Venturing into uncharted waters... Looking for advice on buying my first truck.

[kojackJKU]

suburban and off road equipped camper pop up. all bases covered. Have a look at the baja trailer, coleman E3 series and a few others. I have a basic 10 ft skamper I am putting into my garage over the winter, and welding in some braces, repairing bumpers to fit on a cargo bed, adding shakle lift and shocks to fit bigger tires, and dual optima deep cycle batteries. Also adding a roof rack for toys and extra cargo as well.

total investment for that will be about 6k. and I feel that the trailer will be able to follow me off road on most trails I go through. The wife and kids will be comfortable and we will have some creature comforts.

Im installing airbags on both my rigs to accomidate extra weight for adventures.

 

[ChuckB]

I have been looking at the 1/2 tons to see what the GVWR numbers look like. I know some people suggested looking at on 3/4 ton and above, but I wanted to see if there was anymore feedback since I've never loaded a vehicle to this extent.

The example I looked at first:

Vehicle Weight: 5625 lbs

GVWR: 7100 lbs

Payload: 1500 lbs

FWC Hawk Model (dry weight): 895 lbs

So if my math is correct that leaves me with ~600 lbs to load the vehicle. Add 2 adults, 2 kids and 130 lbs of dog and I'm left with about 200 lbs before I have exceeded the GVWR of the vehicle. This isn't looking good since I haven't packed anything else at this point. (edit) So, I just googled GVWR to get the exact definition and apparently it includes passenger weight. I gain about 300 more pounds, but still probably not enough of a cushion to be safe.

Now I'm sure people exceed the GVWR. However, I imagine it is not prudent to do so because it is unsafe and over-stresses vehicle components and changes the dynamics of vehicle handling.

So for my specific needs, If I'm going to abide by the GVWR, then is definitely looks like a 1/2 ton is not an option.

 

[Buliwyf]

Eggzactly.
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The half tons have inflated towing #'s, but they can't escape the GVWR for bed cargo and campers. They might get away with huge towing #'s because they have decent brakes and trailers can be balenced, but an 1/2 ton can't use it's brakes effectively if it's unstable, the ABS kicks in and wrecks everything. If you get close to approaching the GVWR of any of the half tons, or even 1 tons, you'll likely need airbags to level them back out.
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I'm not sure if half tons still have C-clip axles or floating axles like the 1 tons do. And it's far more likely to find a 3/4-1ton with manual transfer cases. All 1/2 tons I've seen lately were pushbutton/dial up 4x4.
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Noone really test these on a slalom course. They just stick a label on the visor that says "Will flip over and kill everyone". But when I go out and start swinging a trailer or camper around with a 1 ton it's not nearly as stable as it's big brothers.

 

[wfscot]

Thanks for starting this thread, Chuck! My girlfriend and I have been looking at getting a vehicle to support our summer and winter climbing outings, and we have been converging on a similar answer: pre-07 Ram 2500 diesel with a FWC popup. Like you, I'm not set on this, but it's looking pretty good.

Here are a few things I have noted:

First, I'm a tall guy (6'4") and was a bit surprised by the Dodge extended cab. I could, in a pinch, sit behind myself. I wouldn't want to do it forever, but it works. My girlfriend will have her seat up a bit, so there's even more room behind her. With the seat up, too, we could easily fit 4-6 large Rubbermaid bins full of stuff. For us, crew cab is not a requirement. If you haven't already, go sit in a few and see for yourself. Interestingly, with the manual, I think you may lose the ability to put someone in the middle of the front seat. That may be a concern given you extra passengers. Again, go check it out for yourself.

Along those lines, I was a bit shocked by how roomy the FWC Hawk was. I had been assuming 8' bed w/ Granby until we got a chance to go by the FWC showroom in Sac. Again, it's just two of us, but the Hawk is plenty. It would be tight, but I don't think it's out of the question to fit two small kids in the 2nd bed, too. Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like the difference between the 6.5' bed and 8' bed is huge in terms of a DD, parking, maneuverability, etc. Like the cab, if you haven't already, find a FWC (or better yet, go to the showroom) and test a few models out.

In terms of storage, too, don't forget the FWC roof. As climbers, we carry a ton of gear, and the plan is to put the bulk of it on top of the FWC (Thule box, ski racks, etc.). FWC offers lift assist options (gas and manual) to help you get the roof up with a few hundred pounds on it. There are some obvious downsides (clearance and the difficulty of getting to stuff with the roof popped), but it feels like the only way we can make the 6.5' bed work due to the decreased storage space. This definitely strengthens the argument for the 3/4 ton (over 1/2 ton), though.

Finally, have been going back and forth between gas and diesel, largely due to concerns about getting stuck after a cold night in the winter. We have discovered that there are a lot of aftermarket solutions, though (thanks to another thread on this site), so the latest thinking is just to experiment with the stock setup in CO this winter and see how burly of a solution we need to add.

I'm not set on any of this, though. I'm entirely open to any insight from people that have more experience with this stuff.

 

[wfscot]

BTW, why only '03+ for the Cummins? Are there big issues with the 6BT and ISB models?

 

[lstzephyr]

Dodge didn't offer a diesel crewcab before 03.

I have also rode in the back of a 1994-2002 dodge extended cab and while it wasn't the most comfortable thing it was far more roomy than the back of a small 4 door car. I'm 6'2" and I would rather ride in the back of an extended cab ram than the back of my daily driver 4 door escort for example.

 

[ChuckB]

wfscot, thanks for that info and I hope this thread helps you as well!

Your comments about your height and the cab are interesting. That gives me some hope that the crew cab could work. I'm only 6'0".

The bed length is also up in the air. I do have some experience with an 8ft bed as my father-in-law has an F150 extended cab with an 8ft bed and in my mind that is a long truck. I do need to go look at an FWC in person to really wrap my head around the relationship between the different models. I need to take a ExPo Mike up on his offer!

I'm liking the looks of the 2nd gen trucks. For some reason they just look good to me.

Also need to discuss this whole deal with the wife...

 

[k9lestat]

8ft bed with a flip pak and a raised floor with a drawer storage system maybe?

 

[ChuckB]

Flip Pak is definitely an option as well. I see that set up as having an extreme amount of utility on a daily basis, especially since you don't have to remove/install the shell when you want to use it.
I'm not sure what they sell for off the top of my head, but a flip Pak could be a good first step in the truck camping world.

 

[dddonkey]

I would look at getting a either and another SUV (burn, ex, ext....) or just get a nice, what feels good to you behind the wheel, 4x4 half ton with a pop camper. If i were to do it today I would get a tundra max crew (bigger backseat), put a small lift with 33" tires and tow a pop up. If you really wanted you can put a camper shell on the bed to keep the stroller, dogs, and other gear to keep it out of the rain. I used to camp with my wife, 2 kids, and 220LB dog and we all fit into my crew cab (it was tight) and towed the trailer.

 

[verdesardog]

I love my 06 CTD. Good fuel milage, can tow just about anything, my dog rides in the back most of the time. When I go for an extended camping trip she rides in the front seat if I'm gong solo or the back seat if I have a companion. The bed of the truck can be loaded to the top (I've never had to load it that much) and you still have room in the cab for people and thier necessary stuff. My truck does have some upgrades in the front end and a slight lift, 200psi OBA, exhaust brake and air bags in the rear. It replaces a 1994 Dakota (with 270,000+ miles) which was just too small for what I use it for. I love it!

 

[njtacoma]

Just a quick thought, my kids are now 10 & 12 and they grow! We have a 2004 Tacoma Double cab, not a ton of room I know, but it was easier to fit them when they were small then it is now. We used to put back packs under their feet when they were in car seats, but now they think their feet and legs should be in that space!

Any way, see if you would like to ride in the back seat of the cabs, and make your decision on size based on that. I don't have many of the same requirements as you, but am considering 4x4 vans or OBS Ford crew cabs.

Beware! those kids will grow.

 

[rxinhed]

Or something just a bit different

How about an International?

http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/2000-International-4800-Crew-Cab-4x4-110913208


http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1999-International-4800-110186757


http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/1995-International-4800-4x4-E-One-Hale-Wildland-Brush-Fire-Truck-105043437


http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/listing/2014-International-TerraStar-4x4-110853268


Just some thoughts outside the Big 3 box, you know.

 

[ChuckB]

I would look at getting a either and another SUV (burn, ex, ext....) or just get a nice, what feels good to you behind the wheel, 4x4 half ton with a pop camper. If i were to do it today I would get a tundra max crew (bigger backseat), put a small lift with 33" tires and tow a pop up. If you really wanted you can put a camper shell on the bed to keep the stroller, dogs, and other gear to keep it out of the rain. I used to camp with my wife, 2 kids, and 220LB dog and we all fit into my crew cab (it was tight) and towed the trailer.

If I get another SUV, I'm looking at an Excursion. I don't think a 1/2 ton is going to meet my needs. I want to be able to travel with a slide-in camper and tow a another vehicle. From what I've seen so far this combo would exceed the GCWR of the 1/2 tons.

 

[ChuckB]

I love my 06 CTD. Good fuel milage, can tow just about anything, my dog rides in the back most of the time. When I go for an extended camping trip she rides in the front seat if I'm gong solo or the back seat if I have a companion. The bed of the truck can be loaded to the top (I've never had to load it that much) and you still have room in the cab for people and thier necessary stuff. My truck does have some upgrades in the front end and a slight lift, 200psi OBA, exhaust brake and air bags in the rear. It replaces a 1994 Dakota (with 270,000+ miles) which was just too small for what I use it for. I love it!

Chief, I really like your set-up! It is very similar to what I have in mind.

Just a quick thought, my kids are now 10 & 12 and they grow! We have a 2004 Tacoma Double cab, not a ton of room I know, but it was easier to fit them when they were small then it is now. We used to put back packs under their feet when they were in car seats, but now they think their feet and legs should be in that space!

Any way, see if you would like to ride in the back seat of the cabs, and make your decision on size based on that. I don't have many of the same requirements as you, but am considering 4x4 vans or OBS Ford crew cabs.

Beware! those kids will grow.

Good points. Being the Toyota guy that I am, I originally wanted a Tacoma, then a Tundra. For the reasons you mentioned and then some of the requirements I have I'm quickly realizing (unfortunately) that neither of those are going to work for me. I'm also considering the 4x4 vans.

How about an International?

Just some thoughts outside the Big 3 box, you know.

I wish!