Looking for purchase advice regarding an older Suburban

[HighPlainsPhotographer]

Just found out my wife and I are expecting number four! I need a vehicle that I can put four child seats in. My wife's Mercedes has room for all of us, including the new addition, so this truck will be a back up family vehicle and serve our needs to get out and explore. I have all but convinced myself I want a Suburban, I'm not sure what year to go with so I am looking for some guidance. My budget, less than $5k for the initial purchase. I am handy under the hood and can perform most maintenance and modifications myself.

I plan on a mild lift and 33" or so tires, selectable locker in the back so I can use it for my winter commute if needed. A little bit of body armor and probably a nice roof rack as there will not be much storage room inside with six seats being used. I think I want to go with a 3/4T burb. This truck will be used for family highway vacations and off road adventures such as fishing and remote self sustained camping. We live in the mountains above Denver, CO so it will often be used for back road explorations. It will not be a daily driver but will need to handle extended highway trips.

I originally started looking at the 73-91' solid front axle trucks. I have looked a little at the newer stuff. I see pros and cons to all of them. I like the solid axle trucks, they look cool, they are stupid simple, easy to lift, but not much engine. Thought about a Cummins in an older truck. I'm not sure about the newer stuff, a Vortec engine would be nice, maybe a 6.5TD? Not sure about the IFS? More comfortable interior in the newer trucks. Looking for your thoughts and guidance!

 

[xbox73]

Make sure you consider a Ford Excursion too. Those were all solid axle right up until 2005, when they ceased production, so are very easy to lift too. You likely won't find a diesel for your $5k initial budget, but you could likely find the 6.8L V10 with a bit of searching. The Ford V10 is a bit thirsty, but then so is a Chevy BBC V8. The Ford V10 has a good reputation for reliability, other than the odd niggle here & there, like spark plugs. I had a '99 Chevy Suburban 2500 w/ 7.4L 454 BBC V8, mildly lifted on 33s, and while my 2000 Excursion w/ 7.3L diesel is fully built up, I feel the Excursion is way more truck like than the Suburban ever was. The Excursion has more room inside than a Suburban too. Don't get me wrong, my Suburban went on more than its fair share of adventures snow boarding & trips down to Baja etc. than most, but my built up Excursion is way more capable offroad. Most of that is due to the mods that have been done to it, but I feel the Suburban is a bit more car like, and the Excursion is a bit more truck like. That could be good or bad, depending on one's point of view, preferences & needs.

 

[evilfij]

I have 319k miles on my 1998 K1500.

Having driven the pre-vortec ones they are a bit slow for my tastes. A 96-99 K2500 would be about perfect in my book.

 

[HighPlainsPhotographer]

Make sure you consider a Ford Excursion too. Those were all solid axle right up until 2005, when they ceased production, so are very easy to lift too. You likely won't find a diesel for your $5k initial budget, but you could likely find the 6.8L V10 with a bit of searching. The Ford V10 is a bit thirsty, but then so is a Chevy BBC V8. The Ford V10 has a good reputation for reliability, other than the odd niggle here & there, like spark plugs. I had a '99 Chevy Suburban 2500 w/ 7.4L 454 BBC V8, mildly lifted on 33s, and while my 2000 Excursion w/ 7.3L diesel is fully built up, I feel the Excursion is way more truck like than the Suburban ever was. The Excursion has more room inside than a Suburban too. Don't get me wrong, my Suburban went on more than its fair share of adventures snow boarding & trips down to Baja etc. than most, but my built up Excursion is way more capable offroad. Most of that is due to the mods that have been done to it, but I feel the Suburban is a bit more car like, and the Excursion is a bit more truck like. That could be good or bad, depending on one's point of view, preferences & needs.

Thanks for the input. I sold my 2WD 7.3l Excursion last summer, it has been dearly missed but the 2WD part did not cut it where we live, I could not get it out of the driveway four months of the year. I would love to have another 7.3l Excursion, but it is not in the budget. I will see what I can find in the way of a decent 4x V10 Ex. Last time I looked they were a little spendy in my area.

I have 319k miles on my 1998 K1500.

Having driven the pre-vortec ones they are a bit slow for my tastes. A 96-99 K2500 would be about perfect in my book.

I am a little concerned about the performance of the pre-vortec engines. I think I will try and drive a few different trucks and see what hits me.

 

[ZMagic97]

I'll agree the Vortec motors are a big step up. My 06 GMC with the Vortec 5.3 could give my old LT1 Z28 with bolt ons a run for the money even with the 6" lift and 35s.

 

[justcuz]

Depending on how handy you are under the hood, you may want to consider a pre Vortec TBI Suburban.
The cams in the stock TBI engines are super low lift. A stock carbed 390/410 lift 350 cam or slightly bigger will liven it up a lot. My son and I installed a 398/420 lift cam in his 1993 K2500 when we rebuilt it 2 years ago and it cruises at highway speeds much better now with no mileage penalty and less downshifting of the transmission. The TBI does not like too much lift so the maximum cam lift I would install in a otherwise stock TBI engine would be a 405/415 lift cam out of an early Camaro or Corvette. You can have the TBI modified and a chip burned but personally a slightly bigger cam has worked just fine for us. This modification can be done to a solid axle or IFS Surburban. I am a Chevy guy and own Suburbans...but I would not hesitate to own a 4x4 Excursion.
An Excursion with a V10 will not get the mileage of a diesel but will get you 4 wheel drive within your budget. I have heard of fleet V10 engines lasting 300 thousand miles with good maintanance. 33" tires will fit with no suspension modifications, but I am not sure what lockers are available for the Sterling rear axle.
I would suggest broadening your perspective and look as far as California for a gas 4 wheel drive Excursion. There are companies that will check them out for you and if you fly in to Southern California I would be happy to pick you up at any of our local airports. A 2 day road trip home and your set!
One other thing I forgot to add is the installation of Vortec heads. Vortec heads increase horsepower too. The installation of Vortec heads and a cam in a TBI engine will conservatively net you between 30 to 50 horsepower. The flow characteristics of Vortec heads are much improved over the TBI head design.

 

[HighPlainsPhotographer]

Depending on how handy you are under the hood, you may want to consider a pre Vortec TBI Suburban.
The cams in the stock TBI engines are super low lift. A stock carbed 390/410 lift 350 cam or slightly bigger will liven it up a lot. My son and I installed a 398/420 lift cam in his 1993 K2500 when we rebuilt it 2 years ago and it cruises at highway speeds much better now with no mileage penalty and less downshifting of the transmission. The TBI does not like too much lift so the maximum cam lift I would install in a otherwise stock TBI engine would be a 405/415 lift cam out of an early Camaro or Corvette. You can have the TBI modified and a chip burned but personally a slightly bigger cam has worked just fine for us. This modification can be done to a solid axle or IFS Surburban. I am a Chevy guy and own Suburbans...but I would not hesitate to own a 4x4 Excursion.
An Excursion with a V10 will not get the mileage of a diesel but will get you 4 wheel drive within your budget. I have heard of fleet V10 engines lasting 300 thousand miles with good maintanance. 33" tires will fit with no suspension modifications, but I am not sure what lockers are available for the Sterling rear axle.
I would suggest broadening your perspective and look as far as California for a gas 4 wheel drive Excursion. There are companies that will check them out for you and if you fly in to Southern California I would be happy to pick you up at any of our local airports. A 2 day road trip home and your set!
One other thing I forgot to add is the installation of Vortec heads. Vortec heads increase horsepower too. The installation of Vortec heads and a cam in a TBI engine will conservatively net you between 30 to 50 horsepower. The flow characteristics of Vortec heads are much improved over the TBI head design.

Thanks for the suggestions and the offer to help with airport transportation in the SOCAL area!

I'm going to look at a few Suburban's over the next couple of days, a 87', 98' and 99'. All 3/4T and appear to be in nice shape. The 98 and 99 have a 454 in them. I also found a low mileage V10 Excursion to look at, salvage title, but I will still take a peek.

I'm still undecided which way to go. Having owned all of the body style trucks I am looking at, I see pros and cons to all of them. My wife really enjoyed the Ex, so she is excited about that. She also liked the interior of the newer Sub's. I think I still prefer the older solid axle Subs or an Ex........need to make up my mind. Any additional input is greatly appreciated.

Having owned an Excursion, I know what to look for on these. Anything in particular I should be looking at or aware of on the 96' - 99' Subs? Are these acceptable platforms for what I want to with them?

 

[justcuz]

96 to 99 Suburbans have some electrical issues with power windows and fan speed switches in the HVAC system as I recall.
You want to look underneath for signs of it being used as a plow truck (missing tow hooks and front tie rod protector). Also the idler arm and center link are wear items. Look for hard use shown by heavy scrapes on lower control arms, skid plates and lower rear axle housing. CV boots should not be leaking, nor should the rear driveshaft slip yoke seal. Check for leaks at the front differential axle outputs and check the gear oil. Heavy leakage and low or dirty gear oil my mean a front diff remove and reseal is in order. Make sure the rear pinion seal is not leaking.
Generally check all fluids to see if they are clean and topped up. If you find a 3/4 ton with a G80 locker, don't shy away from it. The G80 in the 9.5 semi float and the 10.5 full floater are both stronger and more reliable than the 10 bolt 1/2 ton units.
As for suiting your uses, I bought a book in Durango a couple years ago that shows the author exploring the trails and roads of the San Juans in a Suburban.

After all that, if you can find a nice Excursion, I would buy it. Kids never get any smaller and they like to bring friends. Family camping trips with 4 kids, bigger is always better!
You can upgrade the front axle to a Dana 60 from an F-350 and install super duty springs that will allow 35's with ease. The Sterling rear axle is a good unit too.
Unless you buy a solid axle Suburban, the Excursion will be easier and simpler to modify for off road use.

 

[1leglance]

I love my 70 Burb, but after all the work it is really an 88 Burb with a 70 Body
TBI, 700r4, axles and so much more
Build here, pics at first I need to redo but plenty of info here on Expo and 67-72...and they talk about the newer rigs also
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=496020

 

[ljense8]

I like the TBI setup of the pre-Vortec 'Burbs. I would say look for a 91 for the nicer looking front clip. If you can't find a 3/4 ton, the 1/2 is pretty easily converted. On the TBI trucks the trans was still independent from the ECU, so you can bolt up a TH400 pretty easily, and swap in a D60 and 14 bolt for durability. You would have to move spring mounts on the axles, but then you could go with a rear disc brake swap for better control.

 

[rayra]

98-99 K2500 or k1500 would be in your price range. LT or LTZ package usually has 2nd row buckets / captain's chairs, vs the 60/40 bench in the LS variants. The separate 2nd row seats allow easier access to the 3rd row (and from BOTH sides of the vehicle), particularly for car seats etc.

LTZ/Z71 has some nice extras and a much more robust roof rack that is quite serviceable as-is

Better re-think your cargo concerns. There's 30cu'+ of storage space BEHIND the 3rd row in a Suburban, 10sq' of floor space. They're truly quite large. With the 3rd row out and the 2nd row folded, one can fit a full 4'x8' sheet of material behind the front seats with the hatch fully closed. But having a more robust cargo rack or something like a THULE coffin on the roof will be nice as the kids grow and their luggage gets bigger than a kid seat and diaper bag / backpack.

here's a stack of 8' 2x4s in the back of mine.

hmm, I don't seem to have a pic handy with the 3rd row in and up. Here's a pic from today, the dark 'holes' in the middle of the pic are the mounting locations for the removable 3rd row. You get some idea of how large the area behind it is.

 

[chilliwak]

I personally love tho old school `Burbs´as they are easy to work on and give lots of off road fun with solid axels. I have a 92 Yukon with a 6.5 turbo diesel. Runs great even with high mileage. No powerhouse unless you consider the crawl torque compared with a gasser, but what great mileage! I say go 3/4 ton and old school. You will love it and as you have already stated this will be a back up vehicle then you can go nuts doing mods that you and your family will love. Cheers, Chilli...:wings:

 

[Rockhounder]

Having owned both a 97 sub and now have the older body style, one thing that most people do not notice which ended up being a huge bonus for us is that the older body subs (up to 91) have 8 inches wider bodies, with the commensurate extra room inside the cargo area. huge difference..... don't know why GM decided to make the newer subs have Less cargo room inside. We have now both a 91 and 88 sub with the solid front axles, and when we first got the 88, we liked how it drove so much better than the 91. If I were to compare the feel, it felt like the solid axle 88 seemed to drive like it was on rails, and hold a line much better. The 97 sub drove more like a car, with softer, longer bounce of the front wheels due to the long torison bars.

That brings up another problem, which is our 97 got driven pretty hard on off road and washboarded roads, and that eventually caused all the weight of the front half of the truck to concentrate right on the frame point where the torison bars met the frame, right under the front doors. This eventually caused the front doors to not close straight anymore. I hated that design flaw. The older leaf spring front axle properly distributes the weight on four points of the frame, cradling perfectly around the center of mass of the engine and transmission. A much stronger and better design in my opinion. We will never go back to torison arms frame trucks.

Here is our 91 and 88. The 91 (red and white) is next to fix up and resttore

 

[Sclarkie]

Make sure you consider a Ford Excursion too. Those were all solid axle right up until 2005, when they ceased production, so are very easy to lift too. You likely won't find a diesel for your $5k initial budget, but you could likely find the 6.8L V10 with a bit of searching. The Ford V10 is a bit thirsty, but then so is a Chevy BBC V8. The Ford V10 has a good reputation for reliability, other than the odd niggle here & there, like spark plugs. I had a '99 Chevy Suburban 2500 w/ 7.4L 454 BBC V8, mildly lifted on 33s, and while my 2000 Excursion w/ 7.3L diesel is fully built up, I feel the Excursion is way more truck like than the Suburban ever was. The Excursion has more room inside than a Suburban too. Don't get me wrong, my Suburban went on more than its fair share of adventures snow boarding & trips down to Baja etc. than most, but my built up Excursion is way more capable offroad. Most of that is due to the mods that have been done to it, but I feel the Suburban is a bit more car like, and the Excursion is a bit more truck like. That could be good or bad, depending on one's point of view, preferences & needs.

Xbox- You said you had a 'mild lift' on your K2500 Sub- I've been considering lifting mine, a K2500 w 7.4, but can't find anybody that makes a lift other than 6". What did you have? I'm not looking to do a torsion bar crank. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[HighPlainsPhotographer]

Thanks for the continued response. The 87' 3/4t I was supposed to look at sold. Everyone else who I planned to visit flaked off on me. The joys of buying a vehicle on Craig's List.

I found a low mileage 91' 1/2t to look at. Leaning towards a solid axle Suburban but I have not ruled out an Excursion if I can find something decent that fits my budget.