since they are not shared, no clamping of voltage or amps like when different spec panels are plugged into, and share, one solar controller. I'll be investigating what connector they use, where they place it, and where the second solar controller is installed in the electronics cabinet.

Background for those new to solar panels and controllers:
Being able to point portable panels directly at the sun increases output dramatically and will allow you to harvest power a lot closer to the rating of the panel compared to panels laying flat on a rooftop. You can park your camper in the shade, which also shades blocks roof-top solar array, but still place portable array out in the sun.

Like any solar controller, users need to be very careful not to exceed the voltage of the controller. That is considered by camper manufactures when sizing camper solar arrays and so there is no risk of the the user exceeding the controller limits. But offering a portable solar panel port, the camper and solar controller manufacturers are relying on the user to not exceed the controllers max voltage.

Limiting solar array voltage, to below the controllers max voltage, is important. Controllers don't like excessive voltage. The controller amperage is the max output amperage; not the max input.
In this case, the solar controller is a 100/20 so 100v max input and 20amp max output. For our 12v lithium batteries, we calculate with our approximate battery charge voltage which is 14.5v. 14.5v x 20amps is 290watt output from this solar controller and that 290watts match the Victron literature. Note the 20amp output is the same for 12v, 24v or 48v. We are 12v so only get 290watt max output, but the same controller will push up to 580watts to a 24v battery/system or 1,160watts to a 48v battery/system.

All solar panels have various voltage and amp ratings. The two voltage ratings are:
Voltage at Open Circuit (VOC) is the maximum voltage a solar panel can output when there is no load connected to it (no current flowing).
Voltage at Maximum Power (VMP), is the voltage at which a solar panel produces its peak or optimum power level. That will increase as temperature decreases so in extreme cold, voltage can climb quite a bit. That is why VOC is used to calculate max voltage.

For the solar array sizes we are likely to use as portable panels, it would be uncommon to exceed the max voltage of this solar controller. Any single portable panel is of no risk. If multiple panels are used, most users wire them in series since wiring in parallel uses more connectors and isn't as easy/tidy. But it would take quite a few panels wired in series to exceed 100v.

Wiring in series, you add up the panel voltage, but amps stays the same.
Wiring in parallel, you add up the panel amps, but voltage stays the same.

My imaginary portable panel is 200watts with VOC of 20v, VMP of 18v and amps of 11amps. We use VOC when calculating to ensure we stay below solar controller max voltage.
2 in series = 40v/11amps
4 in series = 80v/11amps
2 in parallel = 20v/22amps
4 in series = 20v/44amps
All arrays voltage stay well below the 100v max input voltage of a Victron 100/20. So you'd really have to start adding up panels in series to go over voltage, but something to be aware of since we don't have the advantage of the manufacturer controlling the panel size for a give solar controller. If someone goes out and lines up seven 20v VOC solar panels in series and the resulting 140v voltage fries the 100v solar controller, that is user error and no manufacturer will cover that under warranty.

As for amps and wattage, as mentioned, the max output of this controller is 20amps which is 290watts (14.5v x 20amps) for 12v nominal systems. Any array sized with higher watts than the controller can use, in perfect conditions, is is considered "over paneled". Meaning, any solar array sized over 290watts will ever only see 290watts of throughput on this particular controller. It doesn't matter if array is 400 watts or 4,000watts. There are times when overpaneling is prudent because typically you never get 100% efficiency from your solar array (when panels are hot, it's partly cloudy, sun is low in the horizon in the morning, evening or winter, etc.).

Solar panels are so economical now, might as well over panel a bit. True that in perfect conditions, you won't use all the power your array can generate, but in less than ideal conditions, a larger array will make more power than a smaller array. Overpaneling lets you harvest more power, in less than ideal conditions, than an array sized exactly the same as your solar controller.

 

[Spencer for Hire]

In the LT thread, someone asked about the new "External Solar Port" option. Pasting that response here as well. I'll try to get some more details/images of the external plug and location of the second Victron solar controller.

-----------------------------

Great new option that STC is making available in both the HT and LT is the "External Solar Port" option. The HT that I used for four days in February, didn't have the option so I still haven't seen it first hand. All I know is the "External Solar Port" option, as they call it, adds a second Victron 100/20 Solar Controller, an external connector and dedicated wiring. That system is completely separate, with no shared wiring or components, with the rooftop solar panels, wiring, and that Victron 100/20 Solar Controller. Totally redundant system and since they are not shared, no clamping of voltage or amps like when different spec panels are plugged into, and share, one solar controller. I'll be investigating what connector they use, where they place it, and where the second solar controller is installed in the electronics cabinet.

Background for those new to solar panels and controllers:
Being able to point portable panels directly at the sun increases output dramatically and will allow you to harvest power a lot closer to the rating of the panel compared to panels laying flat on a rooftop. You can park your camper in the shade, which also shades blocks roof-top solar array, but still place portable array out in the sun.

Like any solar controller, users need to be very careful not to exceed the voltage of the controller. That is considered by camper manufactures when sizing camper solar arrays and so there is no risk of the the user exceeding the controller limits. But offering a portable solar panel port, the camper and solar controller manufacturers are relying on the user to not exceed the controllers max voltage.

Limiting solar array voltage, to below the controllers max voltage, is important. Controllers don't like excessive voltage. The controller amperage is the max output amperage; not the max input.
In this case, the solar controller is a 100/20 so 100v max input and 20amp max output. For our 12v lithium batteries, we calculate with our approximate battery charge voltage which is 14.5v. 14.5v x 20amps is 290watt output from this solar controller and that 290watts match the Victron literature. Note the 20amp output is the same for 12v, 24v or 48v. We are 12v so only get 290watt max output, but the same controller will push up to 580watts to a 24v battery/system or 1,160watts to a 48v battery/system.

All solar panels have various voltage and amp ratings. The two voltage ratings are:
Voltage at Open Circuit (VOC) is the maximum voltage a solar panel can output when there is no load connected to it (no current flowing).
Voltage at Maximum Power (VMP), is the voltage at which a solar panel produces its peak or optimum power level. That will increase as temperature decreases so in extreme cold, voltage can climb quite a bit. That is why VOC is used to calculate max voltage.

For the solar array sizes we are likely to use as portable panels, it would be uncommon to exceed the max voltage of this solar controller. Any single portable panel is of no risk. If multiple panels are used, most users wire them in series since wiring in parallel uses more connectors and isn't as easy/tidy. But it would take quite a few panels wired in series to exceed 100v.

Wiring in series, you add up the panel voltage, but amps stays the same.
Wiring in parallel, you add up the panel amps, but voltage stays the same.

My imaginary portable panel is 200watts with VOC of 20v, VMP of 18v and amps of 11amps. We use VOC when calculating to ensure we stay below solar controller max voltage.
2 in series = 40v/11amps
4 in series = 80v/11amps
2 in parallel = 20v/22amps
4 in series = 20v/44amps
All arrays voltage stay well below the 100v max input voltage of a Victron 100/20. So you'd really have to start adding up panels in series to go over voltage, but something to be aware of since we don't have the advantage of the manufacturer controlling the panel size for a give solar controller. If someone goes out and lines up seven 20v VOC solar panels in series and the resulting 140v voltage fries the 100v solar controller, that is user error and no manufacturer will cover that under warranty.

As for amps and wattage, as mentioned, the max output of this controller is 20amps which is 290watts (14.5v x 20amps) for 12v nominal systems. Any array sized with higher watts than the controller can use, in perfect conditions, is is considered "over paneled". Meaning, any solar array sized over 290watts will ever only see 290watts of throughput on this particular controller. It doesn't matter if array is 400 watts or 4,000watts. There are times when overpaneling is prudent because typically you never get 100% efficiency from your solar array (when panels are hot, it's partly cloudy, sun is low in the horizon in the morning, evening or winter, etc.).

Solar panels are so economical now, might as well over panel a bit. True that in perfect conditions, you won't use all the power your array can generate, but in less than ideal conditions, a larger array will make more power than a smaller array. Overpaneling lets you harvest more power, in less than ideal conditions, than an array sized exactly the same as your solar controller.

Good reviews and discussion as always. So if you had to do it over again, would you go with your soft top, the new hard top or wait until they come out with some type of flat bed configuration. Or is there another company out there like Rossmonster that strikes your fancy?

 

[Chadx]

Good reviews and discussion as always. So if you had to do it over again, would you go with your soft top, the new hard top or wait until they come out with some type of flat bed configuration. Or is there another company out there like Rossmonster that strikes your fancy?

If our Flagship LT was totaled and we had to start a new build, it would get replaced with another Supertramp camper. Haven't found another brand I like as much. And that is a good feeling to be in my favorite brand already rather than "wishing someday". Ha. Our previous campers (FWC then OEV) were each steps up; deficiencies of the previous rigs. Since we've been in our Flagship LT, haven't really had much else catch my eye that we could realistically use where we travel. But if had to start from scratch, it would be a tough call between the HT and LT.

From the perspective of being inside the camper, I prefer the feeling when inside the HT over the LT.
Some reasons are:
- The extra sound deadening
- The insulated/dampened feel
- That all six double-pane HT windows can be open to the light/view even in cold and rain (the LTs front 180-degree window is screen-only so doesn't get opened in cold/rain)
- The extra storage cabinets (which I found super handy and used a lot even on my short 4 day trip)
- Lack of interior actuators and so a bit more open feeling and more sitting/leaning options without them

The 2/3-height rear door of the HT doesn't bother me in the least but maybe that is because we've never had a hard sided camper and full height door. My last three campers have been pop-tops and when stepping up from, or down to, the step stool or receiver steps, one is going up into, or down out of, the camper at a steep enough angle that one barely has to duck.

The deciding factor for us, though, is where are trail drive. We spend most every summer/fall weekend driving mountain roads that are tight and tree-lined. Not only do we already scrape down the trails with branches dragging down the roof, but are often on trails that are off-camber or with eroded trenches where the entire rig is leaned so far to the side that if we were in a taller hard top, it would lean into the trees or cliff/rocks to the side of the trail. Going with an HT, or any hard sided camper, would mean we would have to turn around a more often. I already do some limb trimming here and there if it doesn't change the character of the trail. When we are on dirtbikes, ATVs, narrower SUVs, etc. we like the narrower/tighter trails rather than everything being wide open or too tall, so I avoid cutting limbs if it changes the character of the trail.

The Supertramp Megatron, Storyteller GXV Next and Hilt and even the hard pop-top Rossmonster Baja are way too big for where we go, though all are beautiful and if one's only destinations were wide open spaces, they should not be ruled out. But they also come with other significant challenges (initial price point, size for day-to-day use, parking, changing huge/heavy tires/wheels and ongoing costs such as fuel efficiency, very expensive tires, etc.).

In more open environments, like all of our Utah trips (minus a few cliff overhangs or tunnels formed by huge fallen boulders) or in other open desert regions, I'd prefer the HT. We've talked about going to a hardtop and still being able to do most, but not all, trails. But for now, we'll stick with the LT as we are super happy with it. We even thought about going to a hard top camper for our main camper an then maybe a rooftop tent for my wife's 4runner for lighter, faster, tighter trips, but in reality, after so many years of being in nice pop-up campers with all the amenities, we have no interest in rooftop tents or camping in the back of an SUV. We want our cabin heater, hot water, toilet in the middle of the night, easy cooking and cleanup camper. Ha.

Another LT is what we'd choose if we had to replace our current LT today. If our use case changes slightly or we decide to do less tight, overhead trails and focus on a bit more open trails or open spaces or expand and do more winter camping, we'd go with HT over LT.

 

[jk6661]

Thanks much for the detailed look. You also answered my questions about the height dealing with windy driving conditions.

The only dealbreaker for me is east-west sleeping. Not sure why manufacturers go that direction and after having 2 campers with north-south, not sure I could switch. And I agree that there is a real lack of storage when compared with other hard sides.

Cheers

FWIW, someone at Supertramp told me they could duplicate the two black cabinets in the photos on the other side where the molle panels are (so four cabinets total) Still not a lot of storage, but it would help.

 

[Chadx]

FWIW, someone at Supertramp told me they could duplicate the two black cabinets in the photos on the other side where the molle panels are (so four cabinets total) Still not a lot of storage, but it would help.

That would be slick. Wonder if that will become an option. Time for me to do another crappy photocopy job to try to envision what that would look like.

I still need to post more interior images from my trip, too.

 

[kmacafee]

FWIW, someone at Supertramp told me they could duplicate the two black cabinets in the photos on the other side where the molle panels are (so four cabinets total) Still not a lot of storage, but it would help.

I wonder if there is under bed storage. On my Bundutec Odyssey, I have storage to the front of the camper.

 

[Chadx]

I wonder if there is under bed storage. On my Bundutec Odyssey, I have storage to the front of the camper.

Yes, the HT and LT have nice underbed storage.
In our LT, we store all our clothes in the square clothing packing cubes. Keeps things well sorted and clothing cubes, for two of us on a week long trip, take up only two of the four slots.

Images from the HT. Paper towels roll for scale only (can't close with something that tall in there). The compartments are 3 7/8" deep.

 

[EPO]

Does ST offer a way to increase water capacity beyong 24 gallons? I've not seen that option listed.

 

[Chadx]

Does ST offer a way to increase water capacity beyong 24 gallons? I've not seen that option listed.

STC does not offer any water tank options; only the stock 24 gallon freshwater tank. 24 gallons seems about right for a camper this size. Our previous OEV brand camper only had 20 gallons, so the 4 gallon (20%) bump over that, in our Flagship LT, has been nice. We did not get the Portable Toilet, which use water to flush, and instead supplied our own Separating Toilet (Trelino M, but there are many brands). That saves a lot of water. If we don't take any showers and instead wipe off each night or swing by a campground shower or public shower, 24 gallons lasts us 7+ days.

If one brought along rotopax water jugs, or similar, you could refill. Or use those for certain water needs and save water tank water for in-camper use. I image one could also add an additional water tank in the front underbench storage right above the camper's 24 gallon tank. Maybe even plumb it in so you could open a valve to refill the lower tank as it empties.
On longer trips (10 days) where we did use water to take a couple quick inside or outside showers, we only needed to refill once on such a trip. It's been easy to fill for free at a State Park, swing by a campground, etc. Have never had to pay when we asked. We just bring our 25' fill hose and filter and fill up about 2/3 of the way through the trip or at an opportune time.

Another option is to purchase one of the portable "suitcase" pre-filtration systems like the Guzzle H2O and other brands. Then you can even take water from natural water sources. Anything questionable is cared for with UV light filter, carbon filter, and micron filters before the water goes into your holding tank.

 

[Chadx]

The Flagship HT instrument panel, left to right, shows the optional inverter on/off switch, the optional inverter dual 120v outlets (and two 5v USB A outlets), a standard 12v outlet, standard USB A/USBC outlet, the Truma Combi controller and the MaxxAir remote control (one remote can individually control both Maxxair vents/fans).



The optional inverter is available in either a 1,500watt Go Power or 2,000watt Go Power. There is also an option to add an external 120v plug driven by the inverter. Another option is a "pass through" 120v plug/outlet. That allows one to pass 120v shorepower into the camper to energize an additional outlet not shown. Getting creative with adapters, the passthrough also would allow one to pass 120v inverter power to the exterior outlet, eliminating the need for the dedicated exterior inverter outlet.

In the Flagship LT, one of the three Truma Combi heat vent outlets is above the inverter on/off switch, in this case, that vent passes through the built in cabinet and open into the cabover area.

The passenger side exterior line-up is shown below.
From left to right: Truma Combi intake/vent, optional external 120v inverter outlet, optional 120v 20amp Truma Combi Plus plug, standard shore power plug to power 120v charger, water fill. The standard water fill is a simple quarter-turn cap. There is a optional locking cover.




Caps up exposing (from left to right) optional external 120v inverter outlet, optional 120v 20amp Truma Combi Plus outlet, standard shore power plug to power 120v charger, water fill.
Note the optional Truma Combi Plus outlet is a NEMA 5-20P 20amp plug. Compared to a NEMA 5-15P 15 amp plug that is more common, the NEMA 5-20P plug has a T-shaped neutral blade (the wider blade) and a standard hot blade (the narrower blade). This is so one doesn't overload a 15 amp circuit. The Truma Combi Plus has two different electric settings settings (more details on the standard and plus version of the Combi in a future post) so if the lower electric load is selected, one can safely use an adapter to change from 5-20 to 5-15 plug.
By comparison, the shore power charger plug shown is a more common NEMA 5-15P plug.




Since I'm showing exterior plugs, this is the 12v DC connector that is typically mounted to the rear of the stock pickup bed. This one looks a bit different because the bed was replaced with a Bowen try and this connector is mounted to an aftermarket step panel.




The propane cabinet with slide out tray. Two 11lb propane tanks are used rather than one larger 20lb. This makes it handy to keep one tank connected to the camper (for cabin heat and hot water) while the other tank can be pulled out and used around camp (propane fire, propane cooking on table) or taken for a re-fill while the other tank continues to provide propane. All three of my campers have had two 11lb tanks rather than one 20lb and it is my preference. Any propane provider can fill the 11lb tanks just like a 20lb, or other size, tank. The only con is if one prefers the 'propane tank exchange' type services (BlueRhino, etc.) since those exchanges only do 20lb bottles.