More proof that Jeep is the leader in 4x4 overland vehicles
- Thread starter marktutone
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marktutone
Adventurer
The real deal
My point exactly. The Land Cruiser is 75000 and it is weak as hell. I can spend 49000 and get a tricked out AEV Jeep. The question is why would anyone spend 75000 for a vehicle that is living on its legacy? Jeep has proven they are listening to their customers and staying true to 4x4 enthusiast. Also your comparison is the Toyota is the Chevy and the Ferrari is the Jeep. Toyota copied Jeep after WWII. Jeep is the real original deal.
My point exactly. The Land Cruiser is 75000 and it is weak as hell. I can spend 49000 and get a tricked out AEV Jeep. The question is why would anyone spend 75000 for a vehicle that is living on its legacy? Jeep has proven they are listening to their customers and staying true to 4x4 enthusiast. Also your comparison is the Toyota is the Chevy and the Ferrari is the Jeep. Toyota copied Jeep after WWII. Jeep is the real original deal.
Nothing against Jeeps but you're comparing sales volume of a $75, 000 vehicle against one half the price. If the LC sold for the price of a jeep it would look quite different. Chevy Cruise sales outnumber Ferrari sales too but that says nothing about quality, value, or which one most people would rather have.
I think it's not the pure numbers he's trying to show, but the significant and consistent drop in sales numbers.
If you look at the sales INCREASE of Ferrari and even Porsche in recent years, the percentage if growth actually dwarfs many compact cars...
98OzarksRunner
Adventurer
I'm thinking maybe you missed the point, but oh well.
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
In the US. The US is not the epicenter for overlanding. And for that matter, the 200 Series is far from a 'soccer mom vehicle', it's very proven in the wilds and will become a great build platform as they become more affordable down the line. We are already seeing customers ditch 100's in favor of 200's(570's) and that is a trend that will only increase as time goes on. I'll own a 200 one day, I'd prefer a factory twin-turbo VDJ200 but I'll settle for the 5.7 when the price is right
In the US... enough said. We get fully loaded 200's, folks spending that kind of $$$ buy the LX570 instead, look at the sales numbers there. In the US 99.999999% of car buyers are not overlanders and frankly would laugh if you tried to explain to them what 'car camping with outfits' was to so many. Outside the US they offer dozens of Land Cruiser platforms with diesel motors and solid axles, 71, 76, 78, 79, HZJ, GRJ, VDJ... you the point. The Hilux is no slouch in numbers either, very popular in South America & Aus. Don't get me wrong, the JK is a great vehicle and many have shown they are plenty capable of traveling around the world, however to say that the Jeep is the 'leader' in 4x4 overland... just simply isn't the case based on my experience and the sheer numbers along. In places like Australia and Africa, the Land Cruiser (and to a lesser degree Land Rover) out rank the Jeep populations 100 to 1, perhaps more. With the rise of the JK in those markets (particularly Aus) that ratio is surely shrinking but Jeep would need 20 years of strong sales to catch up with the vast numbers of Land Cruisers roaming those environs.
Run what you like and what works for you, it doesn't need to be #1 to fit your needs.
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marktutone
Adventurer
World wide sales numbers tell a story also. After market parts start ups on foreign shores also tell a story. The decline of all Toyota 4x4 sales. Customer enthusiasm for a product also tell a story. Jeep was king at SEMA also. Do a little digging in your cat litter and you will see there is a new king of the hill.
marktutone
Adventurer
I hear you. Toyota needs to look at the U.S. market and offer the 70 series. It seems they have ignored the 4x4/overlander in the U.S. My hope is that Jeep will continue to listen to it's users and develop even greater vehicles. My deal is that overlanders need to put their dollars into a company that is going to listen to them or our lifestyle will be unattainable for the working stiffs of the world.
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
Tacoma?
FJ Cruiser (albeit recently discontinued)
4Runner?
While I'd love to see a new 70 Series here in the US, it isn't happening. Plain and simply, never will. If your planning a global expedition, that shouldn't be a hurdle. The Tacoma, FJC and 4Runner are fantastic overland platforms for many users, particularly those traveling here in North America. I can buy the argument of parts availability on a global scale but we are painting with too wide of a brush. Have to have a 70 Series? Buy a US legal model, 25+ year old Land Cruisers are good enough for the remotes of Australia, surely they are good enough for the remotes of the US?
The cat analogy about sums up my thoughts on this. Comparing US spec new car sales to the overland market is about like cat videos
marktutone
Adventurer
This post just made me realize something. I am not a true overlander. I travel then camp. I paid 8000 for my Jeep and I converted a popup tent trailer into an off road trailer. All the upgrades on my jeep I bought off of Craigslist. I redesigned my trailer with metal that I bought from scrap. I like my Land Cruiser but I love my Jeep.
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UK4X4
Expedition Leader
"Jeep was king at SEMA also"
an American auto parts show showing American car parts, how amazing is that ............duh
Globally jeeps do not hit the mark in comparison to land cruisers or even Nissan Patrols.
They are either simply not available, available only in limited numbers, little support - spares.
Toyota market and sell to their customer base requirements by country and you have been deemed to want only luxury cars, so that's what their shipping.
Even here in the wilds of Scotland....I rarely see a jeep , obviously we are a little biased to LR in the UK
..here at work in the parking we have 1 RR- 2off RRsports, 3 off Disco's and 4 off freelanders..........does that mean we are globally the best 4x4xfar.......no
it just means they are popular based on price, servicing, spare parts and local support
Like jeep in the US
Maybe you aught to get out more and stop watching the world through American TV
an American auto parts show showing American car parts, how amazing is that ............duh
Globally jeeps do not hit the mark in comparison to land cruisers or even Nissan Patrols.
They are either simply not available, available only in limited numbers, little support - spares.
Toyota market and sell to their customer base requirements by country and you have been deemed to want only luxury cars, so that's what their shipping.
Even here in the wilds of Scotland....I rarely see a jeep , obviously we are a little biased to LR in the UK
..here at work in the parking we have 1 RR- 2off RRsports, 3 off Disco's and 4 off freelanders..........does that mean we are globally the best 4x4xfar.......no
it just means they are popular based on price, servicing, spare parts and local support
Like jeep in the US
Maybe you aught to get out more and stop watching the world through American TV
Capt Jon
Observer
I love my Jeep. I have a 2012 JKUR that gets at least 80 miles a week off road. It has about 35,000 miles on it, and is by far the most reliable vehicle I have ever had from Jeep. They are better now than they ever were.
I live in Dubai, and the pentastar Jeeps are the king of the offroad scene. But its all about power-to-weight ratio and purely 1-2 day trips. The Nissan's are becoming problematic. I see more breakdowns from X-Terras and patrols than any other brand in the desert. That doesn't really get Land Rover off the hook though, because in the last 12 months, I've only seen 1 Landy out there. Must be 50,000 of them rolling around Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but they don't get out much.
FJ Cruisers, Prados, Land Cruisers (100 series, 80 series, 70 series), Fortuners, and the ever present Hilux are out in force. They always keep up and they never break down. If I was going to be out of cell phone coverage for days at a time, it would be in a Hilux. I love my Jeep, but the quality comparison between a Jeep and a Hilux is all in Toyota's favor. I would feel much more comfortable on an extended remote expedition in a bone stock, base model, Hilux (2014 drives out in Dubai from $17,500 about $10,000 less than a JK sport) than anything from AEV.
I live in Dubai, and the pentastar Jeeps are the king of the offroad scene. But its all about power-to-weight ratio and purely 1-2 day trips. The Nissan's are becoming problematic. I see more breakdowns from X-Terras and patrols than any other brand in the desert. That doesn't really get Land Rover off the hook though, because in the last 12 months, I've only seen 1 Landy out there. Must be 50,000 of them rolling around Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but they don't get out much.
FJ Cruisers, Prados, Land Cruisers (100 series, 80 series, 70 series), Fortuners, and the ever present Hilux are out in force. They always keep up and they never break down. If I was going to be out of cell phone coverage for days at a time, it would be in a Hilux. I love my Jeep, but the quality comparison between a Jeep and a Hilux is all in Toyota's favor. I would feel much more comfortable on an extended remote expedition in a bone stock, base model, Hilux (2014 drives out in Dubai from $17,500 about $10,000 less than a JK sport) than anything from AEV.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
It's sad the center of your off road world is the US. They didn't stop importing the defender here because it was out dates. They stopped importing it because our Gov wanted them to put airbags in it and LR told them to pound sand. Once again just because Toyota only imports super luxo cruisers here doesn't mean jeep is more popular in the rest of the world. Being able to "build" a jeep for less money than a 200 series costs doesn't prove anything. With the right amount of money a geo metro could be built into a bad *** offroad vehicle. Does that prove how amazing geos are? No. Take your jeep to Africa or any other third world country and try to order parts from chryco and see how much support they give you. Jeeps are a laughable joke when it comes to reliability and support ability. Please don't try to say that your jeep has been reliable. Bending reliable driving down a paved road and wheeled every once In a while is not the same as loving it's whole life off road and still running around reliably. Last point I have. Jeeps is the last company to offer lockers. Toyota and Mercedes has offered lockers for 20 to 30 years before jeep did.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788
There is no question that Fiat/Chrysler have had success growing the Jeep brand internationally. Jeep sales are up everywhere, particularly in Europe and China. That by itself is no justification for the "Jeep rulez, everyone else droolz" sort of fanboy nonsense.
Check the vehicles favored by virtually every NGO worldwide -- Land Cruiser, Patrol and, to a lesser degree, Defender. And while Ford sells more F150s than Toyota does HiLux pickups each year, most of those sales are in USA. The HiLux leads utility vehicle sales in most of the 160 international markets Toyota participates in.
Check the vehicles favored by virtually every NGO worldwide -- Land Cruiser, Patrol and, to a lesser degree, Defender. And while Ford sells more F150s than Toyota does HiLux pickups each year, most of those sales are in USA. The HiLux leads utility vehicle sales in most of the 160 international markets Toyota participates in.
pugslyyy
Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
Just a little bit of confirmation bias going on here, methinks.
I'll take the Bowler.