Discovery 4 / LR4 Auxiliary Long Range Tank

[perkj]

Will let you know once I am due for the SMOG. I will try doing it at a local shop. I never saw them looking at anything under the car and thus it would be the first. Let's see but even if I have an issue, it takes one hour to disconnect the whole system I think you are overestimating the zealousness of SMOG folks or maybe you had a bad experience... Still for what I am trying to achieve (ability of long off-road travel without worrying about fuel) it is worth it.

I 100% agree its worth it and worth the additional hour-off and hour back-on to do it. Just pointing out you wouldn't want to be flagged in the system so best to invest the time to not even have it come into question. With the investment these smog folks need to make in the dynos, etc, most smog guys aren't willing to put their lic and livelihood on the line anymore....10 years ago, I'd have agreed with you because all you needed was a 12 pack in hand and your car would pass smog.

 

[mcieplinski]

I 100% agree its worth it and worth the additional hour-off and hour back-on to do it. Just pointing out you wouldn't want to be flagged in the system so best to invest the time to not even have it come into question. With the investment these smog folks need to make in the dynos, etc, most smog guys aren't willing to put their lic and livelihood on the line anymore....10 years ago, I'd have agreed with you because all you needed was a 12 pack in hand and your car would pass smog.

Thank you! The whole set up is meant to be taken out in 1hr. SMOG folks would have to really dig in to see the modifications... It all looks as the standard LR fuel set up (all that needs to be done is to remove the actual aux tank as it is hard to explain this one...).

 

[Dmarchand]

Did you need to drop the stock tank to access the lines or were you able to access everything from inside the wheel well/frame rail to splice in the evap return and feed?

 

[mcieplinski]

We did not have to touch the stock tank at all. All access points are in the wheel well and from underneath. All that was required is to cut the existing lines and put the T or Y crossings. Then we had to run electrics all the way from the front/dash to the back of the car.

 

[Jwestpro]

well good grief! Guess I'm lucky to not be in CA. I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to remove the tank and connections every year just for kicks. Good for you if it's REALLY a 1 hr deal but I'd like to watch and time you

 

[mcieplinski]

well good grief! Guess I'm lucky to not be in CA. I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to remove the tank and connections every year just for kicks. Good for you if it's REALLY a 1 hr deal but I'd like to watch and time you

Yep it is a pain with SMOG in Cali but otherwise would not trade it for any other state it really does take less than 10 min to drop the tank. Then the rest is for disconnecting and capping pipes. I will not be removing all extra connections but will simply cap them and move out of sight. The good thing about the location of all of the extra goodies that they are located in the place accessible only by removing the inner wheel liner. For once I am grateful for whacky LR engineering

Two week update - system works perfectly. No fault codes and I am able to drive with the the aux tank fully empty. I also timed and it takes 6 min to transfer 20 gallons from aux to main tank. I guess the extra fuel pump made the difference.

 

[zelatore]

Looking forward to seeing this rig Saturday. But it sounds like soon you wont' be the only one with a 2nd tank. David can't help himself... :sombrero:

 

[mcieplinski]

Looking forward to seeing this rig Saturday. But it sounds like soon you wont' be the only one with a 2nd tank. David can't help himself... :sombrero:

Yep - David snapped the last one from outback proven. Once you figure out how to connect it and learn Australian (which we discovered is different from English) it is not that complicated You are the next in line... I can see it

 

[umbertob]

well good grief! Guess I'm lucky to not be in CA. I sure as hell wouldn't be trying to remove the tank and connections every year just for kicks. Good for you if it's REALLY a 1 hr deal but I'd like to watch and time you

Luckily, newer vehicles don't need to pass SMOG every year here in California, or even every other year. My 2006 Sport was only "smogged" once during the 7 years I owned it, can't remember when exactly but I think it was 5 years after I purchased it new.

 

[Jwestpro]

No fault codes and I am able to drive with the the aux tank fully empty. I also timed and it takes 6 min to transfer 20 gallons from aux to main tank. I guess the extra fuel pump made the difference.

Where's a 2nd pump? Was that part of the kit or an idea you all tried?

Anyone can "drive" with the 2nd tank "empty" so what do you mean exactly? Without codes happening saying lack of system vapor pressure or whatever that code says? If yes, then how did you solve this?

---
EDit: I just read about the 2nd pump. Cool. I want to copy that. What's the pump model/where and how did you include it? It seems like if both pumps are along the same line, the slower one would simply restrict the flow to it's max regardless. I am also wondering if a broken/dead pump would still allow flow to be pushed or pulled through it.... the reason being that if so, then a 2nd pump also functions as a backup if the other one dies. I know it seems unlikely but it happened to the older one that came with my used tank.

 

[mcieplinski]

Luckily, newer vehicles don't need to pass SMOG every year here in California, or even every other year. My 2006 Sport was only "smogged" once during the 7 years I owned it, can't remember when exactly but I think it was 5 years after I purchased it new.

Yep it is every 2 years but after 6yrs from first registration. So the first SMOG for my car is due in 2017 (or 2016). I have time to enjoy the aux tank without worrying about SMOG.

Also - and this is very important - at least every two years you SHOULD be checking all connections etc. and thus it really shouldn't be an issue that one has to drop the tank and verify if none of the hook-ups got loose (and they will if you are doing any offroading). If this is an issue for some, than I wouldn't recommend going the aux tank route at all. Just my $.02 on the whole SMOG conversation

 

[mcieplinski]

Where's a 2nd pump? Was that part of the kit or an idea you all tried?

Anyone can "drive" with the 2nd tank "empty" so what do you mean exactly? Without codes happening saying lack of system vapor pressure or whatever that code says? If yes, then how did you solve this?

The second pump is located next to differential (see picture where the pump has "flow" written on it).

As for driving with the aux tank empty, I mean is that I can drive it empty without any codes popping etc. I also don't need any "gravity" help to pump the fuel from aux tank to regular tank (I tested it and the aux-to-main tank hookup, if done close to the main tank and not as designed by crazy Australians by the place where you pump the fuel, makes it even possible to pump the fuel from the aux to the main tank when gravity is against you (rear of the car lower than the front)).

What we did is got the actual schematics for the fuel flow system for NA spec of LR4 and designed the fuel flow and liquid/vapor separator hookups in the places where it naturally belongs (in order to have it done properly you really need to know what each fuel line (out of 6 in the NA LR4 stock system) does. If your car throws codes it probably means that they haven't connected liquid/vapor separator correctly (vapor line from your aux tank has to go to the line that goes to the top of the separator and the fuel overspill line has to go in the line that goes back to the main tank) .I talked with Aussies that designed my aux tank and it is clear that they don't know how NA spec works and thus all that is good in the tank they provide is the actual tank and the fuel gauge and pump (though limited in its power) which is really enough as this is the hard job. All the rest has to be custom and trying to fit their system will result in the whole set up not working correctly (it simply cannot as the way NA spec fuel lines are designed leaves no space for the manufacturers' set up.

 

[mcieplinski]

EDit: I just read about the 2nd pump. Cool. I want to copy that. What's the pump model/where and how did you include it? It seems like if both pumps are along the same line, the slower one would simply restrict the flow to it's max regardless. I am also wondering if a broken/dead pump would still allow flow to be pushed or pulled through it.... the reason being that if so, then a 2nd pump also functions as a backup if the other one dies. I know it seems unlikely but it happened to the older one that came with my used tank.

The additional pump is made by Jegs (#555-15913) and has capacity of 95g/h. The way we designed hook up (in order) is: 1. line from the aux tank goes to the fuel filter 2. T split to two pumps (one manufacturer's low capacity and the other high capacity) 3. connection to the pumps 4. pumps connected to another T split which in turn is connected by the main tank line (as close as possible to the main tank). NO issues with the flow or capacity (the fuel line from the aux tank is big enough to handle the flow). Also - when one fails the other can work.... I am also thinking of adding a switch so that I could disable one pump (the manufacturer pump) and use it as aux pump only when main fails.

 

[Jwestpro]

Awesome and simple! Yes, just have 2nd switch. I wonder what I could do to keep the code from coming up? I just clear it with the IIDtool but still it would be nice to not have it happen if simple enough to resolve.

 

[mcieplinski]

Awesome and simple! Yes, just have 2nd switch. I wonder what I could do to keep the code from coming up? I just clear it with the IIDtool but still it would be nice to not have it happen if simple enough to resolve.

I talked to the guys that designed your fuel tank as well and it works the same way as Long Range Automotive so the only point that I see is that for some reason your hook-up to liquid/vapor separator either got lose or is not connected correctly. If you look at my pictures (your stock set up is the same as mine) you will see a picture titled liquid/vapor separator connection - the bigger additional pipe is for vapor and the smaller additional pipe is for fuel overspill. In order to access this part you need to take the wheel inner liner. Good luck and let me know if you need any help.