Wind generators......?

Ozarker

Pontoon Admiral
Have a question concerning wind generators, does anyone use them? Yachts use small ones and Ham Radio guys use them for emergency filed set ups, QRP operations. I've never seen a camper going down the road with a wind generator flying. I believe there are some small ones that look like small jet engines and are enclosed, that might work on the road for a trailer/house bank, but primarily on site. There are several portable booms and towers available and depending where you are, might not need to get too high.

Anyway, anyone use them? Think it would be worth the effort of having one and hauling it around?
 

BKCowGod

Automotive ADHD is fun!
We used to sell the Air-X and there was some discussion back then of installing one on a telescoping mast on a camper. The general consensus was that the added wind resistance of the setup would cancel out the energy production benefits, especially compared to just installing a bigger alternator and piggybacking off the engine that way.
 

cwsqbm

Explorer
Using a wind generator while moving wouldn't make sense - you already have an engine turning that already has an alternator creating electricity. If you need more, a bigger alternator is generally not too complicated to install and cheaper than a wind generator that puts out 1/10th the power.

They make sense on sailboats because they are moving at a moderate speed, don't have to worry about hills or trees blocking the wind, and don't already have an engine turning. For a parked camper, they'd only work in certain locations, and at certain times. Solar has a much higher utilization rate potential.
 

Hilldweller

SE Expedition Society
A small pop-up version would be good for boondocking and I've been thinking along those lines myself.
 

DontPanic42

Adventurer
A small pop-up version would be good for boondocking and I've been thinking along those lines myself.

I have been working on a similar setup but using a modular arrangement since it wouldn't be used on every trip. Everything will fit into two boxes. I have an AMPAIR Dolphin vertical generator and a slightly smaller one that I am evaluating. Though not as efficient as the standard wind generator it fits my requirement for being compact and easy for one person to setup. The mast will either be an aluminium flag pole in 4 ft sections or a fiberglass mast also of 4 ft sections.
The mast is mounted to the bumper using an adapter that I had fabricated. I use a small Coleman controller. To stabilize the unit and camper, I have slide out outriggers with trailer jacks to add stability. Now that I have an inside place to work in, I'll install the unit for testing and photographs.
As stated previously, a small wind generator is not as efficient as solar but I figure if I get something at night when the wind is blowing, I am ahead of the game. I have also replaced all the camper lights with LEDs to save power.
 

windsock

Adventurer
g'day all,

I hope you don't mind my input here.

If you proceed and end up with a vehicle-mounted turbine, watch out for vibrations and resonance kicking through the tower if it is attached to the stationary vehicle. It does happen, maybe not all the time. Better to aim for a remote mount set up with wires to your vehicle.

On some small turbines the noise is hell in a stationary situation. On a sailboat noise is not an issue with the sails up and wind hauling you anyway. Stationary in a marina situation I have known of folk in other boats tossing ropes into a noisey turbine to stop them.

Turbulence is going to be an issue in many 'normal' camp positions and unless you intend to camp in a wind exposed clear-wind location you will have difficulty extracting any useful energy. Turbulence is calculated from the standard deviation of the mean ten minute wind spped. The greater the variation in ten minutes the greater the calculated turbulence. In high wind situations, wind turbines exposed to consistent turbulence eventually have failures. If it is designed heavy duty it is going to be heavy to lug from camp to camp.

Most small wind turbines start producing low amounts of energy at about 3-4 metres per second wind speed. Very low amounts of energy especially if the rated capacity is low to start with. Most turbines produce their rated output at around 12-15 metres per second. Check the power curve of any turbine you are thinking about to ensure some form of match with the wind resource you are likely to expose it to. The power curve is a curve in graphic form that indicates energy output of the turbine at various wind speeds. Check out how the power curve was derived. Some manufacturers are either inadvertantly or intentionally producing power curves in a manner likely to over state the output. In real life they are found to be much lower. Some power curves are derived from mounting the turbine on a truck bed and driving around a track. Others are derived from wind tunnel testing. Only a few are derived over time from a real world monitored output situation. I understand there are discussions happening to sort out recognised standards for deriving power curves in the small wind industry but I don't know if they are formed or being adopted. Last I heard a year or so ago it was a contentious issue. The National Renewable Energy Labs (NREL) in Colorado is a source of some real world test results. Also google "Paul Gipe", he has tested small wind turbines and a well recognised author in small and large wind, and independant, his tests are pretty sound. I have seen and heard of too many people stick their finger in the air and state something about the wind resource being good without knowing about power curves and being dissapointed later on down the line when they realise they are not getting what they anticipated.

The power available (W) in the wind is a function of half the air density (kg/m^3) x area of the turbine blade swept area (m^2) x the velocity (m/s) of the wind cubed [P(W)=0.5 x air density x Swept area (m^2) x wind speed^3 (m/s)]. In mountain areas air density is a lot lower than at sea level. Small turbines have small swept areas and can therefore extract small amounts of energy by rote of their size. You can increase your chances of increased energy by choosing a larger swept area (double the swept area double the output) but this means a larger blade diameter and larger turbine to install. Velocity cubed is the real number you need to pay attention to. The cubic function means small variations in wind speed have very large impacts on energy available. Camping in a wind consistent enough to get useful energy is going to be an ackward and uncomfortable experience after a while. A breeze simply won't cut it. A remote turbine with wires running back to camp would allow a sheltered camp but an exposed turbine.

I have worked in many areas of wind energy. I have studied wind and wind turbines for a number of years and I have worked in wind farm development. I enjoy working with the wind, wind resource engineering and turbines and extracting energy from it. I would not however consider a wind turbine for my camping. A mountain cabin, yes, a mobile camp situation, no. I prefer to be in sheltered locations and to be able to live/sleep without the vibrations and reverberations of a turbine buzzing intermittantly through the duration of my stay. Wind turbines are ideal for clear exposed consistent wind over time where you have battery capacity to see you over the calm periods. If you intend to camp in such locations so be it. Ideal. If not, but for curiosity as to whether it would work, I wouldn't bother.

Solar would be my first choice for consistent and predictable energy production from a mobile camp situation. Clean, reliable, consistent, unobtrusive, and quiet.

Regardless of what I say above, if curiousity drives you and you go for it I applaud you for satisfying your curiosity, and potentially, your energy requirements :).

Cheers,

Phil
 
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DontPanic42

Adventurer
Windsock,
As far as I am concerned your input is much appreciated. It is good to hear from someone who has hands on experience in the industry.
My system has been cobbled together from parts I have scrounged with only the actual turbine , an inexpensive controller, and some fittings as purchased items. I went with a vertical turbine as it has a smaller foot print and would be easier for me to handle. I plan to only use the unit in conjunction with my 100 watt solar panel when I am camped for an extended period of time. Its purpose would be to augment the solar panel at night when conditions allow.
Vibration and noise from the unit are things that I shall evaluate. Hopefully, both can be kept at a minimum.
As I don't expect to have fantastic output, I would have to agree with your comment that the project is more curiosity driven. The challenge of getting it to work is also a factor. If it produces some energy it will be more than I would have if I didn't try at all.
As far as locating my camper in a sheltered area away from the wind, here is an example of where I have been setting up. It is where I have worked at a hunting camp a few miles from the border of old Mexico and the Rio Grande River. We would be there for nearly a fortnight. The nearest town is about 65 miles away so we have to haul in everything including water. The mountains in the background are about 10 miles away in Mexico. As you can see not many places to get out of the wind.



My solar panel was mounted on the truck cab roof about 4 months after this picture was taken.
I hope to finally begin testing in a few weeks.
 

bob91yj

Resident **************
Wind is rarely an issue in SoCal deserts. I've seen a full timer or two using wind generators. The whole idea generated some conversation around the fire one night.

Bear with me on this one, and tell me why this would not work...

I pass a house on my daily commute that has an old ceiling fan mounted on a post windmill style. That thing is missing blades, old as dirt, etc, never the less, it spins like crazy almost all the time. Here's my red neck engineering idea...fit a ceiling fan blade assembly to an automotive alternator, add a wind vane, voltage regulator and tada...wind generated power while base camping.

It may not be much/reliable but it would be almost free. Keep in mind when we are base camping in the desert we usually have trailers/toyboxes, room to carry the contraption would not be an issue.
 

dzzz

...........Think it would be worth the effort of having one and hauling it around?

Only for fun.
For actual low effort energy harvesting you want solar. Most small wind projects fail. And I do mean most. The record is quite horrible. You could probably have a lower cost per kwh by buying a monkey to generate power by turning a generator attached to a stationary bike.
That would be fun too. Plus you would have a monkey instead of a cheap turbine you wish you never purchased.
 

Lynn

Expedition Leader
I don't know much on the subject of wind generators, but for those who want to play with it in an inexpensive manner, you might take a look at the Chispito plans.

Undoubtedly not the most efficient wind generator, but cutting up a chunk of PVC pipe to make blades, and scavenging a tread mill motor for the generator, could certainly be cheap enough for the hobbyist.

I've also seen a lot of hobbyist projects on the Instructables web site, but I highly question most of them. For instance, there is one who claims you can use an old cordless drill motor for the generator. Don't know how sound the proposal is, but in his particular case it appears he has a rollerblade bearing isolating the blades from the motor. Sure spins nice in his video, but I can't figure out how it could be spinning the 'generator' with that bearing in the mix.
 
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teotwaki

Excelsior!
just posting this EBay one up but really don't know enough to comment on it
http://cgi.ebay.com/400W-12V-WIND-T...560?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4157637ed0

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmP83zDlRlY"]YouTube - Gudcraft Wind Generator.flv[/ame]​

200W12V-7.jpg
 

twblanset

Observer
I often wondered whether you could attach an engine fan to the pulley of an alternator and then make a small rack that would hold it off the ground. Run some jumper wires to the battery and when the wind blew... This way you'd be carrying an extra engine cooling fan and alternator as well as getting some power when the wind is blowing. You'd have to turn it to match the wind and it probably wouldn't be as efficient as a dedicated set-up, but it would be spare parts as well.
 

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