Canadian Disco 2 Build
- Thread starter R_Lefebvre
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:Wow1::Wow1: I completely agree w/ that!!!!!:REExeSwimmingHL:
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Here's what the inside of the transmission controller looks like. This this is mounted under the seat on a bracket along with the stereo amplifier. There are 3 bolts, and 1 of them is pretty hard to get to with the seat in place. If you are at risk of having this happen, I'd recommend just removing the hard one and leaving it off. Then you can remove the other two quickly when needed. I credit the effectiveness of repairing this problem on my decision to unplug it ASAP, and then removing it to shake the water out and let it dry. I used the spray several hours later. Rubbing alcohol may work as well, or brake cleaner in a pinch. I simply pried back the tabs on the cover.
The amplifier comes apart using a small torque driver.
Here's a fun picture. On Friday I had to tow one of the guides. He had a problem with his mechanical fuel pump. As I've mentioned before, in my experience the non-electronic trucks have more trouble than the new fuel injected ones. Mind you, I commented about that on Friday, while knocking on wood, and was stricken on Saturday. However, I still got out under my own power.
The amplifier comes apart using a small torque driver.
Here's a fun picture. On Friday I had to tow one of the guides. He had a problem with his mechanical fuel pump. As I've mentioned before, in my experience the non-electronic trucks have more trouble than the new fuel injected ones. Mind you, I commented about that on Friday, while knocking on wood, and was stricken on Saturday. However, I still got out under my own power.
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Antichrist
Expedition Leader
That may be. But on my series Rovers if my fuel pump dies I can mount a fuel container higher than the engine and run a siphon from it to the carburetor or diesel injection pump.
On my Disco if the fuel pump dies I'm SOL unless I have a spare.
Nice photos. I've never understood Land Rover's choice to mount all that electronics under the seat. It makes no sense at all.
I think this is a great example of how misinformation can get someone in trouble.
Rob you are clearly fording well past the LR recommended fording depth and thinking that a snorkle alone will fix that.
back when you made the "countless water crossings" comment and I called BS you acted like I was crazy yet right here you have shown what happens when you dive a electronic controlled truck deep into water.
The truth is that the mechanical based trucks are much better in these conditions. There is much less to protect and much less to go wrong.
thats the simple truth, and although your experience says that the older trucks have more problems in these cases that just highlights the lack of seat time on the trail in real world conditions.
Now to add some good advice to this situation, you need to have some waiters along for these type trips. Allthough it seems a pain to climb into the waiters and walk across a water crossing the time lost is always much less then the time to fix or recover a dead truck.
You also need to understand that unless you are out wheeling with someone on a regular basis you cant trust the information you get. I have seen so many occurences where people are just waiting to see someone dunk thier truck in a known unpassable location just for the comedy of the situation.
We have such a location on a trail that is called "never cross", The crossing has been known by that name for decades yet every year people destroy trucks thinking they can cross it. I have seen it sink trucks when there isnt even standing water, just settled silt.
The best lesson I have learned over the years is if you can walk across it you can drive across it. If when walking across it you sink the truck is sure too as well.
Thom
Rob you are clearly fording well past the LR recommended fording depth and thinking that a snorkle alone will fix that.
back when you made the "countless water crossings" comment and I called BS you acted like I was crazy yet right here you have shown what happens when you dive a electronic controlled truck deep into water.
The truth is that the mechanical based trucks are much better in these conditions. There is much less to protect and much less to go wrong.
thats the simple truth, and although your experience says that the older trucks have more problems in these cases that just highlights the lack of seat time on the trail in real world conditions.
Now to add some good advice to this situation, you need to have some waiters along for these type trips. Allthough it seems a pain to climb into the waiters and walk across a water crossing the time lost is always much less then the time to fix or recover a dead truck.
You also need to understand that unless you are out wheeling with someone on a regular basis you cant trust the information you get. I have seen so many occurences where people are just waiting to see someone dunk thier truck in a known unpassable location just for the comedy of the situation.
We have such a location on a trail that is called "never cross", The crossing has been known by that name for decades yet every year people destroy trucks thinking they can cross it. I have seen it sink trucks when there isnt even standing water, just settled silt.
The best lesson I have learned over the years is if you can walk across it you can drive across it. If when walking across it you sink the truck is sure too as well.
Thom
Geez guys I fear getting my electronics and 'black' boxes (XJ) wet so much that I have a nervous attack every time I wash the engine and I try never to cross anything deeper then my 31's :snorkel::Wow1:
Root Moose
Expedition Leader
The mechanical versus electrical debate rears its head from time to time. In my experience the people with all mechanical rigs that experience mechanical difficulties are either just really unlucky or they are the type that would have issues all the time time due to maintenance (i.e. lack of). The unlucky ones that maintain their trucks are of the "blue moon" occurrence frequency types.
Nowadays I'm a strong believer in EFI on trucks. Normally the computers are placed in a decent location to keep them dry and if a truck is maintained rarely does anything go wrong - along the "blue moon cycle" of the mechanical rigs above if it does.
My XJ has a TCU for the transmission somewhere in the cabin, either behind a kick panel or behind the center console. I've often wondered about extending the wiring to it and relocating it as high on the firewall as possible. In the XJ case I can't say I've ever heard of the computer getting swamped enough for it to fail. It is a relatively simple device compared to the LR stuff IIRC. We don't have hill descent or anything like that. Just a simple logic box to talk to the ECU while shifting solenoids on the transmission.
Rob, would it be possible to relocate the transmission controller? Extending the wires shouldn't be a big deal (thinking added impedance). I'd look at where the TCU hardness enters the cabin; if it is a logical plugged connector at that location it may make sense to make a extension to go in-line there. If it is a small pig tail maybe get one from the wrecker and extend it to keep the original as a spare.
The trick to dealing with all mechanical or electronic trucks is knowing their strengths and weaknesses and planning accordingly.
$0.02
Nowadays I'm a strong believer in EFI on trucks. Normally the computers are placed in a decent location to keep them dry and if a truck is maintained rarely does anything go wrong - along the "blue moon cycle" of the mechanical rigs above if it does.
My XJ has a TCU for the transmission somewhere in the cabin, either behind a kick panel or behind the center console. I've often wondered about extending the wiring to it and relocating it as high on the firewall as possible. In the XJ case I can't say I've ever heard of the computer getting swamped enough for it to fail. It is a relatively simple device compared to the LR stuff IIRC. We don't have hill descent or anything like that. Just a simple logic box to talk to the ECU while shifting solenoids on the transmission.
Rob, would it be possible to relocate the transmission controller? Extending the wires shouldn't be a big deal (thinking added impedance). I'd look at where the TCU hardness enters the cabin; if it is a logical plugged connector at that location it may make sense to make a extension to go in-line there. If it is a small pig tail maybe get one from the wrecker and extend it to keep the original as a spare.
The trick to dealing with all mechanical or electronic trucks is knowing their strengths and weaknesses and planning accordingly.
$0.02
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Sure is! If you don't want water around here, you restrict yourself to logging roads. That's the simple fact.
That's the name, thanks!
CampNL is fun. And we need more Rover content!
I was a little disappointed at the amount of trails run at the OVLR birthday party, this event is all about the trails. The only thing is, there's not much easy stuff. There's one level 2 trail, the rest is like this, or even bigger.I have run EFI with no fuel pump, but you can't do it with a stock system. If you can control the system, you can open up the injectors, and at high manifold vacuum, it sucks the fuel into the manifold. Anyway, just a fun oddity with little real world practicality.
I think what happened here is that Land Rover figured that anybody using an automatic Disco won't be doing anything hard core? So the compromise was worth it. I dunno. They must of run out of places under the dash to stick it, or there was some other reason. I do question why the amp is *above* the transmission computer. That extra 2" could make a difference.
First, I never acted like you were "crazy" for saying that. I did point out that there is *no* set fording depth limit recommended by LR. In the manual, it says "if you must go over 20", do this, this and this".
Secondly, here's what happens when you take a mechanical truck in deep water (the exact same hole), this guy is on 44's I believe, btw:
I agree, there are fewer things which will be effected *should* something go wrong, but the distributor system, and generally poorer intake air system are *much* more likely to cause a problem and get you stuck in the first place. Water is unavoidable around here, and every time I go out it seems like at least one mechanical truck gets in trouble either because it sucked in water, or the dizzy got wet.
As wet as my truck got, it never even stopped running, BTW.
Now, I'm not saying that EFI is *better* than mechanical. But it does pose a different set of challenges to be worked through. And I think it's not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be.
There's no misinformation here. I'm not making any claims about EFI being better, or immune, or anything like that. I'm just saying, it works fine for me. I *Have* been through countless water crossings, and only once had a problem, and it's only because I got stuck. I've seen a number of mechanical trucks have water problems on holes that I've not had problems with.
The other information here, is that EFI people should get some proper electrical cleaner and carry it around with them. If a computer gets wet, disconnect it from electricity ASAP, and open it up if you can and clean it out. There's a good chance it'll be fine. I think a lot of the problems people have are caused because they run a wet computer for too long, and something blows up. Or, they leave it too long ( a day is too long) and something corrodes. You must open it up, clean it out, ASAP.
A can of electronics cleaner is something you should be carrying around, just like dizzy people should be carrying WD40. And no, WD40 is NOT the proper thing to use with electronics!
Now this is the important part, and I agree 100%. This was the first time that I was the first one through a water hole. Usually I follow somebody else, I'm not a trail leader.
Anyway, not knowing what I was getting into was my mistake here, I accept that and admit it. That's the take-away lesson here. Actually, I had been through this hole the year before, but the details changed. It seems to have filled up with silt since last year. Even a stick check would have been better than nothing.
And I knew that, but it needed reinforcing. Lesson learned. I'm just glad it didn't cost me.
I've thought about that. One of the unknowns is what would happen with regards to electical noise. I think simply using shielded wire would help.
But, I think maybe just waterproofing the boxes where they are might be easier. I have to look into that.
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D
DiscoD
Guest
It probably already has cost you, you just don't know it yet. Some symptoms of water damage may not show up for another month. Sometimes it's a year later. In the case of James Gall from Vale, CO and his 1995 D1, he's still having "issues" 6-years after dunking his truck in a flooded river. Time will tell; maybe you got lucky, maybe you didn't. It's just the risk we take sometimes.
But some of the statements you have made are not even laughable. They're sad. You've got a lot to learn.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I've been doing this for over a year without issue. Actually was deeper last year:
Well those sure dont look like 44" tires on the jeep...must measure them different in canada?
plus the fact his tires are not under water and the engine would have been above the water I bet he just crashed in covering the engine in water...still with some simple work he should be able to drive through that depth water in a prepared truck.
I do give you credit for posting your failures, but I also think you need to rethink your conclusions. There just really isnt a solid argument that more electronics is a better way to go when you plan on dunking your truck. Thinking that way is just very short sighted.
my old scout set up to be submarine safe could drive for miles and miles with the engine under water and never missed a beat. When it comes to deep water less is more and electronics of any kind is the enemy.
plus the fact his tires are not under water and the engine would have been above the water I bet he just crashed in covering the engine in water...still with some simple work he should be able to drive through that depth water in a prepared truck.
I do give you credit for posting your failures, but I also think you need to rethink your conclusions. There just really isnt a solid argument that more electronics is a better way to go when you plan on dunking your truck. Thinking that way is just very short sighted.
my old scout set up to be submarine safe could drive for miles and miles with the engine under water and never missed a beat. When it comes to deep water less is more and electronics of any kind is the enemy.
