How much off-road capability is enough?

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
For the sake of discussion, I am going to be deliberately obtuse, and ask a question.

Why doesn't anyone (other than the guys who work for the phone company) have a winch on a 2WD vehicle?

Actually, back in the 70's I saw a Dodge 4x2 van in Ecuador with a winch on the front. And years ago, MacPherson Chevrolet had a lifted 4x2 Chevrolet van with a limited slip. It was a slightly de-rated 3/4 model.


The biggest issues with a winch are weight and lack of a place to winch from.
 

RoosterBooster

Observer
... The biggest issues with a winch are weight and lack of a place to winch from.

x2

besides if you have a Truck (and a couple recovery straps) you already have a very powerful winch (without extra weight).
on a DRW you simply wrap the strap between the tires (on a SRW you use the exposed drum)

i used that old military trick not too long ago when our driveway (abandoned RR grade) was damaged from heavy rain;
while dragging the grading blade my bro slipped our Pete in the ditch when a softened part of the grade collapsed under the weight .
frontend up to the axle in mud, truck on a bad angle, no diff lock, no winch, nothing to winch from.
so after some headscratching we did the "strap-wrap" trick on the tires helplessly spinning in the air (and a 4x4 parked sideways on the other side of the elevated grade as a strap point)

with a very careful gas pedal foot (a 14 liter Cummins with 1600 lbs of torque is a grossly powerfull winch :Wow1:)
and dragging the 4x4 up and halfway across the railroad grade we got the Pete out of the ditch :smiley_drive:

however, prying the tight strap out of between the dually rims was a pain :eek:
 
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Iain_U1250

Explorer
I bought a Unimog so I get to places that normally only the little cars like Land Rovers and Land cruiser get to - but I can camp with a fair amount of luxury. :)
 

Buliwyf

Viking with a Hammer
what IF there is a sidehill and you tip your high roller on its side trying to get to that campside :ylsmoke:

there is always a "what IF" :)

not trying to argue ... after all everybody is entitled to his opinion ;)

Not really a practical problem, is that? Even a heavy pickup truck with 4-6" of lift needs to be tilted over a whole lot more than any off camber sidehill turn I've seen. I mean we're talking way more than 45 degrees. I don't know too many expo drivers that don't chicken out beyond a safe 35 degrees. Your not going to find too many trails with sideways slopes that steep. Maybe what? One or two in the entire US? Only 4x4's I've seen rollover were Jeep Wranglers offroad playing and trying to beat the hardest line they could find. Not many campsites require off roading that extreme. LOLz.


I also prefer a hilift jack and a shovel to winching. Usually I only need a little help to get going again. And just flopping the truck over a foot or two deos the trick. But I'm usually 4x4, and locked in the rear. While my work truck is a pathetic 2wd and is usually only 2" deep when it gets stuck. Both need not require winches as long as you have the rest of the available self recovery gear. IE highlift, shovel, 3/8" chain, 4x4 blocks of word or ramps, etc etc.

All too often there is nothing within 100' to connect a winch line onto. And burying a spare tire takes forever. It really depends on how often you get stuck, and where you get stuck at, that determins whether or not you need a winch.
 
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sniderexciderr

Observer
i would have to say that if a person was considering minimal upgrades that would be the most useful. i would go with a small lift just enough to get tires maybe a size or two taller for clearance under armor and maybe some bumpers that will increase your approach/egress angle. traction, clearance and driving ability is really all there is to it. i usually end up stuck by the bumpers or not able to get any traction. winches and lockers are things that are like a concealed weapon, a lifesaver if you find yourself in a bind. but i have been fine with a good strap and a buddy to give me a tug so far.
 

Karma

Adventurer
An Expedition Jeep Wrangler???

HI All,
What a great thread! I feel completely out of place here in the face of the huge amount of accumulated experience. But I wanted to get my story into the mix.

In the year 2000 I bought a red 1989 258 Cu In straight 6, red soft top Jeep YJ Wrangler with a manual 5 speed - cheap. It did not run but the significant vehicle elements were OK. With a lot of work and not much money I got it road capable again. I basically fixed all the little things to bring it back to stock capability. It had been badly neglected. I had no thoughts beyond tripping down rough roads in pretty places and use 4WD only when necessary. My Jeep was completely stock except for a Warn 8274 winch which I inherited. Then I made a pivotal decision to join the local Jeep club. BTW, at the time I was 59 years old, too old for major mechanics work-Right? Not quite as I found out later.

The club turned out to be a major eye opener. Here was a group of people for which their Jeep was a hobby and tough trails the goal. My Jeep was always bringing up the rear, often needing a winch tug, and there were many trails where I was not allowed to participate. I grew frustrated and more ambitious. And I was learning about vehicle modifications. I then faced the question of what did I actually want. I decided that rock crawling was not my goal. But I wanted my Jeep to not limit my destinations. A compromise was necessary. One can make many modifications that are neutral of the goal. Moderate lifts, front and rear ARB's, lots of skid plates, body protection where necessary, good tires, low gearing in the transfer case. I fuel injected the engine (a major improvement), improved the cooling system, installed a hydraulic assist brake system. I was getting in pretty deep and my goal was not yet definitely defined but coming into focus.

I decided I wanted a Jeep that was based on an expedition model. This is an ambitious goal for a Jeep Wrangler. It is a very small vehicle. So I set a goal. I wanted a technical capability that would not limit my destinations, be capable of supporting a week long venture without any support except for gas, be reasonably comfortable, be self contained, be reliable, be organized, and be a beast on very rough trails. Everything hinged on creating storage space. This was not easy. Not very many Wranglers are used or designed for extended trips because it is so small. Note that I travel alone; not married and no kids. But I really liked its small size. It's a wonder on trails. The challenge became whether I could accomplish my goals with a Wrangler. I note on this thread no one is using a Jeep Wrangler. Your needs are different. Your vehicle choices will be different.

I don't want to bore with all the bloody details. Suffice it to say that I accomplished my goals. True, I don't have an out of the weather situation that you would get with a camper or van. I admire those set ups. I must camp. Not ideal in my view but definitely enjoyable. I can carry two each gas and water Gerry cans. My equipment is mostly stored on a top rack in four Pelican cases with home made custom clamps where I also carry a Pull Pal, a collapsible ladder for roof access, a roll-up camp table and four Gerry cans. All items that can be made inoperable by water, such as clothes, sleeping bags, self-inflating mattress, tent, etc., are stored inside the Jeep. Generally, I use simple camping gear that is easy to set up and take down. For example, my tent is a Kamp-rite Collapsible Combo tent cot. But, don't misunderstand, I like my comforts. Table and chairs are all present as well as a capable cooking ability. My ARB Freezer/Fridge gives me food options. The Pelican cases are amazing. I have never seen either a drop of water nor a grain of sand inside them. And I have been in some nasty weather. My Serius Sat radio is the cherry on top of the pie.

So, is this an expedition vehicle? I don't know. Compared to what you folks are using it is not. However, I have no trouble taking trips of indefinite lengths, to inaccessible places, in reasonable comfort and efficiency. I like it a lot. I have had a lot of comments from other Wrangler owners indicating they did not think it could be done. But, I'm proof-it can be done - in some sort of style.

Sparky
 
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Lostmanifesto

Traveler
It really depends on what you're after. Purpose built for one activity or many. I do not believe any one vehicle is perfect for everyone because we all have different needs. I tend to favor the "do it all" type of vehicles. I cannot afford a prerunner, overlander, 4x4 crawler and a separate street vehicle. So I built a vehicle that can do it all and is still very comfortable to drive daily. In a perfect world I would have one purpose built for each.
 
Everywhere I go can be reached in 2wd, normaly, to me at least 4wd is like a handgun, you don't need it unless you need it, BADLY
 

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