Trailer hitch height relative to vehicle--is vehicle being lower an issue?

[MountainD]

So on my trailer build, with my current vehicle hitch configuration, the vehicle hitch is and 4 or 6 inches lower than the trailer tongue--this forces the back of the trailer up slightly. Is this an issue at all? I can actually see how that may aid in rear exit clearance for the trailer. I have a couple options that I could do to make it level, but before I even explored that, I thought I would check here.

I'll take a pic later today to show you the heights. I have not cut my trailer tongue to length or welded on the LocknRoll, so I have a lot of flexibility at this point...

 

[kmlacroix]

It is an issue. You will need to raise the ball or lower the trailer.

 

[Yulli]

You want it to be even at height.

 

[RagnarD]

I prefer to set mine up so that the tongue is slightly low vs level. When the trailer is loaded, it sets almost level.

Depending on your set up, you may want to gain a few inches on the tow vehicle side and a few on the trailer side to help is look more balanced.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I made my tongue the exact height as the receiver for maximum clearance. That would be the only reason I can think why height would make any difference.

 

[skersfan]

The trailer will tow better if the hitch of the trailer is 1.5 inches lower than the rear of the trailer, if it is properly balanced. I would raise yours some, but it is not imperative to be level, but the ball should never be higher.

Most of these trailers are built so all the weight is too far forward of the axle, normally way too much, with battery, water, and storage there. You want your tow vehicle level, way more important than the trailer being level. Too much tongue weight changes the way the tow vehicle drives, brakes or reacts to bumps in the road. Also too much tongue weight makes turning the trailer around, by disconnecting on a dead end trail, nearly impossible.

 

[MountainD]

These pictures are the best I could get until I tow it into the road--the driveway isn't completely level, but here is how it sits with a few huge caveats. #1: I haven't cut the tongue to length yet. #2 I haven't welded the LocknRoll to the tongue so the vehicle hasn't sagged yet (the tongue jack is still down). #3 I haven't taken the trailer anywhere so the springs are unbroken-in (brand new). #4 I haven't put on the tongue box which houses 2x6V golf cart batteries @65lbs each (150#+ with the tongue box). Once I add the box/batteries, I am going to check my tongue weight and see how much other stuff I want to add to the tongue. Right now the trailer is balanced so very little weight is on the tongue, maybe 20#, in anticipation of adding 150#+ to it. I also haven't placed my water containers yet and I'll add some additional tongue storage.

My plan is to fully load the trailer and put some typical weight into the tow vehicle, temporarily bolt the hitch onto the tongue, and drive around a little to bounce things a bit and see how it handles. Then I can see how far I am truly off after it settles a little--my guess is it will be around 4" off the height. I may weld another 3" tube on the underside of the tongue and put the hitch on the bottom to lower it 3". I knew it was going to be low--I really want to keep the pintle hitch above my receiver as that is what I use to recover folks and the Lock-n-Roll with the 4" rise doesn't clear the pintle--the rise hits it. I asked L&R if they would extend the hitch, even for a fee, and they said no--that it would require testing. They suggested a hitch extension, but I can't do that out of principle. Once I get everything loaded and broken in a little, I'll report back and see where things stand. I have only towed this trailer pre mods and it was fairly level and pulled really well...

 

[BADDANDY]

It looks like you may be doing a Spring under.

Your conundrum is one of trailer axle ground clearance vs trailer frame ground clearance vs trailer coupler height vs hitch receiver height with the trailer and tow vehicle fully loaded. This is further complicated if the trailer coupler height prevents you from opening a tailgate.

1. Using tow vehicle tire size as a must forces you to build the suspension to keep all of the above level and/or to get the trailer coupler height to allow you to open a tailgate. With big tires; this would either require a spring under, flat springs, or short spring mounts.

2. Using a variable tire size that allows you to build the suspension with the maximum trailer axle ground clearance vs trailer frame ground clearance while ensuring a level trailer coupler height and hitch receiver height that will always allow you to open a tailgate. With smaller tires; this would allow either a spring over, lift springs, or tall spring mounts.

I've always built my OFF ROAD trailer suspensions based on #2 built around an even trailer coupler to hitch height. This allows me a trailer with high frame clearance, axle clearance > tow vehicle axle pumpkin clearance, and maximum suspension travel. I always start off with a spring over, then get springs, spring mounts, and tires to complete.

Case in point; my M416 had 31" tires, spring over with stock springs and shorter spring mounts, and my Neon is on 28" tires, spring over with flatter and longer springs and stock tall spring mounts to achieve the same result and with an even trailer coupler to hitch height. Both trailer's frames were at 25" and both trailer's axles were higher than the tow vehicle's pumpkin ground clearance with 35" tires.

My secondary belief on using variable tires is that mine are smaller, less weight, easier to find a spare mounting location, and are a more easily found size and cheaper to replace than the tow vehicles big tires. Yes, tires equal to the tow vehicle's results in maximum axle ground clearance and equal to that of the tow vehicles', but I still achieve over a foot with my reasoning.

 

[RagnarD]

It does not look bad from the. Going to a spring over might be a bit much at this point. A ball mount with just a few inches of drop would probably get you where you want to be (and you can change it if needed).

 

[MountainD]

I wanted the same tire size for several reasons, including that I am running just one spare for both the TV and the trailer as they are identical in every way. I also prefer the look, but that was completely secondary. Spring under was intentional as I have the spring hangers made to be skid plates and then you can use the springs to go up and over obstacles where as spring over would have the axle get hung up on. I knew that my design would result in approximately 4.5" height difference from day one, so this isn't a surprise. I just knew that I could deal with whatever condition I had to adjust for. I knew that ideally things would be level, but considering I don't have any camber/caster issues due to my stout straight axle, I didn't know what other concerns being not level would entail.

Lets say I am 4" off, but over the length of the tongue it isn't too bad---what issues do I really have to consider that may effect performance?

 

[WeeJeep2]

Lets say I am 4" off, but over the length of the tongue it isn't too bad---what issues do I really have to consider that may effect performance?

Keeping the hitch on the vehicle as short and high as possible will help with your departure angle. I posted some photos of my set up here

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/116136-New-Lock-N-Roll-Hitch that compare the older and new style L-N-R hitches. Photos show it is still pretty easy to stick the hitch in the ground. It is the point that hits the ground most often on my trips. The vehicle hitch in the photos is also bent down some due to the mentioned very nose heavy trailer. The further back you make the connection the higher the risk that you'll bend your vehicle receiver down in a similar manner. I've since replaced the hitch with a new one.

I'd consider removing the pintle and go with the raised mount to gain clearance if you're headed for terrain with drop offs. My old Montero had a bolt on plate with a simple loop on it that provided a solid recovery point with less projection than the pintle. Something like that could be an option if you don't want to use one of the shackle inserts in the receiver hitch for recovery.

 

[BADDANDY]

This is what my theory gets me; max break-over angle and max frame to ground clearance with an even coupler to hitch, barely enough room to hitch/unhitch, and a gap to allow tailgate to open. My Neon is setup the exact same way. Different trailer, different sized tires = same result.
That being said, a tilted up or down trailer will be OK as long as the CG is correct except you lose rear frame clearance nose up, or you'll lose tongue clearance with the tow vehicle nose low.

 

[MountainD]

I hadn't given the departure angle enough thought, and thanks for that link Weejeep2--it made it pretty clear what I was sacrificing. I'll definitely consider getting a rise hitch and ditch the Pintle. Some of the trails I run do have some steep approach/departure, particularly in Moab--and I already have a hitch mount recovery I can use.

I still don't quite understand why a totally level trailer, assuming no caster/camber issues, causes much of a concern, but that is something that I will still think about because so many people are adamant that way. I wouldn't consider dropping tire size to achieve a lower tongue--that would directly lower the axle height and I routinely position my truck's pumkin's to avoid obstacles that the axle beam can go over, so I definitely want the same (or more) clearance for my trailer's axle, particularly with Colorado's rocks. I even considered going to a Timbren or the like (which I may still do some day) for that very reason.

Cool looking 416, Andy--looks very nice.

 

[BADDANDY]

Cool looking 416, Andy--looks very nice.

Thanks D, it was was a fun build and kept me sane during an unemployment. It was also an easy sell to a friend.

If you're happy with everything but the trailer angle, you could cut off and lower the coupler to under the tongue if tailgate/door clearance isn't an issue. Many military and foreign expo trailers have that option/setup.

 

[MountainD]

I would have had a hard time selling that 416, Andy... even with the pop up I would find a military trailer extremely useful... but I would have had no where to store it so I am sure I couldn't have done both...

Fortunately I have not welded the coupler/hitch on the tongue yet--I am waiting until I get a very close finished loaded height. Even then, it has two holes and I am going to drive it around a little first with just bolts to make sure things are right. And welding a tongue under the tongue was my original plan (see post 7), but after seeing WeeJeeps pictures and doing some sketching, that too robs some of your departure angle so all things being equal, I would rather not now. Worse case scenario is I drop another $130 and try and make some up selling the new straight hitch. I would love to keep the pintle, but it isn't that essential when you boil it all down...

I was jonesing for a 416 before I found the Neon--I absolutely love the Neon, particularly now. Camped all last year in it and this year will be even better