Downside of SMBs?

[MB309basket]

Okay, there are two Sportsmobiles listed for sale on other parts of this site, both extremely low mileage (35K). Also there's a local guy I know selling his at the same mileage. Add this to the SMBs for sale at the Sportsmobile website, several in the 30K miles range.

Inquiring minds want to know .... ....

What are sellers trading into? Which might give a clue to what they're trading out of?

Sportsmobiles are the stuff dreams are made of. Why are some people walking away from what could be construed as perfection?

Who here owns, or has owned, one and is willing to share shortcomings and/or needs that went unmet with the ownership of one?

Thank you.

(I have posted below one of my dream trucks that took me a long time to get and ended up not being nearly what I wanted it to be. So I know what the feeling is like, I just don't know how anyone could feel that way about a Sportsmobile)

 

[ujoint]

Hmmm. Maybe 30K cause the warranty is up & they're scared of the 6.0?

 

[OutbacKamper]

Inquiring minds want to know .... ....


Sportsmobiles are the stuff dreams are made of. Why are some people walking away from what could be construed as perfection?

Who here owns, or has owned, one and is willing to share shortcomings and/or needs that went unmet with the ownership of one?

Check out this site for some insight into Sportsmobile shortcomings

www.Badgertrek.com

 

[Christian P.]

very often there is a sharp contrast between your dream and the reality.

I am just going to be sarcastic here...

Spending $60K to $100K for a Ford Van with a heavy plywood/pressboard interior, some extra large cushions and the cheapest generic camping equipment you can find on the market (heater, stove, fridge, lights, etc).. getting 12 mpg...depreciating $10K/year...eventually the reality sets in.



But honestly, I think U-Joint is probably right about the warranty.

Here's a short write-up about my own experience:

http://1996sportsmobilebuildup.blogspot.com/

 

[MB309basket]

Spending $60K to $100K for a Ford Van with a heavy plywood/pressboard interior, some extra large cushions and the cheapest generic camping equipment you can find on the market (heater, stove, fridge, lights, etc).. getting 12 mpg...depreciating $10K/year...eventually the reality sets in.



But honestly, I think U-Joint is probably right about the warranty.

Here's a short write-up about my own experience:

http://1996sportsmobilebuildup.blogspot.com/

Thanks. I am going to spend some time on your blog this rainy afternoon.

The point about the depreciation is exactly what I am trying to figure out. The owners are pah-chinging themselves by selling their rigs now. That initial depreciation is very costly.

So what I am reading between the lines is that they look good on paper, but in application they leave something to be desired. My guess is that "something" is related to trying to be too many things. Really are not good daily drivers. Really are too big for offroad applications. Really are too small for full-time living. All this is aside from quality/price issues.

It is also all conjecture, as I have no experience with them. I have, however, had a Syncro Vanagon AdventureWagen, so I am not wholly inexperienced with the breed.

 

[Martyn]

very often there is a sharp contrast between your dream and the reality.

I am just going to be sarcastic here...

Spending $60K to $100K for a Ford Van with a heavy plywood/pressboard interior, some extra large cushions and the cheapest generic camping equipment you can find on the market (heater, stove, fridge, lights, etc).. getting 12 mpg...depreciating $10K/year...eventually the reality sets in.



But honestly, I think U-Joint is probably right about the warranty.

Here's a short write-up about my own experience:

http://1996sportsmobilebuildup.blogspot.com/

Most Sportsmobile owners have financed their rigs with an RV loan for 10 - 15 years. The interest they pay is tax deductible as the mortgage on a second home, and the monthly payments are low. So I don't think it's the purchase price or depreciation that's getting to them.

I'd have to think more the economy and the price of fuel is a factor. Both the gasoline and diesel versions get poor mileage and with the price of fuel at and over $3.00 per gallon it may be hitting home. Carrying your house around on the back of your vehicle drastically reduces your mileage, and many people use the vehicle as their daily drive.

3 year ago when they purchased people were paying in the low $2.00 per gallon, and they were only talking about the possible prospect of it reaching $3.00.

 

[kerry]

(I have posted below one of my dream trucks that took me a long time to get and ended up not being nearly what I wanted it to be. So I know what the feeling is like, I just don't know how anyone could feel that way about a Sportsmobile)

Curious as to what disappoints you about the 407d. I've owned a couple of similar vehicles, a 307d motorhome in Europe and a 409d van conversion in the US. In my view the XX7d vehicles are significantly underpowered with a low top speed compared to what most Americans are used to driving. This is further complicated at altitude by the fact that MB never turbocharged their 616's or 617 engines in their vans despite the fact that they turbo'd the 617 in their cars.
I didn't mind my 307d in Europe, but living at altitude, the 409d was a little too underpowered although my reason for selling ultimately was that it was too small for 3 people.

 

[MB309basket]

Thread hijack - sorry

Curious as to what disappoints you about the 407d.

...

In my view the XX7d vehicles are significantly underpowered with a low top speed...

Yes sir, that about sums it up. My 407D was in great shape, ran beautifully, was simple to understand, looked good, but could not get out of its own way.

I thought I was going to build my RTW vehicle out of it, but practically speaking, my life needs to go by at more than 50 miles per hour. At least until and if I get to Patagonia ...

Before that, I had a 407 gas fire van with gullwing doors, and that was going to be my RTW carrier. Before that was an International gas minibus. Before that was a Syncro Vanagon. Before that was a diesel vanagon. It's a Sanford & Son deal for me.

Now I am working on a 309D bus, as well as a Sprinter, so hopefully I will make some meaningful progress. Also working on my wife, as she thinks we should look responsible for 10 more years before we go.

 

[akphotobob]

I have never owned a Sportsmobile, so keep that in mind, but I think it would be an outstanding choice for you. The 6.0 Ford diesel is suspect, so just make sure you get a 7.3 Ford Diesel, an excellant motor. It went in a lot of medium duty trucks so I would think service and parts would be available all over the world. One of your questions is, is a van large enough to live in. I can address that. I lived in a converted box van for 6 years and loved it. I am now living in a homemade camper which is smaller than a fullsize van and again, I love it. I love it so much I have a website dedicated to living in vehicles like vans. http://cheaprvliving.com/

I am a member of a very active Yahoo group called vandwellers http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/VanDwellers/ Which is full of members who live in vans fulltime for years at a time. Many are in minivans. One of our members lives in a Sportsmobile with 7.3 and he loves it. He has been all over the USA with it and South Africa as well. We also have several members in the UK, Australia, and New Zealand, Join the group and ask this question there and you will get a lot of help. Bob

 

[jammyauto]

The fact that there are 2 vans for sale on this site does not indicate the people are "dumping" thier SMB's. They build on average one a day so there are few out there at this point. Sure there are some downsides. Harsh front end/lack of up travel has been my biggest disappointment and other shortcomings have been pointed out here as well. Sure there have been nicer vehicles built but I think that the overall quality is much higher than most other US built conversions. The resale value is also exceptional for the most part. As for the milage also consider that most SMB's are not "daily drivers". My '05 has 10k on it. I wish it had more as the only time I use it is when we go camping, which says how much I use it. Hopefully I'll get 10k more on it this year. Yes you can also get much more value in a DIYS vehicle but many do not have the time/skill/tools etc. for such a project. Even with the issues that I have seen I highly reccomend SMB ownership to anyone who asks me about mine. Having said that I am allready thinking about replacing my SMB. I must say I enjoy the "build" as much as the use. My kids are currently 8 and 11 years. They sleep upstairs in the poptop now. I'll keep my smb for another 4 years or so until such time comes as my kids no longer whish to camp with us, or at least can drive the smb and use it themselves either way. My next camper will be a bit larger and more comfortable and probably a little less capable off road. I'm thinking something along the size of an earthroamer or RUF camper. Maybe a sprinter 4x4 will be available by that time.

 

[MB309basket]

The fact that there are 2 vans for sale on this site does not indicate the people are "dumping" thier SMB's.

Didn't mean to imply that they were "dumping" their rigs.

I think your comment about 10k miles on an 05 goes right to the heart of the matter. The matter being that even if you get to use it a lot, if it is not your daily driver, it doesn't rack up the miles. It's how the tool gets used: My iPod has run perhaps 800 hours in the past two years, whereas my Makita has only run an aggregate of 10 hours.

It sounds like for your use, at this time, your SMB is a great solution. Your use does not include using it as a grocery-getter, which is sensible.

BTW: I believe your name is favorably mentioned anytime anyone on the west coast speaks of a Subaru/Vanagon conversion. I also believe you and/or a pal had one or two Mercedes 608D campers for sale last year that got sold before I could come take a look. Am I right on either of those?

 

[jammyauto]

Your right on both accounts. BTW I may be interested in another Mercedes van project if you know of one. I'd like to do a 4x4 conversion and use a GM duramax/allison.

 

[geodasher]

Sportsmobiles are the stuff dreams are made of. Why are some people walking away from what could be construed as perfection?

Who here owns, or has owned, one and is willing to share shortcomings and/or needs that went unmet with the ownership of one?

I don't own one although, like you, I find them intriguing and even took the trouble to visit the Fresno factory. We can learn a lot from owners on the Sportsmobileforum where a strong love-hate relationship comes across, for example:

"After a year of Sportsmobile ownership I thought I would write down some observations... <long list of problems including brakes, engine cooling and springs> ...I love my Sportsmobile."

"There is so much slop in all moving components on my steering column (other than the steering wheel) that it is actually a challenge to get any of them to work on the first try."

"While doing an oil change recently, I opened the hood and really looked around at the engine compartment for the first time. During this casual inspection I found a small handful of loose fasteners and a razor blade just randomly lying in various places."

"I just got back from SMBF for a second repair to the front sway bar pin that sheared off (this time at Death Valley). No big deal as I’m close to Fresno."

"It only took one or two nights of raising the electric penthouse top before I noticed that part of the rubber seal that lines the bottom outside lip of the top was out of place. I climbed up the exterior ladder and took a closer look. The rubber seal is attached to the top with many round/flat fasteners. One of these fasteners was noticeably damaged and upon further inspection, so was the top itself."

"After a number of visits to a couple Ford dealers to address issues we have had with the van itself (engine noises, brakes, etc.) under warranty, I am certain that we will NEVER again purchase a Ford vehicle."

"I was so impressed when we picked up our SMB last year at this time, that I wanted to order another one just to see if planning it out would be as much fun as the first time."

The Sportsmobile is an attractive package, referred to as a Westy on steroids by some owners, and appears to be getting better each year. There are enough options to make your head spin, so many that keeping the van within its weight limits can be a challenge. Unfortunately, the fit and finish seems to be erratic and getting things repaired can be a hassle. It's a good choice for some people, especially small families who boondock, but I imagine there are some who buy into it before realizing that it is not really what they wanted.

 

[MB309basket]

... I may be interested in another Mercedes van project if you know of one. I'd like to do a 4x4 conversion and use a GM duramax/allison.

I don't know of anything presently. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

I believe the motor in the -09 series is the OM-352 that was put into so many Unimogs (I know mine is). So your donor motor can likely be used to offset some of the costs of the conversion. Good luck.

 

[kerry]

I don't know of anything presently. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

I believe the motor in the -09 series is the OM-352 that was put into so many Unimogs (I know mine is). So your donor motor can likely be used to offset some of the costs of the conversion. Good luck.

Yes, but the XX09d series can be confusing. The 309d is the OM 352 but the 209d or 409d's are OM 617 engines, roughly the same motor as found in the 300d cars. It's the five cylinder version of the 616.