Optima Battery Problems

HenryJ

Expedition Leader
The Moral of The story is.... Optimas are garbage
That is pretty harsh. I may agree, but it is my hope that the information can be taken and solutions can be gained from the experiences.
In a perfect world Optima would look and see what can be done to improve their product and repair the deficiencies. At the very least the consumers will be more aware and put their $$ toward a product that will work better for them.

The one thing you can count on is change. Lets hope it can be for the better.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
It would be nice if an independent lab would take 1,000 Optimas and figure out the quality and deficiencies for that sample. That could be extrapolated against an estimate of the total number of batteries produced.

I am running as many tests as I can but most folks just take the darned things back and try to warranty them
 

RusherRacing

Adventurer
I run a optima yellow top in my vette. It always starts, never have put a charger on it in the 2.5years I have had it, sits in an un heated shop most of the winter connected to the car.
I won it in a race that Optima sponsors is the only reason why I have it. Otherwise I buy Interstate Blem battery's from behind the counter at the local parts store.

But battery's are a wear item, they go bad and when they do just replace them.
 

OptimaJim

Observer
zoblo, the biggest concern I frequently see cited with the use of solar chargers is proper voltage regulation. Some less expensive units will not regulate their charge and could overcharge any battery.
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Jim, as the guy who has personally made those “thousands of posts,” I can tell you that the majority of them explain basic battery diagnostic and maintenance information, applicable to any lead-acid battery. There are also times when folks do post incorrect information about our products and when that happens, I'm also happy to post correct information, especially when there are safety concerns involved (our batteries should not be mounted upside down). I only have a handful of posts on the vast majority of sites where I participate, because I only participate in threads started by others that mention our batteries. Optima doesn't pay me to ask questions about my own vehicles, socialize in forums or post smiley faces clinking beer mugs, so my post count on most forums tends to be low as a result.
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I do handle a huge volume of conversations and if I missed anyone's question to me in this thread, I apologize and would be happy to do my best to answer it. I do also regularly assist our customers in getting warranty service for their batteries, although most find they do not need warranty service, once they properly-recharge their battery. The reason I spend the extra time to explain the difference between “gel” charger settings and non-gel settings, is because this is a conversation on a public forum and that information may be applicable to someone else, who is also reading this thread. I do appreciate you posting our warranty terms and would encourage you to continue posting the terms of other manufacturers as a comparison.
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As you correctly mentioned to zoblo, one of the things that can hurt a lot of batteries is not keeping them topped off and having very small, long-term drains that run them down. From the data log you posted, it would indicate your YellowTop was partially-discharged in the morning (12.58 volts), discharged as low as 12.12 volts during the day and parked in the evening in a partially-discharged state at 12.65 volts and presumably left that way overnight, as indicated by your morning voltage reading. From what you've posted, I think your battery is performing as best it can in your application. If you are convinced the quality of our battery is the reason it appears to be constantly undercharged, you always have the option of swapping it with your other battery, to see if our's is able to regularly start your vehicle and how the other one performs in the auxiliary role.
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Our engineer wanted me to apologize for him, for previously missing the RPMs associated with your various alternator output readings. He indicated that assuming the readings were at a moderate temperature, the voltage output is lower than what he has personally seen in his vehicles and what he has been told is typical output voltage from his time in dealing with Optima customer service.
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As I have mentioned before, Optima does not release production numbers, nor does any other manufacturer. If you can convince other manufacturers to give you their numbers, please post them here, as I have been told when others do, we will follow suit. As for the Race-Dezert board, I was really glad Gary Powell was willing to share his experiences with our batteries and not because none of his customers have ever experienced a single failure of our batteries in any of the vehicles he wired. I was amazed he posted the information he did, because he did so at the risk of giving up a competitive advantage he holds over several of his fellow racers.
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TheJosh, the current free replacement warranty on our YellowTops is not 12 months, but three years. As Bill indicated, if you purchased your YellowTop prior to February 1, 2009, it came with a two-year warranty, with 12 months of pro-rated coverage. If there was always a direct correlation between quality (or the perception of) and the length of warranty offered, the vehicles with the best quality ratings would always have the best warranties. However, some companies acknowledge that many consumers would not have the confidence to buy their products, without the backing of a significant warranty. As a result, many generic store battery brands will have longer warranty terms than premium brands that cost significantly more.
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HenryJ, I'm still interested in the contact information of the person you spoke to, if you are interested in sharing it. If you have Optima batteries that are still performing after more than 10 years, I would encourage you to submit your story to us for our Wall of Power.
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Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
www.facebook.com/optimabatteries
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
Jim, as the guy who has personally made those “thousands of posts,” I can tell you that the majority of them explain basic battery diagnostic and maintenance information, applicable to any lead-acid battery. There are also times when folks do post incorrect information about our products and when that happens, I'm also happy to post correct information, especially when there are safety concerns involved (our batteries should not be mounted upside down). I only have a handful of posts on the vast majority of sites where I participate, because I only participate in threads started by others that mention our batteries.

I realize that your sole purpose is to jump into any thread that seems to malign the good name of Optima. I get it.


Optima doesn't pay me to ask questions about my own vehicles, socialize in forums or post smiley faces clinking beer mugs, so my post count on most forums tends to be low as a result.

I have no clue why you included that mini-rant. My point is that your drive-by postings focus on diffusing negative press and then you move on. Your most frequent answer is that the Optima factory in Mexico is state-of-the-art which you want us to believe automatically equates to a good product. Toyota builds very state-of-the-art factories but they hit a low point in 2010 with 17 defects per 100 vehicles as well as numerous safety recalls. As HenryJ has noted, good on ya for trying despite being just a sales guy.

I do appreciate you posting our warranty terms and would encourage you to continue posting the terms of other manufacturers as a comparison.

My Sears DieHard Platinum warranty:
Months in Use Free Replacement: 48
Months in Use Pro Rated Replacement: 100

I'll predict that you'll quibble about how I should have chosen a like-for like battery and then me posting that battery's warranty but why don't you do the research instead? Maybe you can tell us how 24 months is better than 48?

As you correctly mentioned to zoblo, one of the things that can hurt a lot of batteries is not keeping them topped off and having very small, long-term drains that run them down. From the data log you posted, it would indicate your YellowTop was partially-discharged in the morning (12.58 volts), discharged as low as 12.12 volts during the day and parked in the evening in a partially-discharged state at 12.65 volts and presumably left that way overnight, as indicated by your morning voltage reading. From what you've posted, I think your battery is performing as best it can in your application. If you are convinced the quality of our battery is the reason it appears to be constantly undercharged, you always have the option of swapping it with your other battery, to see if our's is able to regularly start your vehicle and how the other one performs in the auxiliary role.

As stated more than once, when I park at home the battery has been on charge as I drive so it gets what it gets. As I've stated more than once, swapping the batteries is silly because one is supposedly a deep-cycle and one is not. Second, they will not physically swap because the Optima has a brand specific battery tray. And last, I'm not gonna' rewire my truck for such an idea unless you are willing to pay for it. Last of all, I recognize your game with this repeated quest to make such a statement. You are still trying to swirl two issues to your advantage but I ain't playing your game. The Sears battery exhibits better QUALITY while performing its intended job. It readily recovers its charge while on the OEM charging system and does NOT require that I baby it with repeated sessions with an external AC-powered AGM-specific charge routine. The Optima is NOT fulfilling its intended duty of deep-cycle performance while on the same OEM charging system but it does require babying. So the DieHard performs its role well and the Optima does not. I know you get it but I'm repeating the facts to make sure you don't confuse anybody else with such battery swapping nonsense.

Our engineer wanted me to apologize for him, for previously missing the RPMs associated with your various alternator output readings. He indicated that assuming the readings were at a moderate temperature, the voltage output is lower than what he has personally seen in his vehicles and what he has been told is typical output voltage from his time in dealing with Optima customer service.

Hmm. What he has "personally" seen in "his" vehicles? What happened to claiming that OEM charging systems were just fine for Optima batteries??? All of a sudden there seems to be some backpedaling as you've maintained that Optima batteries should work fine in any vehicle.

As I have mentioned before, Optima does not release production numbers, nor does any other manufacturer. If you can convince other manufacturers to give you their numbers, please post them here, as I have been told when others do, we will follow suit. As for the Race-Dezert board, I was really glad Gary Powell was willing to share his experiences with our batteries and not because none of his customers have ever experienced a single failure of our batteries in any of the vehicles he wired. I was amazed he posted the information he did, because he did so at the risk of giving up a competitive advantage he holds over several of his fellow racers.


Gary risked nothing of the sort. What was more interesting was what Jerry at Camburg said: "Since we have now been using the Odyssey batteries they are outlasting the Optimas 1 race to 3 races so far with ZERO issues. I will let you know IF/when we have an issue with an Odyssey. They also seem to have much more power for the same size battery, we notice less voltage drop in starting and they seem to hold the voltage when the engine is not running. They are little things that can be huge in a race car/truck. So far we are really happy!"

Or what ProFormance said about Powell's ho-hum "revelations": "That's a great explanation of why an Optima could be failing when used in a highly modified vehicle, but how do you explain all the owners of bone stock trucks and cars that encounter this problem? The average life of two red tops on a new Dodge diesel seems to be a year and a half when used normally"

As for production numbers, the old "Show me your cards first" is a cop out. Be a trendsetter and be the first to back up your claims with real numbers.
 

98blackss

New member
Optima Jim

Interesting reading all 12 pages..... So here is my dirty laundry. I have been a Optima customer since 1998. I have "given" away more optima batteries in cars I have sold than I care to think about. Those are probably still going....

Today I had to replace an Optima Redtop 75-25 that had only 10K miles on it and was 5 years old. In my opinion, I shouldnt have had to spend the $184 again. I am not happy. However, some of the blame may lie with my self. I have been researching these batteries and I too have seen the mounting agrument against the optima batteries in the quest to determine why mine failed. It didnt really fail completely. It still had 12.47 volts after sitting over night and who knows what amperage was left in it. The reason for replacing it was it started hissing and venting while my trickle charger (a 30yr old sears) was on it. I do not know how long it was venting but it was on the charger for about 6 hours yesterday. I discovered the situation when I came back to check on it. I disconnected the charger immediately. The battery was not hot or even warm anywhere (top, or either of the 4 sides and in between), it was about 50 degrees in the garage. I was able to come back about 5 hours later and took the battery out of my camaro and hooked the charger back up to see what this thing was doing. I could hear the battery "gurgling" then slowly it started venting again. I checked the volts with the charger connected and at the top posts (charger was connected to side posts) the reading was 15.55V. The charger read 3 amps. Mind you this charger has charged the other 75-25 in my K1500 with no problems.

So what I think happened was the charger over charged the battery. Why I do not know. The battery was in my 2002 camaro. It hasnt been driven since September. I do peridoically start the car and bring it up to operating temperature and keep the RPM's between 2-3K for about 10 minutes once its warmed up. The reason for putting the charger on the battery was it seemed weak when I went to start it. Not that it struggled or anything but usually the car ROARS to life. It had been really cold here and yesterday it was in the 50's so I though it would be a good day to put the charger on it.

Now that you know the "rest of the story" I would like to use a battery tender/charger on this car. Someting I can hook up and forget about it. It would be nice that it could also charge and recover an AGM battery as well. So Optima Jim, you seem to be the expert, what charger would you use? Does a CTEK 3300 or 7002, or Deltran Tender Jr. ring a bell?

I am a believer in the AGM batteries versus the liquid type but in the last 14 years I do believe the optimas have been neutered by corporate accountants. My Junkuard $10 special NAPA Gold has been going for the last three years and taken severe abuse starting my 2005 impala sitting outside even on the coldest of mornings without so much as a hesitation.

I will rot in hell before I spend one red cent on anything that says "Die hard" on it.......

Thanks,
TJ
 

HenryJ

Expedition Leader
...I'm still interested in the contact information of the person you spoke to, if you are interested in sharing it. If you have Optima batteries that are still performing after more than 10 years, I would encourage you to submit your story to us for our Wall of Power.
I believe Scott Lentz (sp?) was my local rep. He was brought to my shop by the NAPA sales rep, along with the Raybestos sales rep. He has since moved on. The Tech that called me from your company (Eric?) , I do not recall his name and is inconsequential as he dismissed the re-badged battery as a local dealer issue, having never looked into the reason for the battery failures. Keep in mind that I am not great with names , this was half a dozen years ago. The salesmen come through pretty frequently and change almost as often. I can give you the name and number of the local NAPA salesman that brought the reps. and took care of returning and presenting the "New" battery. He does still work for NAPA.

My dozen plus year old batteries were made before JCI bought Optima so their "Power" and story was purchased not made.
Still have another JCI RedTop sitting in the core pile. Same as the others. Will not charge above 12.3 volts. Made 2006, IIRC.

Around here the problems are very apparent. We used to have Optima batteries in the automation and have since changed everything to a different brand AGM. Two dealers here will no longer sell Optima. I can give you the phone number for Blankenship's Auto Parts if you want an earful from a former dealer. NAPA is the only dealer left here that I know and they stock one YellowTop only. Going from a ten year warranty to a two year, speaks volumes.

I have no idea what the shell game was, if you were right about "when" the Mexico plant began producing. It took them several weeks to present me with the "brand new JCI YellowTop from the Mexican plant". They did point out the label and said they were anxious to hear about my testing. I gave it a shot. I have not seen them again since relaying my experiences.
 
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teotwaki

Excelsior!
SNIP

Now that you know the "rest of the story" I would like to use a battery tender/charger on this car. Someting I can hook up and forget about it. It would be nice that it could also charge and recover an AGM battery as well. So Optima Jim, you seem to be the expert, what charger would you use? Does a CTEK 3300 or 7002, or Deltran Tender Jr. ring a bell?

I use a Guest Pro battery maintainer in my trailer. I think it is what Adventure Trailers is also using.... http://www.adventuretrailers.com/12voltother.html
 

78Bronco

Explorer
I bought a "Energizer" brand battery 7 years ago from Walmart and while it has seen much work it still works as new. Half the price of a Optima.
 

teotwaki

Excelsior!
SNIP--- The reason for replacing it was it started hissing and venting while my trickle charger (a 30yr old sears) was on it. I do not know how long it was venting but it was on the charger for about 6 hours yesterday. I discovered the situation when I came back to check on it. I disconnected the charger immediately. The battery was not hot or even warm anywhere (top, or either of the 4 sides and in between), it was about 50 degrees in the garage. I was able to come back about 5 hours later and took the battery out of my camaro and hooked the charger back up to see what this thing was doing. I could hear the battery "gurgling" then slowly it started venting again. I checked the volts with the charger connected and at the top posts (charger was connected to side posts) the reading was 15.55V. The charger read 3 amps. Mind you this charger has charged the other 75-25 in my K1500 with no problems.


At the Optima web site it specs 15.6 volts as the max and keeping the amps below 10.
http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/charging.php

I'd have some doubts because of the age of the charger but from your readings it seems to be functioning okay.
 

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