I am a hunter, yet I do not like to kill animals

[Dave]

How do you recover a duck from the middle of a cattle tank with no dog? A Hula Hoop and a long piece of string . . .

Hey, there are always great stories about making the best of a less then ideal situation while afield. A hula hoop tied to a string sounds like the perfect start to one of those stories!

If you ever find yourself in this part of the country November - January, look me up and we'll take you on a duck hunt. If the river is right, we might even show you why the jon boat has Warn winch.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

If the river is right, we might even show you why the jon boat has Warn winch.

That sounds exciting . . .

So, Dan: I hope we have helped with your questions amid all the ruckus. Bottom line is there is no reason to feel something is wrong if you experience sadness after killing an animal; quite the opposite. If the sadness overpowers the positive feelings you gain from hunting, perhaps it's time to hang up your rifle. But it's a normal facet of being an honorable and caring hunter.

 

[snipecatcher]

That sounds exciting . . .

So, Dan: I hope we have helped with your questions amid all the ruckus. Bottom line is there is no reason to feel something is wrong if you experience sadness after killing an animal; quite the opposite. If the sadness overpowers the positive feelings you gain from hunting, perhaps it's time to hang up your rifle. But it's a normal facet of being an honorable and caring hunter.

Thank you Johnathon, and thanks to everyone, even those with differing opinions. It's nice to be able to discuss in-depth and emotional topics with people who have real and valid points. I love hunting, it is something I will always do, and will pass down to my children someday. I know there are others out there who feel a deep compassion for the animals they pursue, but it seems like much of the younger generation (my age group) do not share that. Once again, thanks to all who contributed, and best of luck on your next hunt, or next trip to the grocery store until you can get some wild game. :chowtime:

 

[VikingVince]

Dan, good luck with whatever path you ultimately stay on with regard to the conflicts you originally posted. What you choose will be right for you. The differing points of view in this thread ultimately come down to a matter of personal ethics and personal choices. And since you were struggling with the basic question, I felt (and still do) it was certainly appropriate and justified to post my point of view. But if you do feel sadness after killing an animal, remember that is the voice of your Conscience. It deserves as much, if not more, consideration as the ego of your Hunter. The ego part is easy...I've never met a hunter, myself included, who doesn't view their kill as testament to their prowess and skill as a hunter. The Conscience part is more of a struggle but deserves to be listened to.

 

[BorregoWrangler]

One thing I'd like to hear comments on, and this is a bit of a challenge on my own part: I hear frequently from hunters who say they no longer hunt deer but still hunt birds, or who don't hunt but fish. It seems to me this hierarchy of justification is probably not a good thing. If it's not okay to hunt deer but okay to hunt birds, is it okay to hunt rabbits? Javelina? It seems to set up hunting in general for a slippery slope.

One thing I've noticed, with myself included, is that fishing and bird hunting is eaiser and cheaper than hunting big game. Maybe some folks just get lazy or something. Its a lot easier for me to sit along a treeline waiting for the dove to come or relax next to a campfire as I'm catfishing than it is to hike way out into the wilderness and stalk deer. :REOutShootinghunter

It can be due to a lot of different factors, I guess. I learned big game hunting with one of my best friends who is now no longer with us. Its not the same going solo or with folks I don't really know too well. Here's something else I find kinda funny. I used to hunt rabbits a lot. Loved making stew out of them. But then my wife goes and gets one for a pet. Now I there's now way I could ever hunt them again. But that's fine. I'll just stick to eating dove, quail, phesant and fish. :eatchicke

 

[EODTaco]

Dan,
I'd like to throw my 2 cents in as well. This is a great thread and I'm glad that a subject like this can be discussed in a respectful manner.

I have never been an avid hunter, though I have done it in the past and would do it again if given the opportunity. My introduction to guns, shooting, and eventually hunting started at a young age. When I was allowed by my dad to go out with my BB gun by myself, I did shoot birds without much sadness. I viewed it then as a challenge that had been met and not that I had extinguished the life of an innocent animal. My immaturity continued for some years into high school. I never had that "blood lust" that was mentioned before, but rather just lacked a sad feeling after shooting something. I still viewed it as a challenge.

In high school my views started to change. One day while driving to work after school, a group of local dogs ran in front of my truck. I slowed down to let them pass, then, when I thought that they had all gone by, I started down the road again. Then I heard that dreaded "thump" under my tire. I got out to find a beautiful golden retriever puppy, probably 6 or 8 months old, dead in the road. I went and just sat in the road next to him, my eyes welling with tears. I had cut this innocent animal's life short, although unintentionally, and I hated myself for it. I think it was then that I came to appreciate life on a whole other level.

Since then I have not killed anything that I did not intend to eat and use to the fullest extent possible. Arguments are made that you do not HAVE to kill to eat. Though this may be true, I agree with whoever said that if you made the kill you have a much greater appreciation for it (Jonathan, I think). You are faced with the fact that you alone are responsible for the death of that animal and you had better make the most of it.

Dan, the fact that you are feeling what you are feeling is a good thing, IMO. It shows that you are mature and you understand what you are doing. Even more important, I think, is that you will pass this respect for animals on to your children.

Ok, that ended up being more like 8 or 9 cents. To all who have posted, thank you for your inputs.

Bryan

 

[Streakerfreak]

Dan,
I'd like to throw my 2 cents in as well. This is a great thread and I'm glad that a subject like this can be discussed in a respectful manner.

I have never been an avid hunter, though I have done it in the past and would do it again if given the opportunity. My introduction to guns, shooting, and eventually hunting started at a young age. When I was allowed by my dad to go out with my BB gun by myself, I did shoot birds without much sadness. I viewed it then as a challenge that had been met and not that I had extinguished the life of an innocent animal. My immaturity continued for some years into high school. I never had that "blood lust" that was mentioned before, but rather just lacked a sad feeling after shooting something. I still viewed it as a challenge.

In high school my views started to change. One day while driving to work after school, a group of local dogs ran in front of my truck. I slowed down to let them pass, then, when I thought that they had all gone by, I started down the road again. Then I heard that dreaded "thump" under my tire. I got out to find a beautiful golden retriever puppy, probably 6 or 8 months old, dead in the road. I went and just sat in the road next to him, my eyes welling with tears. I had cut this innocent animal's life short, although unintentionally, and I hated myself for it. I think it was then that I came to appreciate life on a whole other level.

Since then I have not killed anything that I did not intend to eat and use to the fullest extent possible. Arguments are made that you do not HAVE to kill to eat. Though this may be true, I agree with whoever said that if you made the kill you have a much greater appreciation for it (Jonathan, I think). You are faced with the fact that you alone are responsible for the death of that animal and you had better make the most of it.

Dan, the fact that you are feeling what you are feeling is a good thing, IMO. It shows that you are mature and you understand what you are doing. Even more important, I think, is that you will pass this respect for animals on to your children.

Ok, that ended up being more like 8 or 9 cents. To all who have posted, thank you for your inputs.

Bryan

Very good post and extremely sad. Running over a dog would haunt me for life. That story gives great meaning to the whole thing.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

It's easy for many people to fool themselves into thinking that if they stop hunting, or even stop eating meat, that they will no longer cause the death of animals. Nothing could be further from the truth. Every acre of land cleared for farming is lost habitat. Animals are run over by trucks carrying vegetables to vegetarians. Oil spills from tankers used to supply the gas for trucks carrying vegetables kill millions of animals.

I know vegetarians who eat the way they do for (perceived) health reasons, and that's fine. I know others who believe they are at least reducing the number of animals that die to feed them, and that's fine too, although I'm not sure it's true. But I know other vegetarians and vegans who think their lifestyles are free of collateral damage to wildlife, and that's dead wrong. Look at the hundreds of thousands of acres of land being cleared in South America to grow soybeans to satisfy the demand of U.S. vegetarians.

If you are alive, you cause collateral deaths. It is unavoidable. I would rather be directly responsible for those deaths as much as possible, so I can more directly appreciate the consequences, both good and bad.

 

[spressomon]

It's easy for many people to fool themselves into thinking that if they stop hunting, or even stop eating meat, that they will no longer cause the death of animals. Nothing could be further from the truth. Every acre of land cleared for farming is lost habitat. Animals are run over by trucks carrying vegetables to vegetarians. Oil spills from tankers used to supply the gas for trucks carrying vegetables kill millions of animals.

I know vegetarians who eat the way they do for (perceived) health reasons, and that's fine. I know others who believe they are at least reducing the number of animals that die to feed them, and that's fine too, although I'm not sure it's true. But I know other vegetarians and vegans who think their lifestyles are free of collateral damage to wildlife, and that's dead wrong. Look at the hundreds of thousands of acres of land being cleared in South America to grow soybeans to satisfy the demand of U.S. vegetarians.

If you are alive, you cause collateral deaths. It is unavoidable. I would rather be directly responsible for those deaths as much as possible, so I can more directly appreciate the consequences, both good and bad.

Ditto opinion: Well stated Jonathan. Sorry for the hyjack but the use of animals for food and/or consumer goods is a very complex equation devoid of simple resolution at any level. The underlying issue is simply, IMO, there are too many humans on our planet for its resources. I think I read recently: At the current world's rate of consumption (all materials) we need approximately 4-Earths to sustain today's population!

 

[Ursidae69]

It's easy for many people to fool themselves into thinking that if they stop hunting, or even stop eating meat, that they will no longer cause the death of animals. Nothing could be further from the truth. Every acre of land cleared for farming is lost habitat. Animals are run over by trucks carrying vegetables to vegetarians. Oil spills from tankers used to supply the gas for trucks carrying vegetables kill millions of animals.

I know vegetarians who eat the way they do for (perceived) health reasons, and that's fine. I know others who believe they are at least reducing the number of animals that die to feed them, and that's fine too, although I'm not sure it's true. But I know other vegetarians and vegans who think their lifestyles are free of collateral damage to wildlife, and that's dead wrong. Look at the hundreds of thousands of acres of land being cleared in South America to grow soybeans to satisfy the demand of U.S. vegetarians.

If you are alive, you cause collateral deaths. It is unavoidable. I would rather be directly responsible for those deaths as much as possible, so I can more directly appreciate the consequences, both good and bad.

Thanks for posting this Jonathan. I have been harping on the soybean issue to folks for years, glad I'm not the only one. Great post.

 

[TheGillz]

Fear of going off topic but:

"The underlying issue is simply, IMO, there are too many humans on our planet for its resources. I think I read recently: At the current world's rate of consumption (all materials) we need approximately 4-Earths to sustain today's population!"

This info is at the very least HIGHELY debatable, and what can we possibly do to curb population equitably/morally/or fairly? Assuming the worlds population is 5 billion, you could divide it up into 4 person households with a 1/4 acre lot each and fit it in the state of Texas.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

And wouldn't that be a lovely place in which to live.

 

[TheGillz]

And wouldn't that be a lovely place in which to live.

Admittedly no. Its just an illustration to show the argument that the problem isn't really population or resources, but utilization and conservation.

sorry again: Back to topic.

 

[bpenn1980]

Let me start by saying this is a great thread.


I grew up in a fairly rural/suburban area of Southern California (Big Bear) and was introduced early to the outdoors through hiking, camping, fishing, exploring, etc. My family does not hunt though. In fact, my mother is a vegetarian and raised me as such. It wasnt until I was 16 that I started eating meat occasionally. (note: we ate fish occasionally...must have been the hierarchy thing. The less we identify with the animal the easier it is to not care, and fish look a whole lot less "human" than deer)

Over the years my love of the outdoors has grown to include hunting. I started with quail hunting 3 years ago at 25. I didnt know what the hell I was doing. I'd never cleaned an animal beside a fish and quickly punctured the guts, got the smell of entrails on me and couldnt finish the job. I left the only bird I managed to shoot under a bush hoping a coyote would eat it...piss poor and I felt like crap. I vowed to never let that happen again and bought several books regarding cleaning of animals, joined a hunting forum and asked questions, etc. The last two years have been great and I now actually know a little about what I'm doing out there and manage to eat a meal or two from the field. Doesnt sound like much, but its amazing how steep the learning curve can be if you start at zero.

More to the point, last year I got my first deer tag. We had some pretty bad fires out this way and I was only able to hunt one weekend. The whole time I was thinking, over and over in my head, "if I see a legal buck should I take the shot"? I was so unbelievably nervous that I might kill a deer and have a repeat of that first quail, floundering through my first field gutting and fouling it up somehow. The opportunity never presented itself so I never tested my book learned field dressing skills, but maybe this year.

In summary, I think its awesome to hear all of your perspectives regarding our relationship to the animals we kill. I see a lot of other hunters with 'blood lust', or whatever you want to call it, and its discouraging to someone who wants to learn how to be a respectful hunter and not just a guy driving his truck around and blasting away like an idiot.

Thanks, this was a refreshing read, and just in time for early season scouting!

 

[Trail Monkey]

my 2 cents. I hunt and fish. I never kill any animal purposely that i do not plan to eat or utilize in some way. i substantially enjoy the time i spend hunting and fishing, yet killing the animals i dislike. yet i feel it is my God given, scriptually approved right to do so, if I use the harvested animal. Prior to Noah, man was not given the right to eat meat. Post the flood he was given this right..