I am a hunter, yet I do not like to kill animals

[snipecatcher]

Anybody else feel the same? I know most people go through this later in their life, when they get old and have been hunting for a lifetime, but I'm 21! I've killed many types of animals, and many of them, and I'm good at what I do. Lately, I have been finding it hard to pull the trigger. This past deer season, I hadn't had any venison in over year, as we lost our deer lease and just now got a new one. The first weekend of the season, a doe stepped out at 30 yards and I couldn't bring myself to shoot. I finally told myself, just this once, I want some deer meat so bad! I'm pretty sure I closed my eyes when I shot. It was a clean kill and I ate a big chunk of meat that night that I roasted over the campfire on a stick. I don't have much of a problem shooting birds, but who knows, maybe I will sometime soon. I've got lots of respect for the animals I hunt, and do not kill anything that I cannot eat. I know most of you are probably the same way. Anybody else gone through something similar in your life?
-Dan

 

[Streakerfreak]

Anybody else feel the same? I know most people go through this later in their life, when they get old and have been hunting for a lifetime, but I'm 21! I've killed many types of animals, and many of them, and I'm good at what I do. Lately, I have been finding it hard to pull the trigger. This past deer season, I hadn't had any venison in over year, as we lost our deer lease and just now got a new one. The first weekend of the season, a doe stepped out at 30 yards and I couldn't bring myself to shoot. I finally told myself, just this once, I want some deer meat so bad! I'm pretty sure I closed my eyes when I shot. It was a clean kill and I ate a big chunk of meat that night that I roasted over the campfire on a stick. I don't have much of a problem shooting birds, but who knows, maybe I will sometime soon. I've got lots of respect for the animals I hunt, and do not kill anything that I cannot eat. I know most of you are probably the same way. Anybody else gone through something similar in your life?
-Dan

I am not a hunter as I could never kill a thing, but my future father in law "hunts". His story is something right out of the film Deer Hunter. Before he was drafted to be a Grunt in the jungles Vietnam, I guess he use to hunt all the time and had no problem killing animals. Once he got back from the war he says he can no longer pull the trigger to kill even the smallest animal. He still goes to Upstate NY with who's left of his former NYC firefighting buddy's (lost a lot of friends at the WTC). From my understanding they just go up to there cabin, shoot cans, and spend time out in the woods. It's just not in him anymore.

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

Dan, I am a hunter, and I would not have anything to do with someone who enjoyed the actual act of killing the animal. The death should always be a small tragedy; it is simply subsumed in the larger celebration of the circle of both life and death in which hunters participate so intimately.

This participation is what makes a hunter appreciate the animal he consumes. It is an appreciation that can never be gained by those who buy meat in a supermarket. It is why a hunter's ethics always insist on a clean kill, while factory-raised cattle suffer unimaginably. Costco shoppers never have to see the face of the animal they're eating, so why should they care how it lived or died, as long as it's cheap by the pound?

I realize that not all hunters share this idea, but you are obviously feeling it without realizing that it is a proper facet of being a hunter. It's why I have little empathy for those who hunt varmints or other animals that can't be eaten - that type of hunting does seem to me to be all about the killing.

Don't get me wrong - I have friends who hunt coyotes and prairie dogs who I believe are mostly ethical hunters, but I can't rationalize that part of their hunting.

Anyway, I think you should be glad you aren't callous about the killing part of hunting. If the feelings become strong enough that you can no longer hunt, so be it. But remember that no animal in the wild dies of old age. As an ethical hunter you are a legitimate part of the chain of life.

 

[XL Bar]

Dan,

Jonathan said it better than I can but I will try...

Don't feel bad about feeling bad. It is an indication that you are a thinking AND feeling human being. Killing anything should not be taken lightly.

I have cried when I have caused the death of an animal. Not entirely out of remorse but more of an overwhelming rush of emotions that is difficult to describe. Sadness, admiration, exaltation, fear? The realization that we as humans are predators and prey. It sounds strange to those who do not hunt but there is a feeling of connection to the prey, to the environment, to the big picture.

I see approximately 15-20 animals die each guiding season and have studied the reactions of the hunters each time. If the hunt has required pain, suffering, endurance, cunning and plenty of physical exertion the hunter will very often be choked up, unable to speak. Often he or she will touch the animal, talk to it. Respect it.

You may want to try to raise the difficulty level of your hunt. It will help you become a better hunter and a better person.

Brian

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

Dan-

Like you, Jonathan, and Brian, I too am a hunter. I was not raised a hunter, but instead chose to pursue the activity of hunting pheasants in my late teens. I’m a decent instinct shot at trap, but was rather unsuccessful in my pursuits of fowl, mostly because of lack of habitat, and so the activity of hunting was dismissed.

Fast-forward 10 years: It came to me one day while hiking; I had come across an animal that was apparently the unfortunate prey of a larger predator, I realized that although I am part of the food chain, I am rather detached out of convenience. I spoke to a friend of mine about it who like me is an analytical-type, and after some discussion, we both agreed that it would be good to go hunt, kill, and eat an animal; deer is what we would pursue.

The first year that we tried it, we went into the woods with guns and purpose. Neither of us had hunted game before, and neither of us knew anyone who ever had (we were both from urban areas, he in the east, and myself in the west). We had read up about how to hunt, what to do, how to track, and how/where to shoot to make it a clean kill. We had both spent many hours practicing, and had a god tight spread from a respectable distance.

We went out almost daily, and neither one of took a shot at any animals. He said that he hadn’t seen any, and I said the same. However, both of us were lying, and the following summer we each realized that both had had animals lined up in our crosshairs, yet neither of us took the shot.

So what gives? We had the opportunity, why not take the shot? For me, it came down to my tools. For some reason I just couldn’t bring myself to shoot a bullet at some deer wandering around minding its own business and eating some roughage. It was the gun, I didn’t feel right about it, it was like it was somehow an unfair advantage.

I decided that a bow would be a better tool to level the playing field, since the arrow is a much closer range tool that requires a much greater deal of predatory skill. In other words, the deer had a better chance.

A deer was eventually taken, and it was a very powerful moment for me. I was deeply moved in a way that was inexplicable. I had taken the life of an animal with the intention of using its flesh to nourish my life. I became connected to the animal in a much more profound way than I had anticipated. I thanked the animal for its life, and very little of its body was discarded, and my partner Yvonne even tanned the hide.

This was an experiment for me. I had felt that in the past I was disconnected to what I put into my body. When I went to the grocer, I would buy pork, steaks, chicken, … whatever, but it was simply a ‘meat product’.

I like to spend time in nature, and I very much like to be a part of, and interact with nature. I’m not fond of killing animals, and I have no plans to hunt again in the near future. I will say though that there is now a meaning to the food that I ingest that had never existed in the past, and I am very happy that this feeling exists within myself.

We are humans, and part of being humans is the feelings that we experience. I truly believe that each person out there should experience what it is like to take the life of an animal, and then consume it. Without doing this, one cannot fully understand what it means to be a predator, nor could one appreciate that little styrofoam and saran-wrapped package in the butchers isle of their local grocer.

Dan, killing an animal can produce a pretty lousy feeling in one’s self, and there is no reason whatsoever that you should be ashamed of feeling that way- you are taking the innocent life of another being. Brain raises a good point; that you may consider raising the difficulty level of the hunt. This worked for me through bow hunting, and it may work out for you as well. Either way, I do believe that killing an animal in any way has an effect on one’s emotions, and each of us will experience that in a different way.

:camping:

 

[boblynch]

Dan,

I could not agree more with Jonathan and Brian.

Dan, I've been where you are now. Personally I use the following logic. In most parts of the US the deer population is at all time highs. We've killed off the other predators. As stewards of the land it's up to us to ethically manage the wildlife that's left. We can let folks “hunt” with vehicle bumpers, or go into the woods and hunt food ethically. Personally I advocate the later. Hope this helps…

Bob

 

[snipecatcher]

hey

Wow, I agree with you guys. After writing my post, I thought about it, and should have added in: anyone who does get joy out of killing animals is no hunter. That's not what I meant, but I think you guys figured that out. It's just that it almost bothers me now. I have started hunting with a bow, have been doing so off an on for the last couple of years. As for the Vietnam vet thing, my mentor and the person who taught me all of my ethics and hunting skills was in that particular war: my uncle. He always took a moment of silence over an animal he had taken. He had literally killed thousands of animals in his life, and I was with him the day he shot his last deer. He's still around, but he pretty much lives a solitary life now, much like that of a monk. He just didn't get any thrill out of it anymore, and enjoyed watching the animals more than anything. James, you are lucky to have found someone who shared the same feelings. Most of my friends have the whole blood lust thing going on, and the hunt isn't complete unless they have killed something. I just don't get it. My joy comes from stalking through the woods to the smell of cedar, sitting around the campfire and talking about what I've seen. I'm sure they'll catch up someday, but it may be a while. Thanks guys for sharing your outlook on things, it is very much appreciated.
-Dan

 

[boblynch]

Most of my friends have the whole blood lust thing going on, and the hunt isn't complete unless they have killed something. I just don't get it. My joy comes from stalking through the woods to the smell of cedar, sitting around the campfire and talking about what I've seen. I'm sure they'll catch up someday, but it may be a while.

Sounds like you need new hunting buddies, or go solo until they see the light. My best ever hunting day was spent freezing my butt off with my grandpa and brother in a blizzard. We didn't see much. Spent the day hiking in the snow to stay warm, talking about wildlife, hunting, survival, and life. Afterwards we sat by the woodstove thawing out while my grandmother cooked. My dad and uncle each got a deer. I got a lifetime memory.

Sounds like you've already learned to enjoy the little things. Don't be too hard on yourself.

 

[Connie]

I wholesale Native American products and many of the tribes still teach their children the traditional ways of giving thanks to the spirit of the animal for the tremendous gift that they have received (a sort of memorial service for the animal). The meat is eaten, the hide is tanned, sinew is used for stringing bone beads and drums, bones and antlers are carved into works of beauty.

It sounds to me like you have found a connection that your "buddies" will never have. You respect the profoundness and beauty of life and sacrifice. What's more is that you have found it on your own, no one had to tell you.

 

[VikingVince]

I have a considerably different point of view from the ones expressed here. I'm not intending to provoke or inflame; it is simply a point of view that deserves a voice in a balanced forum...but I know it will be challenging to hunters, if not totally discounted or considered "bull." I have no intention of engaging in flaming arguments but will respond respectfully if called for. Let me start with the bottom line: I think the hunting and killing of wild animals is an act that reflects the unenlightened parts of our consciousness. I am not saying that I disrespect hunters. Hunting is only one small part of the "total man." I wouldn't disrespect a man who hunts anymore than I would disrespect a man that smokes, for example. I have hunted (and smoked...still do sometimes) in my earlier years and I own multiple types of firearms. (FWIW, just thought I'd mention that)

But there's a much larger picture here of contrasting, if not conflicting dynamics...on one side, the hunter and why men hunt and, on the other side, the individual conscience of a man and the always evolving, collective consciousness of mankind. Why do men hunt? Well, obviously, hunting is as old as Man himself. Early Man hunted to survive. And therein lies the main dynamic of why some men still hunt today. The "Hunter" is still one of the dominant archetypes in the human male psyche. (in case anyone is unfamiliar with "archetype"...in psychoanalytic theory: a primitive male image inherited from the earliest human ancestors and supposed to be present in the current collective unconscious. Other male archetypes are Warrior, Protector, Conqueror, Father, Explorer, etc) Archetypes and the actions they produce evolve as time passes. For example, the enslavement of the defeated by the Warrior/Conqueror has evolved from being viewed as a justifiable, holy right to
wrong and immoral. How will the Hunter archetype evolve? Fast forward a century or more, I think the hunting and killing of wild animals will ultimately be viewed as unenlightened, primarily because it is usually not a humane act.

This raises the question of whether killing wild animals is humane. Well, you have to define humane. Oxford Dictionary: 1. compassionate or benevolent, inflicting the minimum of pain. 2. intended to have a civilizing effect. Hunters profess the "clean kill" implying that this is humane. I think it is not. Does the wild animal die instantly? From what I've personally seen, it usually does not. That is not a minimum of pain. Does the animal experience pain and suffering? If the animal takes even two steps (or many yards) after being hit with the bullet or if it writhes and struggles for even several seconds to get back up after going down, it is experiencing significant pain and suffering. That will never fit into my definition of humane nor will it ever justify putting meat on the table, cost effective of not. I'm also aware that, in the news recently, inhumane practices have occurred in slaughter houses as well. But, on balance, IMO the professional slaughter houses accomplish the minimum of pain more than the hunter.

The argument that killing wild animals for food is a legitimate part of the chain of life has a few weaknesses in it. First of all, the imbalance in nature created by man resulting in overabundance of some species (deer and elk in some states) necessitating reducing these herds by hunting is not part of a legitimate or natural chain of life. Secondly, we don't need to hunt for food like our ancestors. Wild meat is often more expensive than store-bought meat. I suppose if a man has plentiful game in his "backyard" he can legitimately claim that feeding is family by hunting is more cost effective. But that's more the exception than the rule. Many men spend thousands of dollars (like $5-$10K) for guided hunting trips to Canada. Costs of hunting in this country include expensive permit fees, guides, cost of firearms, ATV's, food and lodging, transportation, butchering, plus the cost of environmental damage by some hunters. Landowners in NM sell their hunting permits for $3500-$5000 per permit! Hunters who don't get permits in the state lottery will opt for this route.

There are other factors in play as well. Hunting has become politicized and considerable bureaucracy created around it. Some justify hunting on the grounds that permit fees raise considerable revenue for conservation and environmental efforts. Do states want to give up that revenue? Of course not. Plus they would have to find other means of reducing the overabundant game species. It's easier and more profitable to let the hunters do it. I would call that moral relativism. (robbing Peter to pay Paul?)

Native American philosophy is often used, expediently I think, by hunters as a justification. (see Connie post above) But how can a hunter invoke this admirable philosophy when the the majority don't live the rest of their life within this spiritual context, much less not utilizing all parts of the deer?

The remorse over killing expressed by the hunters above is commendable. So, Dan, I applaud you revealing your conflicts and emotions surrounding killing of wild animals. I would say that your higher Self/Consciousness is battling with your Hunter archetype. (I know you hunters will love that one!) I view it as your higher Self questioning whether killing wild animals for food is justified and if it's really for you. It's always good to question and evaluate how one's thoughts and actions may or may not be contributing to the planet. I say keep thinking and exploring...honor your higher Self and your reactions as much as your Hunter.

 

[MaddBaggins]

I see the beauty of the animal and spend a few minutes contemplating it before I clean it and pack it out. Even birds. Then I savor and enjoy the wonderful, unprocessed, undrugged, untortured meat that I have (usually) hiked many miles to gather and carry back to my truck.
For me it's about the hunt, not about pulling the trigger. And I also eat whatever I kill.

 

[WhereTheHellIsJames?]

VikingVance-

Although you and I do not see eye to eye on the matter, I have a great deal of respect for your thoughtful and intriguing post. I believe that there are flaws to the theories presented and that no ‘one post’ could possibly cover the depth of the topic, but overall, it is very insightful, and presented in a very thought provoking and respectful manner. We are all here on this earth learning different lessons, and through communication and experiences we learn. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Mike S]

I think Jonathan articulated my feelings very well, so I cannot add anything.

To those who feel that hunting is somehow 'wrong', I say this:

By the fact of our existence as humans, we act. Is it wrong for a leopard or wolf to kill? Are we not as much a part of the world as any other species? It is easy to begin to confuse human social values with the realities of natural law. To isolate our selves from this fundamental involvement in the environment - to fail to actually participate - we endanger the world we live in. We see the result all around us.

No one has more understanding of the natural world than the person who immerses themselves in it by hunting. It is who we used to be - and who we still are.

M

 

[762X39]

I grew up in a family that did not hunt (but we did eat!) and always read stories about hunting and thought that one day....
I was 30 when I started to hunt. It was about me providing for my self and making the best use of the animal I had just killed. I am a predator so I have no problem pulling the trigger but I am also very unlike alot of predators (like my cats that will tease a mouse before killing it).I like venison, grouse,rabbit and moose so they are my prey of choice. I know that when I pull the trigger I will stop a beating heart. I am greatful for my bounty and make as full a use of it as I can. I have NEVER trophy hunted because I do not understand the premise, any antlers have been given to my wife who cuts them up and drills them to make buttons (she also spins wool and can weave cloth but I digress). All the hides have been tanned for leather except one which was left hair on for a blanket.I am not interested in justifying my hunting, it is just something I always wanted to be able to do. It may be from the most base instictual part of my brain that it comes from and that is ok for I am above all an animal, a predator, a human and a hunter.

 

[7wt]

I quit deer hunting about twenty years ago but not because my "higher self" suggested that I do so. I stopped because the way I was taught was little more than target shooting and I failed to see the point of taking a life so effortlessly. If I am to take a life, say a deer then I should imerse myself in it's habitat. Be the deer if you will. Fair chase and all that jazz.

The only thing I hunt now is birds, mostly grouse and woodcock. I don't do it for food although I eat the tasty treats from the sky. I do it for the sport and fellowship of those I hunt with and to watch dogs do what they were bred to do. The best part of bird hunting is the dogs and their total enjoyment of being what they are (there is a lesson there somewhere). I think the best philosophers in life are pointing dogs. They do what they do and they don't apologize for it. They simply "are". I also find a great deal of pleasure in tying flies from the feathers of the birds I harvested. What a kick it is to catch a wild brookie on a fly tied with a grouse feather you shot with friends.