Barn Door for JK factory hardtops
- Thread starter jscherb
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jscherb
Expedition Leader
ratled
Adventurer
Is there a subsection for camel trailers?
It says your favorite rig & trailer..... who is to say the camel isn't your favorite rig while there!
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Camels and camel trailers really aren't my favorites - my favorite Mahindra models are the Marshal/Commander/Maxx/Savari range. They're all mostly the same; the Marshal and the Commander are 105.5" wheelbase models, the Marshal a 4-door and the Commander 2- or 4-door. The Maxx is the same wheelbase but with a roughly 10" longer body behind the rear wheels, and the Savari is a 114" wheelbase model that's about 32" longer in the body than the Marshal/Commander.
This beat up example is a Maxx:
The wheelbase (105.5") is pretty close to the LJ (104.5"); I've long had a dream of importing a Maxx body and dropping it on an LJ frame, it would make a great overlander with it's extra room inside and rear barn door. One other difference between the Marshal/Commander and the Maxx/Savari is the height of the roof and the width of the body. This photo shows both - the body is about 4" wider and the roof is about 5" higher, check the distance between the tail light and the barn door opening on both. Great extra space for an overlander.
And speaking of extra space, this is the Savari, you can see how much longer it is behind the rear axle. With the extra width, height and length it could make a great overland camper.
For years I've thought about buying one of these in India, shipping just the body to the US, and putting it on a modern Wrangler frame. Maybe some day I'll do that.
This beat up example is a Maxx:
The wheelbase (105.5") is pretty close to the LJ (104.5"); I've long had a dream of importing a Maxx body and dropping it on an LJ frame, it would make a great overlander with it's extra room inside and rear barn door. One other difference between the Marshal/Commander and the Maxx/Savari is the height of the roof and the width of the body. This photo shows both - the body is about 4" wider and the roof is about 5" higher, check the distance between the tail light and the barn door opening on both. Great extra space for an overlander.
And speaking of extra space, this is the Savari, you can see how much longer it is behind the rear axle. With the extra width, height and length it could make a great overland camper.
For years I've thought about buying one of these in India, shipping just the body to the US, and putting it on a modern Wrangler frame. Maybe some day I'll do that.
rubicon91
Explorer
Camels and camel trailers really aren't my favorites - my favorite Mahindra models are the Marshal/Commander/Maxx/Savari range. They're all mostly the same; the Marshal and the Commander are 105.5" wheelbase models, the Marshal a 4-door and the Commander 2- or 4-door. The Maxx is the same wheelbase but with a roughly 10" longer body behind the rear wheels, and the Savari is a 114" wheelbase model that's about 32" longer in the body than the Marshal/Commander.
This beat up example is a Maxx:
The wheelbase (105.5") is pretty close to the LJ (104.5"); I've long had a dream of importing a Maxx body and dropping it on an LJ frame, it would make a great overlander with it's extra room inside and rear barn door. One other difference between the Marshal/Commander and the Maxx/Savari is the height of the roof and the width of the body. This photo shows both - the body is about 4" wider and the roof is about 5" higher, check the distance between the tail light and the barn door opening on both. Great extra space for an overlander.
And speaking of extra space, this is the Savari, you can see how much longer it is behind the rear axle. With the extra width, height and length it could make a great overland camper.
For years I've thought about buying one of these in India, shipping just the body to the US, and putting it on a modern Wrangler frame. Maybe some day I'll do that.
Oh man Jeff that is awesome. I think you should import one and then drive it down to FL so I can see it
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Oh man Jeff that is awesome. I think you should import one and then drive it down to FL so I can see it
I've liked the design of these Mahindras ever since I worked in India in the early 2000's, and have long had a dream to bring one back and make it US-legal and turn it into a great overlander. I could bring a 25-year old one from a desert state like Rajasthan to satisfy the 25-year rule for importing vehicles, there wouldn't be any rust on a desert vehicle to speak of, or I could do later model and import just the body to get around US import restrictions. I think shipping a container from India to NY is about $1800, so really not too bad. Don't have garage space for another Jeep just now, have to solve that problem...
rubicon91
Explorer
Drive down here next time you come and fly back I will gladly store one of your Jeeps for you! Problem solved
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Here's something I always found curious about the Mahindras derived from the CJ-5/7 - the Mahindra body is the same width as the US models (about 59"), but the hood is narrower at the back and wider at the front than the US models. As the back, the cowl has a step in it that's about 1 1/4" wide, reducing the width of the back of the hood to roughly 56.5". I'm using the word "step" figuratively, I don't believe it's meant for a person to step on.
In the front the headlights don't intersect the outer grille slats like on the US models, and the grille is about 1" wider than the CJ grille (roughly 41" vs the CJ's roughly 39"). Also notice something else - the windshield is hinged to fold down just like a US Jeep, but there are no bumpers on the hood to rest it on and no footman loop to tie it down. And one other hood detail that's different - the raised section in the center of the hood is wider than on the US models.
I have no explanation or theory for why the hood is narrower in the back or why they added the step in the cowl, but being a detail-oriented designer I find these differences interesting.
The Maxx I posted about the other day, which is wider, has the same hood and grille but a wider step in the side of the cowl, about 3 1/2". The Maxx also comes with a strange looking fiberglass or plastic grille cover, but you can see the original grille is still under there and if the cover is removed it looks like the non-Maxx models.
Also a correction to something I posted the other day - I said the Maxx and the Savari were both wider than the Marshal/Commander, but that's not correct - only the Maxx is wider. The very long Savari is the same width as the short Marshal/Commander. I'll blame the 10 1/2 hour time zone difference from home for my mistyping.
If people don't want me to continue posting Indian jeep photos let me know and if it become a consensus I'll stop.
In the front the headlights don't intersect the outer grille slats like on the US models, and the grille is about 1" wider than the CJ grille (roughly 41" vs the CJ's roughly 39"). Also notice something else - the windshield is hinged to fold down just like a US Jeep, but there are no bumpers on the hood to rest it on and no footman loop to tie it down. And one other hood detail that's different - the raised section in the center of the hood is wider than on the US models.
I have no explanation or theory for why the hood is narrower in the back or why they added the step in the cowl, but being a detail-oriented designer I find these differences interesting.
The Maxx I posted about the other day, which is wider, has the same hood and grille but a wider step in the side of the cowl, about 3 1/2". The Maxx also comes with a strange looking fiberglass or plastic grille cover, but you can see the original grille is still under there and if the cover is removed it looks like the non-Maxx models.
Also a correction to something I posted the other day - I said the Maxx and the Savari were both wider than the Marshal/Commander, but that's not correct - only the Maxx is wider. The very long Savari is the same width as the short Marshal/Commander. I'll blame the 10 1/2 hour time zone difference from home for my mistyping.
If people don't want me to continue posting Indian jeep photos let me know and if it become a consensus I'll stop.
rubicon91
Explorer
Here's something I always found curious about the Mahindras derived from the CJ-5/7 - the Mahindra body is the same width as the US models (about 59"), but the hood is narrower at the back and wider at the front than the US models. As the back, the cowl has a step in it that's about 1 1/4" wide, reducing the width of the back of the hood to roughly 56.5". I'm using the word "step" figuratively, I don't believe it's meant for a person to step on.
In the front the headlights don't intersect the outer grille slats like on the US models, and the grille is about 1" wider than the CJ grille (roughly 41" vs the CJ's roughly 39"). Also notice something else - the windshield is hinged to fold down just like a US Jeep, but there are no bumpers on the hood to rest it on and no footman loop to tie it down. And one other hood detail that's different - the raised section in the center of the hood is wider than on the US models.
I have no explanation or theory for why the hood is narrower in the back or why they added the step in the cowl, but being a detail-oriented designer I find these differences interesting.
The Maxx I posted about the other day, which is wider, has the same hood and grille but a wider step in the side of the cowl, about 3 1/2". The Maxx also comes with a strange looking fiberglass or plastic grille cover, but you can see the original grille is still under there and if the cover is removed it looks like the non-Maxx models.
Also a correction to something I posted the other day - I said the Maxx and the Savari were both wider than the Marshal/Commander, but that's not correct - only the Maxx is wider. The very long Savari is the same width as the short Marshal/Commander. I'll blame the 10 1/2 hour time zone difference from home for my mistyping.
If people don't want me to continue posting Indian jeep photos let me know and if it become a consensus I'll stop.
Definitely keep posting and narrating Jeff!! I find these absolutely fascinating and for us that will probably never make it to India it gives a nice glimpse to what they look like and the differences. Great Job as always Jeff and enjoy your rest of the time there!!!!
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Ever since I designed the slider window retrofit kit for JK half door uppers I've been thinking about the state of the JK half door market. The factory half doors are really excellent - they seal well against the elements, they're good looking and they function well. But they're very expensive. Most of the half doors available in the aftermarket don't do one or more of those things - lots of them are just gates to keep you from falling out and have no pretense of weatherproofing so at least where I live they couldn't be used for daily driving. Few of them offer uppers and the uppers of those that do are not very good - weather sealing is poor at best. As far as I know there isn't an aftermarket solution that can be used for daily driving in places like the northeast, so I've always had in the back of my mind that a proper set of half doors could and should be made in fiberglass.
If I did fiberglass half doors I'd want to do something with the design that looks rigged but also stylish, and seeing all the Mahindra doors on this trip has made me think about my half door ideas again. This photo shows Mahindra doors, they're very rugged looking with raised panels and horizontal reinforcements - I think half doors designed with similar details would look great on the JK.
Over the past few days I did these concept drawings. These would be full thickness fiberglass doors that accept the factory weatherseals so they would be as weatherproof as the factory doors. I've used paddle latches in them because they're functional, affordable and have a rugged look, but unlike many aftermarket doors I've mounted them both at the same height. I've also drawn the concept with my HD Door Hinges (being released now) for use with the door hinge steps and some of the other accessories for the hinges that I've prototyped. The outer shell of the doors have raised panels and reinforcements like the Mahindra doors, which are also somewhat reminiscent of some of the doors found on military HUMVEEs.
Back when I was doing the half door slider windows I did a prototype fiberglass rear half door upper as a proof of concept, so that would be one option for uppers if I do these doors; other options would be to support the factory uppers or to support the Bestop uppers (or all of the above).
I've got a bunch of other projects going on right now plus more travel coming up so there's no way I could start a project like this until later in the year but let me know what you think of the idea so I can incorporate your input into the design process.
If I did fiberglass half doors I'd want to do something with the design that looks rigged but also stylish, and seeing all the Mahindra doors on this trip has made me think about my half door ideas again. This photo shows Mahindra doors, they're very rugged looking with raised panels and horizontal reinforcements - I think half doors designed with similar details would look great on the JK.
Over the past few days I did these concept drawings. These would be full thickness fiberglass doors that accept the factory weatherseals so they would be as weatherproof as the factory doors. I've used paddle latches in them because they're functional, affordable and have a rugged look, but unlike many aftermarket doors I've mounted them both at the same height. I've also drawn the concept with my HD Door Hinges (being released now) for use with the door hinge steps and some of the other accessories for the hinges that I've prototyped. The outer shell of the doors have raised panels and reinforcements like the Mahindra doors, which are also somewhat reminiscent of some of the doors found on military HUMVEEs.
Back when I was doing the half door slider windows I did a prototype fiberglass rear half door upper as a proof of concept, so that would be one option for uppers if I do these doors; other options would be to support the factory uppers or to support the Bestop uppers (or all of the above).
I've got a bunch of other projects going on right now plus more travel coming up so there's no way I could start a project like this until later in the year but let me know what you think of the idea so I can incorporate your input into the design process.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Here are the 3 lengths of Mahindra enclosed jeeps - the Marshal at the top, the Maxx in the middle (which is also wider) and the Savari at the bottom (longer wheelbase but not wider). All have barn doors and slider rear side windows. The Savari in this image doesn't have a roof rack but most I've seen do have a rack with a ladder in the back. There is also a model called the Commander, it's the same body and length as the Marshal but is available in a 2-door version as well as a 4-door. I've got some Commander brochures in my collection if there's interest I could post scans of them.
The decal on the side of the Savari says "DI Turbo". Don't know anything about the specs except that but the ones I've seen that appear to be more recent models all have the turbo.
The Savari also comes in a soft top version, I've got a few photos of those, and a removable fiberglass hardtop version. I've only seen one of the fiberglass hardtop ones and wasn't in a position to take a photo when it drove by.
If I were to import one and convert it to a US drivetrain I'd want to do a Savari even though that means I'd have to lengthen an LJ frame about 10.5 inches for the conversion. No problem with that though, I lengthened an LJ frame about 24" when building my Retro Wrangler pickup and I think I've even got enough frame tubing remaining on hand from that project to do it.
The decal on the side of the Savari says "DI Turbo". Don't know anything about the specs except that but the ones I've seen that appear to be more recent models all have the turbo.
The Savari also comes in a soft top version, I've got a few photos of those, and a removable fiberglass hardtop version. I've only seen one of the fiberglass hardtop ones and wasn't in a position to take a photo when it drove by.
If I were to import one and convert it to a US drivetrain I'd want to do a Savari even though that means I'd have to lengthen an LJ frame about 10.5 inches for the conversion. No problem with that though, I lengthened an LJ frame about 24" when building my Retro Wrangler pickup and I think I've even got enough frame tubing remaining on hand from that project to do it.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
More about the half door design project... eight different molds would be required for four doors - four outer skins and four inner shells. My plan would be to make the outer skin molds first because there are ways the outer skins could be used without the inner shells - the fiberglass outer skins could be used to skin many different aftermarket tube/trail doors, or simple tube frames could be made to hang them on. I'd have to find someone with good candidate trail/tube doors to prototype that with because I have no plans to own trail/tube doors myself.
Jurfie
Adventurer
Yes please! I've been wanting half-doors, but as you said: expensive. None of the aftermarket versions I've seen are suitable, IMHO. Something simple that seals well, with an inner panel that doesn't look too raw would be a welcome design. An armrest would be nice, for when the uppers are installed.