F450 vs F550 for Poor Man's Earthroamer

[brp]

I am pretty seriously considering building what I think of as a poor man's Earthroamer. To do this I want to combine a 1999-2003, 7.3, 4x4 either F450 or 550 with a 21' Toyota Sunrader camper shell. The camper itself is more like 17 feet, the 21' refers to the total length including truck, I would be just be pulling the camper body off and plopping it down on the Ford.

I am wondering if anyone can argue for the 450 or 550 based on concerns specific to overlanding?

I hear people generally encourage higher GVWR's, and the Earthroamers are on 550's. In the configuration I am looking at the 450 has a payload of about 8,000#'s and the 550 about 10,000#'s. My question hear is how could the 450 not be enough? The camper shell, furnished weighs 2,000# max, leaving me an enormous 6,000# for the rest. However, Earthroamer has chosen the 550. Any thoughts there?

My next question is regarding wheels, axles and gearing? I want to go super singles and end up with around a 39" tire. I have looked at the Conti MPT 81 as an option. It seems that gears are much cheaper for the Dana 80 (450) than the Dana 135 (550), they have the same Dana 60 up front. Are 450 parts going to be generally more available, etc? Again, any advice would be great.

I realize my questions are a little open ended. Please feel free to throw out any thoughts you have. I've got a lead on a great 450 and I want to get crackin' on this if that is the right direction to take. Thanks.

 

[toymaster]

A few things I can throw on the fire.
- first is that some/most 2003's are 6.0s
- higher gvwr is great if you need it but a waste if you do not
- check the ratings of the 39" MPT. Why buy a 550 and derate it with lesser tires? It takes the 42" to keep the 13,500 rating of a Dana 135. I bought 42" MPTs with Rickson wheels. 5 tires, rims, mounting, balancing, and shipping was close to $6K FYI.



- my 550 came with 4.88 gears. Do the math and the 42" tires keep a gear ratio still lower than my F350.
I will add that my F550 gets 10mpg empty and only 5 mpg when hauling ~30K lbs. with factory size tires. My advice is to not change the gears till you have driven it in its final configuration.
- The difference between the 450 and 550 is the rear end and rear spring pack. The front ends are the same from 350 to 550. They did not go to the super 60 till the 10 lug wheels and that was post 6.0

 

[brp]

Thanks for the great response toymaster. I guess the thing to do is make some very detailed weight calculations and see where it boils down.

Do you think your relatively poor mpg numbers would be improved by getting a 450 with the same gears or by re-gearing the 550?

I would never be pulling 30k, but I would have pretty bad aerodynamics. I understand you might need those lower gears for pulling 30k.

I do know that about 75% of 2003s have the 6.0, has your 6.0 been reliable?

Thanks again, very helpful.

 

[Buliwyf]

Those super expensive expo rigs are setup to carry some serious weight. Many Rv'ers can carry thousands of pounds of useless stuff and not know it. I've seen 20' travel trailers weigh in over 11,000 pounds! Some people bring 1000 coffee mugs, 2 useless generators, and 100 pink flamingo lawn decorations camping. Chumps like that would overload an f350 DRW quickly.
-
F450 will have 4.56 gears most likely IIRC. F550 will have 4.88. I'd choose the F450 if I were you and could afford it. But I'd get an older 7.3L model. I wouldn't regear it either. Don't fear the gear.
-
If you're smart about weight. You could equip an F350 DRW 4x4 to meet your needs.

 

[Xfactor]

Great thread. tough to find info on these setups due to their scarcity.

i am interested in the life that you are getting out of the continental tires with combined highway, and off highway use

cheers!

 

[toymaster]

Thanks for the great response toymaster. I guess the thing to do is make some very detailed weight calculations and see where it boils down.

Do you think your relatively poor mpg numbers would be improved by getting a 450 with the same gears or by re-gearing the 550?

I would never be pulling 30k, but I would have pretty bad aerodynamics. I understand you might need those lower gears for pulling 30k.

I do know that about 75% of 2003s have the 6.0, has your 6.0 been reliable?

Thanks again, very helpful.

Gearing is the factor in mpg. My F550 is a 4x4 regular cab and the shortest wheelbase with a 9' plain jane flat bed on it. My F350 is a cc lwb 4x4 with a 4" lift, heavy front bumper and still gets 15-17 mpg. The motor, transmission & transfer case are the exact same from a F250 to the F550 the differences start at the rear drive shaft.

My 6.0 has been reliable however, I only have 37K on it. The only problem has been dropping the #8 injector when it was brand new. If I could go back in time I would have insisted on a 7.3 but in 2003 the 6.0 was the latest and greatest. During the first test drive I was extremely impressed; the stock 6.0 felt as powerful as my modified 7.3. Still does but not sure how much of that is gearing, the F350 has 3.5x gears.

 

[evmark3]

Other things you may want to consider when looking at a 450 or 550:

-Insurance:some insurance won't touch commercial trucks for private use. Check around.
-Repairability: If you break down in the boonies. Can you get a tow, is it going to have to be a big commercial tow truck that will cost extra? If you need repairs in a small town are they going to have a diesel shop or is the local Napa going to have the parts? Are you comfortable doing maintenance/repair?
- Government: does your homebase have higher taxes/registration fees for the extra lbs, different inspections, licencing requirements, parking restrictions?

 

[brp]

I have been doing some calculations:
-Fully loaded wet 21' Sunrader at 3500lbs
-4 people at 750lbs
-Extra weight of super singles at 400lbs
-Winch with synthetic line and mount at 300lbs
-Aluminum flatbed at 500lbs

5450# lbs is still over 2500# pounds less then the max of 8000# for the 450. I am probably coming in light on the flatbed and other items/hardware related to the mounting of the camper.

Please let me know if you think my numbers are off base. My weight for the camper should be pretty accurate. The other items I don't know as well.

Thanks.

 

[brp]

Thanks for all the advice, just checked out a 450 today, very god condition, low mileage, $$$. Anyway the thing was a beast, seemed like it could carry blocks of granite. Looking at a 550 tomorrow, they seem to be generally cheaper than the 450s.

 

[Grasslakeron]

How about an m35a3 or a m923? I have seen mileage figures on the earth roamers and the a3 is close and will give you better off road capabilities.

Ron

 

[Erik N]

A friend of mine has a 21' sunraider for sale. He's a member here, I will send him this link.

 

[brp]

I am going to stay away from the military stuff. I was set on a u1300l Unimog, but with a family I just need the comfort, speed, and reliability of a civilian truck. If I was solo it would be a different deal. The price on the military surplus stuff sure is attractive though.

 

[haven]

I'd be conservative on the GVWR for a vehicle that will be driven over uneven terrain. Tilting the truck by only a few degrees transfers enough weight to overload springs and tires on the downhill side.

Late model F450 and F550 use the Dana Super 60 front axle. I think Ford switched to the Super 60 in 2005.

 

[magentawave]

I will soon have a 21' Toyota Sunrader for sale that will probably fit what you need. I've been using it as a donor vehicle for an 18'er that I'm rebuilding but the basic stuff you'll need (Sunrader shell, Toyota chassis w/ wheels to tow it away, etc., etc.) are all there and intact which means you won't be wasting your money buying a lot of stuff you won't need for your project. Please PM me if interested.

Steve

I am pretty seriously considering building what I think of as a poor man's Earthroamer. To do this I want to combine a 1999-2003, 7.3, 4x4 either F450 or 550 with a 21' Toyota Sunrader camper shell. The camper itself is more like 17 feet, the 21' refers to the total length including truck, I would be just be pulling the camper body off and plopping it down on the Ford.

I am wondering if anyone can argue for the 450 or 550 based on concerns specific to overlanding?

I hear people generally encourage higher GVWR's, and the Earthroamers are on 550's. In the configuration I am looking at the 450 has a payload of about 8,000#'s and the 550 about 10,000#'s. My question hear is how could the 450 not be enough? The camper shell, furnished weighs 2,000# max, leaving me an enormous 6,000# for the rest. However, Earthroamer has chosen the 550. Any thoughts there?

My next question is regarding wheels, axles and gearing? I want to go super singles and end up with around a 39" tire. I have looked at the Conti MPT 81 as an option. It seems that gears are much cheaper for the Dana 80 (450) than the Dana 135 (550), they have the same Dana 60 up front. Are 450 parts going to be generally more available, etc? Again, any advice would be great.

I realize my questions are a little open ended. Please feel free to throw out any thoughts you have. I've got a lead on a great 450 and I want to get crackin' on this if that is the right direction to take. Thanks.

 

[cop car]

just buy a commercial box truck, remove box truck, swap in whatever front end you want. probaly be way cheaper.