Google Project Fi

haven

Expedition Leader
Google has announced its new wireless phone service. It's called Project Fi (as in WiFi).
https://fi.google.com/about/

For $20 a month, the plan offers unlimited domestic (USA) talk and text, unlimited international texting, and low-cost international calling. You'll have coverage for talk and text in 120 countries. Check here for more information about international service and rates.
https://fi.google.com/about/rates/

Add $10 more for each GB of data you think you'll need. (For example, $20 for 2 GB.) If you don't use your data allotment, Google will credit your account with the cost of the unused data. (The credit seems to be in 1 MB=$0.01 increments.) You can use the credit to pay for basic phone service or more data next month. (Not sure about getting cash back.) Use the calculator on this page to see how it works
https://fi.google.com/about/plan/

If you go over your data allotment, you will be charged in the same 1 MB = $0.01 increments. So if you use 350 MB of data more than your allotment, you will be charged an additional $3.50.

Google has contracted with Sprint and T-Mobile for cellular service. Your phone will choose the carrier that offers the best connection. Both Sprint and T-Mobile offer LTE service in most metropolitan areas in USA. Outside metro areas, service switches to 3G and 2G. Fine for phone and text, not so good for data. ATT and Verizon offer high speed service in more locations outside metro USA areas.

At first, Fi will only work with the Google Nexus 6 phone. The Nexus 6 has the ability to make calls and send texts via WiFi. Google claims that the phone will seamlessly switch from WiFi to cellular network. For example, you could initiate a call at home via WiFi. As you walk out of the house, the phone will switch to cellular without you being aware of the switch.

Nexus 6 may be the only phone supported, but Fi will work with tablets and laptops. Google says if the device can connect via WiFi to Google Hangouts, you will be able to use your Fi phone number to make and receive calls and texts.

To use Fi, you can purchase a new Nexus 6 phone, or use one you already own. Google supplies a special SIM that has the ability to work with multiple service providers.

A new Nexus 6 with 64 GB of memory costs $699. Or you can pay $29.17 per month for 24 months. A quick check of Craigslist shows unused Nexus 6 with 64 GB storage costs about $500.

Google Fi does not require an annual commitment. There is no termination fee.

Initially, Google is offering Fi by invitation. Sign up at the web site above.
 

AlbanyTom

Adventurer
I don't know if it's good, or bad, but I'm sure that this is spooky. In order to make this work, the phone will have to maintain "presence", meaning that it has to know where every phone is at all times. Not a big deal? Maybe not... But it means in addition to GPS data, which I believe the phone carriers have to track for 911 purposes even if you turn it off for normal apps, they'll have a history of all incoming and outgoing calls, plus all of the network information, including routing and any applicable wi-fi passwords, for every network used by every phone. Google already had the largest intelligence gathering system in the world, now that system can become one step larger.

The second implication of this is that if it takes off, the free wi-fi that so many places have setup are now going to be carrying the extra traffic of phone calls. If it takes off, I can see a market for throttling services for wi-fi routers.

And it does sound expensive. But then again, one of the most popular players in the phone market is way too expensive, and everybody seems to love them.
 

gary in ohio

Explorer
It would be interesting to see how the "free" wifi system works, I dbout it going to be use any free wifi hot spot, but specific google approved sites. Since there are few OPEN wifi ports any more or at least open without having to click through some accept page, driving down the road and finding a free wifi site is not enough...
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Not sure how this differs from T-Mobile's Wifi product offering. T-Mobile calls some of the Google features "next-gen" wifi calling. Phones are not restricted to Google's Nexus. 6. Basically VoiP + phone number management/routing.

Is this Google just rebranding an existing service?

Edit add: Or T-mobile admitting they are not competitive

Why T-Mobile needs Wi-Fi calling: its network can't match AT&T and Verizon
When your network is behind, you have to find other ways to compete.

......T-Mobile has improved a bit. In 34 out of 125 metro areas tested by RootMetrics, T-Mobile was either first or tied for first in call quality in 1H 2014, up from 30 such “wins” in the second half of last year. (Ties count as wins, so the total wins add up to more than 125, Moore said.)

Verizon had 119 wins in the 125 metro areas in the first half of 2014, while AT&T had 113 and Sprint had 17.

“In the case of the national results, Verizon reigns supreme and AT&T is a very close second,” Moore said.

T-Mobile fared worse when measured across entire states instead of metro areas. T-Mobile was unable to claim a win or a tie in any of the 50 states on the call performance metric. Even Sprint was able to match the call performance of AT&T and Verizon in seven states. This suggests that T-Mobile coverage suffers outside metro areas.......
 
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uli2000

Adventurer
Unless your a heavy data user its not a good deal, plus you need a $700 phone to even get on the plab..

Most every smartphone now a days is ~$700 or more new. We've just gotten so used to carrier subsidized pricing we don't realize we're paying for the phone in increased service costs. The US and Canada are about the only places that still sell mobile phones like this. Project Fi is an incredible idea. Sadly, the two carriers they chose to partner with offer no service in my area whatsoever, and very little service in most of rural America. If they could offer the same service level as AT&T or Verizon I'd sign up for it in a heartbeat.
 

uli2000

Adventurer
I don't know if it's good, or bad, but I'm sure that this is spooky. In order to make this work, the phone will have to maintain "presence", meaning that it has to know where every phone is at all times. Not a big deal? Maybe not... But it means in addition to GPS data, which I believe the phone carriers have to track for 911 purposes even if you turn it off for normal apps, they'll have a history of all incoming and outgoing calls, plus all of the network information, including routing and any applicable wi-fi passwords, for every network used by every phone. Google already had the largest intelligence gathering system in the world, now that system can become one step larger.

The second implication of this is that if it takes off, the free wi-fi that so many places have setup are now going to be carrying the extra traffic of phone calls. If it takes off, I can see a market for throttling services for wi-fi routers.

And it does sound expensive. But then again, one of the most popular players in the phone market is way too expensive, and everybody seems to love them.

Our wireless carriers have been offering this data for free to the NSA for several years now. At least Google is offering a service discount instead of giving it away for free ;)
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Have we seen this before? Think Microsoft and Skype. Carriers didn't like Skype because it would potentially reduce revenue. Carrier dislike of Skype was immediately transferred to Microsoft, post acquisition. Carriers control access to mobile market. How is Microsoft mobile doing these days? Not so good.

GoogleFi routes traffic off carrier infrastructure, reducing revenue. As an initial strategy, Google partners with 2 carriers that are struggling (T-Mobile/Sprint), reducing their revenues. Likely that AT&T/Verizon were not interested. Dislike for GoogleFi now results in AT&T/Verizon backing away from Google product, offering fewer smartphones/promotions/etc.

GoogleFi might be a strategic mis-step.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
So...if you are at home, and have WiFi, and you use your whiz-bang GooglyPhone to do some data thing, and it uses your WiFi to get the data - do you pay Google for the data that the phone just slurped off the WiFi that you already paid for?
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
So...if you are at home, and have WiFi, and you use your whiz-bang GooglyPhone to do some data thing, and it uses your WiFi to get the data - do you pay Google for the data that the phone just slurped off the WiFi that you already paid for?

Well no as to your local "data". But that VoiP call does need an infrastructure to route calls and move between wifi spots for call continuity. That is not free.
 

dwh

Tail-End Charlie
Well no as to your local "data". But that VoiP call does need an infrastructure to route calls and move between wifi spots for call continuity. That is not free.

I'm not talking about the VOIP, I'm talking about that penny a meg data rate.

So it knows that it's downloading data from your personal WiFi access point, and won't charge you a data charge on that, but it also knows when you are downloading data through a McD's hotspot and charges you a data charge for that?

Or does it only charge for data through a cell net and not charge at all for data through a WiFi?

Or, does it charge a penny a meg regardless, and you get to pay for data at home that you already paid for, and get to pay for data over open access points that you would normally get for free?
 

mpinco

Expedition Leader
Haven't seen the fine print, only the following article:

Price comparison: Google's Project Fi versus Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile
It's cheaper, but the difference may not be worth switching over

In addition to having to buy a Google phone:

But there are limits to what Project Fi can give you. Mainly, there's no such thing as a family plan and data cannot be shared between users. Everyone must have their own individual Fi plan.

Considering the poor carrier partners, limited wifi and that most plans have unlimited voice ........ consider this "interesting but not compelling"
 

CaliMobber

Adventurer
Any data used off wifi is not counted toward your data usage so in that sense it has some benafits. all those wifi that have a page to accept the usage you bypass that page and it just works.

Its kinda like ATT users, if you go into mcdonalds it auto connects you with out asking since your already setup for the wifi from the network.

I would say the best feature with this service is it shares Tmobile and Sprint. Ive never seen any service that uses 2 networks like this before. It should help compete with the 2 big networks since Tmobile works the best in cities and sprint can help cover the countryside coverage.

But if your in the cities mostly then Tmobile only is still the best and has better pricing. plus unlimited music streaming even on the cheapest plans.
 

AlbanyTom

Adventurer
Have we seen this before? Think Microsoft and Skype. Carriers didn't like Skype because it would potentially reduce revenue. Carrier dislike of Skype was immediately transferred to Microsoft, post acquisition. Carriers control access to mobile market. How is Microsoft mobile doing these days? Not so good.

GoogleFi routes traffic off carrier infrastructure, reducing revenue. As an initial strategy, Google partners with 2 carriers that are struggling (T-Mobile/Sprint), reducing their revenues. Likely that AT&T/Verizon were not interested. Dislike for GoogleFi now results in AT&T/Verizon backing away from Google product, offering fewer smartphones/promotions/etc.

GoogleFi might be a strategic mis-step.

I don't know... Google is smarter than Microsoft. Microsoft buys things and sometimes kills them. And they're not good at making software, in general. To me they're the new IBM. The only strong market they have is business. They don't do mobile well because android and iphone are better platforms. Carriers in the US make money by giving away the phones and charging for service. Apple makes money by selling proprietary hardware. That's not microsoft's model, they want to sell or rent you bad software. They're going down the road of rights protection and licensing games, like the SCO group did trying to hang on to the last embers of Unix. Wait for the lawsuits about software concepts that they took from others.

Taking traffic off the carrier isn't something Google cares about. They make money from harvesting information. And they are awesome at it. Leveraging wi-fi lets them swipe bandwidth from everywhere, while collecting data about the network, and reducing their need for carrier bandwidth all at the same time. It's brilliant, in my view. I'm not even sure the phone carriers care, if they're making money selling expensive contracts. Offloading to wifi could be good for them, too. To me the losers are the suckers putting up free wifi - mcdonalds for instance, clearly not business savvy these days - and if these phones take off, I expect free wifi to become limited. Even better, they'll use the customer's phone to send data about the customer and the providers network through the providers network. It's like they steal things, and get the people they've taken the things from to drive the haul to their warehouse in other people's trucks! And they give to charity, too! Al Capone would be smiling if he heard of this scheme.

As to 'google won't work with just any wifi'...oh yes they will. They'll build the phones so that they hop on wifi using whatever ports that they find open. Free wifi is free network bandwidth, which has value. Like flat space, money, time, c-clamps, and flashlights, it's one of the things it's impossible to have too much of.
 

Antichrist

Expedition Leader
I guess I'm slow, I don't even get the point.
Phone signal is more pervasive around the US than data and most people probably have unlimited calling on their phones. So why would someone choose to use a phone that has less coverage (unless they never leave cities)? Depending on how well it works internationally I can see some advantage there.

I do like the rollover data, even though I never use all 3gb of my data.
 

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