Other Cab Over Trucks - Ford , Chevy, Volvo, Nissan ?

[4wheeldrivevan]

I realize I'm posting in the Heavy Japanese Truck section but there does not seem to be an area devoted to other cab-over based Expedition Campers.

All I seem to find are FUSO and NPR on this site.

Is there a reason people are not doing more camper builds on any of the following platforms?

Chevy T8500
Ford CF 7000 and 8000
Sterling 360 = rebadged Mitsubishi FUSO
VOLVO FE
ISUZU FRR
Nissan UD 2300 Condor
M1088 Military
M1090 Military

I'm assuming some of these are just a lot larger than need be with worse MPG and may require a CDL to drive?

I saw a good deal on a 1997 Ford CF7000 locally and thought it might make a nice starting point for a camper build. It's got the legendary Cummins 5.9 12 valve (6BT) which could be pepped up pretty easily with some bolt-ons from Bankspower.com, Then maybe rockwell axles front and rear and transmission and transfer case from any late 90's dodge 2500 ? Sound like overkill? This is probably why most of you just end up using the FUSO or NPR...

What front axle options do I have for a truck this large (Ford CF 7000)? I'm guessing a Dana 60 is too small and Rockwell is massive overkill.

 

[mhiscox]

Although the situation is different in the rest of the world, the Fuso FG is, and has been, the only low cab forward truck imported into North America that has four-wheel drive. That is the principal reason you find much more about it than the other LCF trucks. There are some military trucks you can get, and there are certainly many trucks that could be converted--the television show Xtreme Off-Road is in the middle of converting an old N-Series Isuzu for off-road use by pretty much replacing every driveline component--but when it comes to going down to the dealer and exchanging your money for a cabover truck, only the Fuso FG will have four wheel drive standard.

It's also the case that the majority of the trucks you listed have higher gross vehicle weight ratings than would commonly be needed for a modest-sized camper. My Unimog camper, which was a double cab and had a cabin 14 feet long was physically a pretty big truck, and it weighed 16,000 pounds. A Class 6 or 7 truck may be right for a really giant camper, but too stiff for the more normal build. For comparison, even the big EarthRoamer XV-LTs are only Class 5 trucks.

The CDL becomes an issue at 26,000 pounds GVWR, and does not apply to genuine RVs, so it's an issue when buying, building and testing a Class 7 or 8 truck, though not once it's built out. And you are right that the fuel economy will be somewhat less. But nothing should stop you from your plan if that's what you want to do, and it could be a very cool truck when done. Just recognize that if you value your time for much of anything, it would probably cost you a lot more to get a truck like your Ford CF to be as capable as a used Fuso FG that you could immediately start working on the cabin for.

 

[pugslyyy]

I realize I'm posting in the Heavy Japanese Truck section but there does not seem to be an area devoted to other cab-over based Expedition Campers.

All I seem to find are FUSO and NPR on this site.

Is there a reason people are not doing more camper builds on any of the following platforms?

Chevy T8500
Ford CF 7000 and 8000
Sterling 360 = rebadged Mitsubishi FUSO
VOLVO FE
ISUZU FRR
Nissan UD 2300 Condor
M1088 Military
M1090 Military

I'm assuming some of these are just a lot larger than need be with worse MPG and may require a CDL to drive?

I saw a good deal on a 1997 Ford CF7000 locally and thought it might make a nice starting point for a camper build. It's got the legendary Cummins 5.9 12 valve (6BT) which could be pepped up pretty easily with some bolt-ons from Bankspower.com, Then maybe rockwell axles front and rear and transmission and transfer case from any late 90's dodge 2500 ? Sound like overkill? This is probably why most of you just end up using the FUSO or NPR...

What front axle options do I have for a truck this large (Ford CF 7000)? I'm guessing a Dana 60 is too small and Rockwell is massive overkill.

In addition to what Mike said, we also like the Fuso/NPR/Unimog for the wide availability of parts and service internationally.

Nothing wrong with what you are considering and I would love to see a build - would be a cool project. The guys over at pirate4x4 might have better advice on the conversion you are considering.

 

[Flys Lo]

What axle you chose probably comes down to how heavy you expect your camper to be fully laden. That Ford probably has a front axle rating between 8k-13k lbs depending on model.
A Super D60 (out of a 4x4 F450/F550) has a rating of 7k lbs. That would probably be fine to use if you align your weight more over the rear axle and/or build something that is well short of the trucks full GVW.

That said, a 2.5T Rockwell with its 10k lb road rating isn't overkill at all.

 

[4wheeldrivevan]

Was thinking about something like this:



26,000 GVW, shorten the frame by around 5 feet and put a camper on the back, Make it look a little like a Dakar T5 Truck:




Perhaps some day in the future convert it to 4x4.

For some reason I really like the 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve and this already has one, it's also a manual 6 speed. I'm thinking it would be easier to convert this to 4x4 than to do a 5.9 engine swap on a FUSO and have to figure out how to get the heat, AC and other items working again as well as deal with engine clearance and re-routing all the wiring.

I owned an NPR box truck 6 or 7 years ago and was happy with the fuel economy but not very happy with the top speed. It was happiest around 55MPH. When traveling the highways of the american south west most of the traffic is moving at 75 - 80 mph. Living on the East Coast of the US and all my favorite camping sites being on the west coast, I need something that can eat up large amounts of highway a little quicker than 55 mph.

I've also done a ton of Van camping in an 1997 Ford E250 all over Colorado, Utah and California and was pretty shocked at what you can do with just rear wheel drive. I never got stuck and explored some pretty rough terrain. The RWD cab-over would be fine for getting me to semi remote camp sites and from there I can hop on a dual sport bike if I want to explore deeper in the back country.

 

[dlh62c]

The RWD cab-over would be fine for getting me to semi remote camp sites and from there I can hop on a dual sport bike if I want to explore deeper in the back country.

Sounds like a great plan!

TruckConversions.net is a great resource of information on DIY camper builds.

 

[pugslyyy]

I've also done a ton of Van camping in an 1997 Ford E250 all over Colorado, Utah and California and was pretty shocked at what you can do with just rear wheel drive. I never got stuck and explored some pretty rough terrain. The RWD cab-over would be fine for getting me to semi remote camp sites and from there I can hop on a dual sport bike if I want to explore deeper in the back country.

Sounds like an excellent plan! 2WD, stick a winch on front to get you out of any trouble you find and go camping!

 

[4wheeldrivevan]

Searching for a good front axle I found these on Ebay:


The gearing is too low for my application but for someone these would be an incredible deal $295 for something our government was originally paying over $19,000 for.

Specs:

These are new un-issued axles used on Mine Resistant Military Vehicles. They are really strong and well

made.

Perfect for Rock-crawlers or 4 x 4's where you can setup 4 wheel steering.


They have hydraulic/air lockers and planetary gears.

Axle ratio is 6:84

These axles originally cost $19,000 each


We can forklift load on site

Crate dimensions are 105" x 34" x 34"

Each axle weighs 1500 lbs.


Reference part numbers below:

PN: (0FW39)S-24C-027

NSN: 2530-01-555-5443

S-24C027-AT0001

 

[charlieaarons]

Not necessarily too low. Some Allison automatics have a 0.65 2nd overdrive. That times 6.84 times 420 rev/mile (14.00R20 XZLs) = 1870 rpm at 60mph, about right for 6BT running a heavy truck.
Even 395/85R20 XZLs would work ok. Although the rear axle would have to be identical....
A 0.73 overdrive with a manual gearbox like a Roadranger would give an overall ratio of ~5.00:1, giving 2100 rpm @ 60 with 14.00s. Also OK for a heavy truck, don't really want to cruise over 60 (in my humble experience).

Charlie

 

[Amesz00]

Axletech, yes? When I was 1st toying with the idea of running 12.5r20s on a FG, I thought of axle swaps for better brakes, diff locks etc. I priced a set of the smaller 3000 series (5.5t rating). Came back at about 12k euros each... But that included any ratio I wanted, any width I wanted, planetary hubs (obviously), diff locks, disk brakes + CTIS..
Also curious was that the price is in Euros.. obviously they must be made somewhere in europe. But I thought axletech was formally Rockwell axle division (think it says that somewhere on their website)..

 

[4wheeldrivevan]

$295 USD right now on Ebay, I think they have at least a dozen of them at this price, new never used. At this price I should buy them all.

 

[mog]

John (JRhetts here on the Portal) runs a heavy-iron FM260 Fuso with great success.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/89454-My-Fuso-FM260-is-converging

 

[Quill]

I have always like the small Mack trucks from the 90s. They have sold pretty cheap.

 

[DzlToy]

I always like the CF7000 series trucks and the Mack Midliners. That said and as previously noted, there is virtually no aftermarket of any kind, so everything would be a custom build. The exception to this is the venerable 12 valve Cummins. They will run 400k with proper maintenance, can be modified for tons of power, came in trucks, heavy equipment, boats and generators the world over and are pretty bad *** motors. If you wanted to convert to 4WD using a Dodge transmission (46/47 series) this would certainly not be difficult compared to a complete engine and driveline swap. An Allison 5/6 speed can also be installed behind a 12 valve with readily available adapters.

Depending on the terrain that you are planning to travel and how you plan to use your truck, a larger cabover could be huge benefit or a hindrance. On the east coast where spaces, streets and trails are tighter, it could be an issue. Out west where things are more open, having the extra space, fuel capacity, etc would be great. If you want to travel state roads and hit national and state parks, a larger vehicle would be fine. If you want to go down a narrow single lane dirt road to a very remote campsite, an Isuzu FTR on 14R20's is not your friend. An NPR cab is about 78" wide at the belt line. An FTR is 96" wide at the outter factory fender. An NPR is about 8 feet tall on factory wheels and tires. An FTR is closer to 10 feet tall.

The axles posted for $295 would be a terrible option IMO, they are insanely heavy at 1500 pounds each and have virtually no aftermarket for gear, lockers, hubs, etc. That is even a poor choice for a rock buggy where you could fab around the axle. Cheap or free does not a good choice make. A top loading (duece and a half) Rockwell would also be a terrible choice. A very tall center section makes fitting it into a cabover truck a night mare. You would need VERY tall tires to make up for the 6.72 gearing and to fill the gap in the lift that would be required to fit it.

As Mike noted, Ian is building an NPR for a flat bed tow rig using pretty basic fab skills and tools. The air bed is pretty cheesy IMO, especially for a rock buggy. Just throw some 4 foot ramps up there and be done. The air ride suspension could be equalled by a properly tuned damper and leaf spring suspension without the need for additional fab work. Ford/Sterling axles would not have been my choice there, but the width matches, there is an aftermarket for them and they were cheap. The Cummins and Allison seem to fit nicely and the front axle did too. I hate the huge wheel gap created many 4WD cabover trucks, it just looks awful and it appears he has eliminated much of that with only a 35" tire. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out. Any fab shop worth their salt should be able to complete a conversion like that. No need to go to Tulsa or MH and pay 25-30k for a 4wd conversion.

A friend of mine just bought a 1999 Fuso FE for 3k with a nice flatbed. He is going to sell the bed ($800-1000) and we will use the truck for mock up and design. We are considering items like engine swap, 4WD conversion, interior upgrades, lift kit for larger tires, suspension work, etc. It would not be for a business per se, more of a fun project that could generate some ideas and maybe a product or two in the distant future.

Good luck in your search and keep us posted on what you decide to do.

Cheers