LIFESAVER: What do you think about the Lifesaver jerry cans for filtering water?

[magentawave]

I'm going to be traveling extensively through Mexico and Central America and was thinking of installing a small reverse osmosis system in my rig but then I found out about the Lifesaver jerry cans http://www.amazon.com/Lifesaver-JerryCan-Liter-Capacity-Filtering/dp/B005FDCXJI/ref=pd_sbs_sg_4.

I have some questions about the Lifesaver jerry cans please...

1) Is it true that the big Lifesavers jerry cans (10000 and 20000) can make the water found in Mexico and Central America totally safe to drink?

2) How does the taste of really funky water filtered through a Lifesaver taste compare to reverse osmosis water?

3) Is the Lifesaver still the happening thing for serious portable water filtration or is there something better now?

Thanks!

 

[madmax718]

Water will still taste a little funky. More carbon, less funkly flavors. You definately want some ion exchange or carbon down stream. More the merrier. Those will remove the arsenic, PCB's, and other dissolved "stuff" -

Osmosis can provide purer quality water, and so can distillation. Just depends on water quality if you need to go that far.

 

[magentawave]

So you tasted the water from the Lifesaver? If so, did you try it with the carbon filter?

 

[madmax718]

The smaller units taste fine. I assume if you get the special charcoal cap it would be fine as well. I got rid of mine because it had to be kept wet- and there was a expiration date. (3-5 years even without use!). Gave it to a friend for travelling. The small bottle is good, but tedious.

The unit uses proprietary charcoal inserts, and according to one person who bought it, doesn't come with the special cap or insert. Purchase separately.

The filter market is much like the ink jet printer market; derive as much income from repeated consumables and sell the item at a cheap price.

the lifesaver system like any other filter- will clog up with time- and slow down output. The thing to realize is that it doesn't filter and *store* water. It just filters before point of use. and you must continue to pump, otherwise you will not get water.

Lets say you want to make soup for your party of 8 tonight. Your going to start with 2 gallons of water. The lifesaver unit produces 2L of water /min when new, at 1 bar of pressure. It would take you 4 minutes to fill your pot, with you constantly pumping to keep the 1 bar.

You want to take a shower? Use 10L of water? Thats 5 minutes of pumping and filling to do it.

But here's the kicker: (from their own manual)

"The activated carbon filter is incorporated into the tap housing. This is not designed to be removed."

"After any long trip and or when storing LIFESAVER jerrycan the activated carbon tap filter should be removed and discarded and replaced with the standard tap provided. Only replace with a new activated carbon filter tap immediately before your next trip."

"flow rate with carbon filter tap;To reduce chemical contamination within the water it needs a contact time with the activated carbon. With a carbon filter tap fitted the flow of water will slow significantly. This is normal. "

How slow is slow exactly? They don't tell you. But I wouldn't be surprised that given the size of the carbon cap it will be less than half the advertised rate. They rate each tap at 500L at a price of about 12 dollars per cap. So about 100 gallons or so.

Filling a cook pot taking 10 minutes is way too long. Even if you use another container, you'd still have to pump every few minutes, just to fill another container.

I love buying and testing filters, but this system fits none of my needs- There are plenty of great gravity filters out there that could fill your needs.

I want a jerry can full of potable water, not one that is full of dirty water. that's just my philosophy of use; yours may vary.

 

[magentawave]

There are plenty of great gravity filters out there that could fill your needs.

But are those other gravity filters as effective in filtering out the nasties as a Lifesaver jerry can would be? What do you recommend?


Thank you for all your good information!

 

[madmax718]

If you have a big need for water, (which I think you do), here's what I would do:

1 jerry cans (for clean water only) easy to store, easy to use. you can also use foldable cubes, one with a pump really helps and makes life easy.

2 Dirty cubes for gathering water.

If you get extremely turbid water- no matter what situation you have, it will not work through a normal filter. Not Lifesaver, sawyer, kayadyn, big berkey, etc. There's only two widely available products that deal with this in a good way, and thats PUR clean water drinking packets, and also a military packet (but I've never seen the military packet in anything larger than a quart treatment size). They have flocking agents and will bind together all the suspended nasties (along with parasites, etc. )

http://www.pg.com/pur_packet.shtml

The smaller sizes are unther the name of chlor floc http://www.amazon.com/Chlor-Floc-Military-Purification-Powder-Packets/dp/B0002UCSEO. Same basic principle. Different compound.

Pur uses calcium hypochlorite as a disinfectant and iron sulfate as a flocculating agent.

Chlor-Floc uses sodium dichloroisocyanurate as a disinfectant and aluminum sulfate as a flocculating Agent.

I'd keep some of this around if you experience extremely murky water. This is a worse case scenario where all other methods to procure decent water is unavailable, where only some passing by muddy river/stream is your only source.

Step 2:

If water is pretty decent, and you just want to "make sure" (like you would with any water source):
(its what I use if I expect to be using this much water, and part of my "SHTF" kit.)

Sawyer SP191 kit (.02 absolute viral filter). Comes with everything you need to turn any bucket (or water jug) into a mega filter. The filter is down stream so it allows the most "head' pressure" . It even includes a syringe to back flush the filter to clean the filter. (about 100 dollars + bucket cost).
Katadyn Carbon Cartridge (about 20 dollars. Carbon you can get from anywhere, you don't have to use theirs). The cartridge opens up to refill as needed. PLACE DOWNSTREAM of filter.
MSR Silt Stopper (about 20 dollars). Also back flushable 5 micron unit, but replaceable elements. this is UPSTREAM of the filter.

You can add additional carbon cartridges filled with other materials or even more carbon. You can add arsenic removers, ion exchangers, etc. Just depends what your needs are.


You can use the dirty jug and get your water- and pour into your filtering bucket. Place bucket higher than the jerry can, and the water will flow through. If you use collapsible dirty jugs, they will most likely fit within the filtering bucket when not in use. You can see the basic premise of the setup on youtube. Just look up sawyer .02

Hope this helps!

 

[4x4BNB]

3m makes a .02 micron filter. I mounted it into my van. I may later add an inline uv sterizer....

 

[magentawave]

Thats good to know about those Pur packets for hard-core emergency use. Obviously for day to day use I want to avoid chemicals. I am for sure going to research the Sawyer .02 so thanks for mentioning it.

When you said "Step 2" above and then went on to describe the Sawyer .02 system, were you suggesting using the Sawyer .02 after you used the Pur packets for really bad brown water?

Have you tried water filtered through a Sawyer .02 yet? How did it taste?

I searched Amazon for "foldable cubes" and it showed me storage cubes. Where can I find those "foldable cubes" you were referring to?

Thanks again.

 

[magentawave]

Could you describe the water filtration system you installed in your van please?

3m makes a .02 micron filter. I mounted it into my van. I may later add an inline uv sterizer....

 

[gchinsr]

I just purchased the 20k ltr Jerry for our Land Rover Camper. I wanted a simple, effective water purification system, needing no power or pipe work. What I like most about the Lifesaver system is, a 0.015 micron pore size, too small for the nastiest bits to pass through. No back flushing needed, only a front side wash to remove built up solids on the outside of the filter. As for turbid water stopping it from working, just look at some of the videos out there and see how well it works with stirred in cow patty or 5lb of dirt. There are some rather nasty looking samples tested, with no difference of what comes out, clean drinkable water. There should be no problem with South American water sources with this set up. You could always use a bandana, or schemagh to cover the opening when filling up the jerry from a dirty source to minimize the solids. Not having to add chemicals to the water is also a huge plus. I have ordered the hose, and can test the difference in flow rate with the carbon filter tap. For our needs, this is an ideal set up. If you do settle on the Lifesaver Jerry, there is a new seller on eBay(not me) selling the 20k units for about the price of the 10k's. Free shipping, and eBay $25 off coupon made it $295 delivered for our jerry. I hope this helps.

 

[madmax718]

The sawyer makes water taste like water. It does nothing on its own to improve water taste. Muddy water... Taste like muddy water. Leaf rotting in water.. Will taste just like it.

You can use the pur on its own but there is a slight reminant taste of city tap water. If you run it through the Sayer after everything is done, its just extra insurance and the downstream carbon add on.

Every filter can process muddy crap filled water.... For a while. All pleated water can be rinsed off with low pressure water. And all pleated filters will cake on dirt.. Just like air filters or motor oil filters. These are not special, they are part of just about every pleated filter design.

The question is how much does it diminish overall filter life. And big particles don't clog filters easily. Its the tiny crap that clogs filters the most. When you have to take lake water with algee bloom.. The lack of ability to back flush and clean out the filter is a filter killer.

This is why I don't advocate only 1 method-nor am I brand loyal. With water always have a backup.

You can use a steripen but won't remove contaminants and won't work for cloudy. But it will provide almost instant water

Msr miox wont remove contaminants either but has lasting purifiyng qualities for water storage. Longer dwell time. Will work with cloudy water. Requires salt and batteries. Real easy to treat large volumes of water.

Ceramic filters are cleanable but don't remove viruses and can be a bit more fragile

 

[magentawave]

gchinsr - I have a few questions about your Lifesaver 20000 please.

1) Have you tried tasting the water yet?

2) Did you buy the carbon filter?

3) Any idea how much longer it takes to pour the entire 4 gallons of the Lifesaver into a regular jerry can as compared with doing the same between two regular jerry cans?

4) Where did you find the $25 off eBay coupon?

Thanks!

I just purchased the 20k ltr Jerry for our Land Rover Camper. I wanted a simple, effective water purification system, needing no power or pipe work. What I like most about the Lifesaver system is, a 0.015 micron pore size, too small for the nastiest bits to pass through. No back flushing needed, only a front side wash to remove built up solids on the outside of the filter. As for turbid water stopping it from working, just look at some of the videos out there and see how well it works with stirred in cow patty or 5lb of dirt. There are some rather nasty looking samples tested, with no difference of what comes out, clean drinkable water. There should be no problem with South American water sources with this set up. You could always use a bandana, or schemagh to cover the opening when filling up the jerry from a dirty source to minimize the solids. Not having to add chemicals to the water is also a huge plus. I have ordered the hose, and can test the difference in flow rate with the carbon filter tap. For our needs, this is an ideal set up. If you do settle on the Lifesaver Jerry, there is a new seller on eBay(not me) selling the 20k units for about the price of the 10k's. Free shipping, and eBay $25 off coupon made it $295 delivered for our jerry. I hope this helps.

 

[magentawave]

madmax718

I watched some Youtube videos showing DIY Berkey type systems and wonder if anyone makes generic filters that are just as effective as Berkeys but for a lot less money?

Are these the "foldable cubes" you were referring to? http://tinyurl.com/qcxk4f3

The sawyer makes water taste like water. It does nothing on its own to improve water taste. Muddy water... Taste like muddy water. Leaf rotting in water.. Will taste just like it.

You can use the pur on its own but there is a slight reminant taste of city tap water. If you run it through the Sayer after everything is done, its just extra insurance and the downstream carbon add on.

Every filter can process muddy crap filled water.... For a while. All pleated water can be rinsed off with low pressure water. And all pleated filters will cake on dirt.. Just like air filters or motor oil filters. These are not special, they are part of just about every pleated filter design.

The question is how much does it diminish overall filter life. And big particles don't clog filters easily. Its the tiny crap that clogs filters the most. When you have to take lake water with algee bloom.. The lack of ability to back flush and clean out the filter is a filter killer.

This is why I don't advocate only 1 method-nor am I brand loyal. With water always have a backup.

You can use a steripen but won't remove contaminants and won't work for cloudy. But it will provide almost instant water

Msr miox wont remove contaminants either but has lasting purifiyng qualities for water storage. Longer dwell time. Will work with cloudy water. Requires salt and batteries. Real easy to treat large volumes of water.

Ceramic filters are cleanable but don't remove viruses and can be a bit more fragile

 

[madmax718]

I know there are a lot of die hard berkey fans, so I will step on some toes here:

They are not a viral filter. There, I said it.

They advertise as such, but I'd rather people be informed as to exactly what your getting. The lifesaver and sawyer are both true viral filters, as their pore sizes don't allow virus sized items through.

The First need XL somehow does it, I have no idea how, but its only listed I think to do MSA polio and a few others (that tend to bind with larger particles anyhow). I've seen a filter cut open, it is unlike any other, almost like a charcoal colored ceramic. The filter life is low though, 250 gallons, but certainly also a time tested and proven option that has worked for people world wide and for a LONG time (they make a gravity drip conversion for this as well). I've only ever used the pump, and the water tastes.. like water. No complaints.


anyhow back on topic: Berkey is not a viral filter, even in their own specs. It shows severe reduction in viral count of only one type (MSA polio) which is the most common type- but they also like to bind to larger particles, which make them easier to filter out in real life. A lot of silver impregnated filters will do the same.

A lot of people also had filter failures- again, to do the berkey in the way you want, you have to get the black ceramic cartridges; a few years ago there was a big failure rate; and this is in HOME use! i dont know how offroading and travel will make it., and how the QC is nowadays.

I personally have no issue with a larger pore filter and a chemical treatment at the end- it doesn't bother me any. I used a miox for months, with no ill effect. Viruses are pretty easy to kill; hard to filter. Crypto however, is easy to filter, but difficult to kill. If you add a charcoal filter at the end, you'd be hard pressed to know there was any chemicals in it in the first place.

Yes, those are pretty much the same. Two of those fit in one 5 gallon container. I managed to get mine with my PUR kit. (it comes with 2). The 5's are a little large. It may still fit, but I only know the smaller ones that came with the kit.

 

[gchinsr]

gchinsr - I have a few questions about your Lifesaver 20000 please.

1) Have you tried tasting the water yet?

2) Did you buy the carbon filter?

3) Any idea how much longer it takes to pour the entire 4 gallons of the Lifesaver into a regular jerry can as compared with doing the same between two regular jerry cans?

4) Where did you find the $25 off eBay coupon?

Thanks!

magentawave
I have not yet used the jerry can, as I just received it. I have been using the bottle for about a year, and am more than happy with it. I expect the first couple fills will have a faint plastic taste, and if like the bottle, will go away. That being said, I trust this filter very much and will stick with it. The seller only had the jerry, and have ordered the hose, and carbon taps from another source. Once I receive them, I can test them for different flow rates. As for transferring water between Scepters and Lifesaver jerry cans, the main opening is large enough to easily pour into, and from very quickly. The coupon was on the "My eBay" page as a code, and used on check out. This made the purchase a bit less painful, as the USA Lifesaver store closed, and the UK does not have the same specials. My background is manufacturing in the Pharmaceutical industry, with human plasma, and pore size is very important to the processes. Germs, viruses, and pathogens look very different after being exposed to them. So until something comes out better than their 0.015 filter, it will work just fine.
This is just the primary system, there are others on board as one size does not fit all need. Simplicity, and compact size were the main factors for us, as space in the 110 is limited. A plus is being able to bring the jerry outside easily, if the need arises. If the water quality is good, then it is just another jerry can, and will not take away from the filter life. The filter media are tubes, bundled together, so no issue with clogging of pleated media. Covering the opening will minimize the solids in the water, helping to extend the filter life span.