GM 6.5 turbo diesel problems..

[bfdiesel]

You going to do it yourself chilli? Looks like pumps are around $700-$800.

 

[chilliwak]

Seems a bit steep chilli, last pump I had rebuilt (actually was an exchange service) was $400 and change. I believe a brand new stanadyne pump from your GM dealer is under $2000. I think my price was around $1400 CDN with discount. Your diesel shop may be able to get a new pump cheaper than the GM dealer. I cant recall if that includes fuel driver module. And iirc, its around 6 or 7 hours labor by the book.
400k out of a pump sounds amazing, GM used to warranty the pumps up to 200k km because of their problems.
I guess $$$ involved depends if you are doing any other work at the time, obviously need gaskets.
I'd have a real good close look at everything engine related before investing in the pump. Last time I had a pump that was on its way out, I was evading it then popped a head gasket. So now, I couldn't evade the pump issue any longer, so attacked the head gasket issue, sent heads to my local shop for a refresh and found them to be full of cracks. So ordered new heads, gaskets, might as well do injectors, return lines, glow plugs, etc, and the pump. Once it was running great again, the turbo took a dive. So I bought the a team turbo. Then got another couple years no trouble, then I guess we outgrew the truck and needed a back seat.
I guess I am trying to say, a drop in "improved" motor would have been cheaper and easier.
Now that I have no more 6.5, I keep my fingers crossed with my duramax. I'm in way over my head on any sort of repairs it ever might need, I miss the simplicity and economy factor of the 6.5 motor.

Hopefully this hasn't gotten the best of you, and you are still enjoying your summer vacation here in the great white!

My thoughts exactly sir. There is a manufacturer out of the US doing new engines for 10k with all the bugs worked out. I am goint to look at my options and find out what to do. The price the shop qouted me was an install with a new pump and pmd. Said to be a good shop...:ylsmoke:

 

[chilliwak]

You going to do it yourself chilli? Looks like pumps are around $700-$800.

How hard is it to do yourself? I heard you need special tools...:coffeedrink:

 

[1stDeuce]

I did mine myself, replaced with a $400 rebuilt pump that I got off E-pay. Seems like I was told there was a special wrench required, or something like that, but I made do without. On the electronic units, setting the timing requires a Tech II, or similar tool. I got mine to run pretty good by bumping the timing around a little, then eventually checked it with a Tech II. It was pretty close. I moved it a little more, but it didn't make much difference. That was on a '96.

FWIW, the crank in a turbo'd 6.5L won't live forever. Mine busted at almost exactly 300k miles. But my truck was a stick and had a hard life before me. And it was making comparable power to a duramax until I changed out the pump, so that might not have done it any favors either...

 

[1stDeuce]

Chilli, just for S&G, try running a bit of 2-stroke oil in the fuel... I had heard that it can sometimes get you a little more mileage out of a shot IP. ?? Something about thickening the fuel when it's hot... Makes sense if your truck starts OK cold, but not when warm. Pump plungers letting too much fuel slip by... Worth a try for the short term.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Replacing the injector pump is easy. Rebuilding one? Eh, probably best left to the professionals. I believe to rebuild one you need special tools and needs to be done in a sterile environment and blah blah blah. I looked into it and just let a diesel shop do it.

Replacing the engine, a good option are the newer HMMWV 6.5L engines. In 2001 when the 6.5L was discontinued, Uncle Sam still wanted to use the engine in the HMMWV's. So a company called GEP still makes the 6.5L as per 1993 specs. They use an improved block casting from International though, which a lot of the old 6.2/6.5L block problems. So you can technically get a 2015 6.5L and swap it in. You can buy them new or a HMMWV takeout with very low mileage for a very good price. Just putting that out there...

 

[chilliwak]

Replacing the injector pump is easy. Rebuilding one? Eh, probably best left to the professionals. I believe to rebuild one you need special tools and needs to be done in a sterile environment and blah blah blah. I looked into it and just let a diesel shop do it.

Replacing the engine, a good option are the newer HMMWV 6.5L engines. In 2001 when the 6.5L was discontinued, Uncle Sam still wanted to use the engine in the HMMWV's. So a company called GEP still makes the 6.5L as per 1993 specs. They use an improved block casting from International though, which a lot of the old 6.2/6.5L block problems. So you can technically get a 2015 6.5L and swap it in. You can buy them new or a HMMWV takeout with very low mileage for a very good price. Just putting that out there...

Thanks for the info Plethora. This is exactly what I was thinking. Probably much better to spend the money on a good used motor with low mileage then fixing my motor with high mileage. The only problem is that being a Canadian I do not have access to the motors that are on the gov auctions, as I believe you have to be a US citizen to bid and buy them. The new motors are 10k $ if I am not mistaken. Please post any links or info as to these options. You also state that replacing the pump is something that I can do myself. I have replaced heads and done lots of motor work on old school Chevy motors. I am wondering if my skills are up for the job of replacing an injector pump? I am looking forward to feedback. Cheers, Chilli....:wings:

 

[Dratwagon]

Here's a quick read on the 6500

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/06/the-optimizer-6500/

Here is a link to leroys diesel .

http://leroydiesel.com/products/amg-optimizer-long-block/

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Thanks for the info Plethora. This is exactly what I was thinking. Probably much better to spend the money on a good used motor with low mileage then fixing my motor with high mileage. The only problem is that being a Canadian I do not have access to the motors that are on the gov auctions, as I believe you have to be a US citizen to bid and buy them. The new motors are 10k $ if I am not mistaken. Please post any links or info as to these options. You also state that replacing the pump is something that I can do myself. I have replaced heads and done lots of motor work on old school Chevy motors. I am wondering if my skills are up for the job of replacing an injector pump? I am looking forward to feedback. Cheers, Chilli....:wings:

Yes, with an engine with so many miles on it, you gotta ask what else is on it's way out. Being from Canadia, I can see it being difficult getting anything from government auctions. But people buy this stuff in bulk and resell it to anyone. So you can get a used surplus engine from a company or private sale for $2000-$4000. Or you can lay down the big bucks and get one factory direct. Be wary of the turbo HMMWV 6.5's though, they use a center mount turbo like the vans and won't work so good. But a good thing is that those engines and your old 6.5L have all interchangeable parts so you can set it up how it will work for your truck.

Only hard part about changing injector pump yourself is the timing. If you don't have the right timing tools, you can just set the pump to 0 degrees and advance and retard it a few degrees until it runs good. But it would be recomended to get it professionally timed.

 

[PlethoraOfGuns]

Here's a quick read on the 6500

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/06/the-optimizer-6500/

Here is a link to leroys diesel .

http://leroydiesel.com/products/amg-optimizer-long-block/

Yep, that's the new 6.5L the HMMWV's use.

 

[chilliwak]

That optimiser engine looks real nice. Now all I need is 10k$:Wow1::wings:

 

[UrbanCummin]

Like some others have mentioned, you can not rebuild the pump yourself (only a diesel pump shop can), but you can swap them yourself if your handy with cars. One option to consider is that you can swap your pump to a DB4 version, its a all mechanical pump so no more PMD to worry about or encoder issues inside the DS4.

 

[chilliwak]

Some good sugestions here guys, but I got a couple of questiions.
1 How hard is it to change the pump? Do you have to remove the intake manifold to get at the pump? Thts what I have heard as I belive its mounted under the intake. I heard you need special wrenches.
2 What if any change in performance would I feel by changing to a manual pump as opposed to a stock pump with pmd.
3 Does it really py when I am qouted $1600 for high quality pump and pmd with a $2500 to $2800 install at a reputable shop with a garantee.

I would ove to go high budget but honestly folks, the truck might need a year of parking time before I make a decision.:smiley_drive:

 

[Woofwagon]

The pump removal is easy. If memory serves it is driven off a case in the vee of the engine block and held on by three bolts.

 

[chilliwak]

The pump removal is easy. If memory serves it is driven off a case in the vee of the engine block and held on by three bolts.

Really? Let some diesel mechanics chime in here. You make it sound so easy Woof!:wings: