27+ bike

[Stumpalump]

The Klein Palomino I ride is getting old. I've never loved it and have finally realized it's why I don't ride as much. I did a little research and find 29+ size is not common enough yet to persue. Next I go looking at 27+. Tired of derailures I'd like a 27+ full suspension rohloff belt drive. Is that too much too ask? The manufactures make a hundred flavors of everthing but I just want a basic full suspension trail rig with modern wheels and internal hub. Am I off base thinking this should be available or is this what they do today to force you into a custom built bike. I'd like to spend 2500-$4k. Any suggestions on where to look or what I should settle on? Basic rocky Arizona trail bike is what I need. I'd rather not have another XC bike that feels like a road bike but more of a trail bike with a nice size tire. Thanks if you can point me to a bike or know an AZ dealer that can build me a bike.

 

[jayspies]

Well, you're not going to get that particular combo. Gates carbon belt systems are typically paired with an IGH, so yes, that part is ok (though your bike frame has to have a way to get the belt inside the chainstay or seatstay). It's the full suspension part that's not going to work. Full sus frames require a derailleur to accomodate the movement, as the derailleur will flex as the rear swingarm assembly moves. Belt drives have no stretch, and can't be paired with a derailleur, so you're out of luck there, my friend. For a belt drive it's hardtail or nothing.

Have to ask here, why would you want an IGH and belt drive with a trail bike? Notwithstanding the expense, they are typically used for long distance touring where ultimate reliability is a factor, and brother, they ain't cheap. I'd go with any number of other combos. If you want a decently specced full sus trail bike with 27+ wheels I'd personally look at the Salsa Pony Rustler, the new Scott 27+'s, or Specialized newer offerings.

Hope this helps.

 

[jackattack]

You really can't go wrong with any of the "top brand" 27.5" trail bikes. If you don't want the XC feel, look for slacker angles and longer travel 140mm+.

Apparently, Lennard Zinn builds a FS IGH Belt Drive bike, but my guess is it's going to blow that $4k budget by quite a bit. http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/12/mtb/goodbye-to-my-belt-drive-rohloff-bike_252120 The convenient point about a FS belt drive is that you just have to undo a linkage bolt to install the belt. I'm sure most custom FS builders could make this dream a reality, if you want to pay for it. Off the top of my head, Zinn, Ventana, Eriksen, Moots, possibly Steelman, Sycip, DeSalvo.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Stump, we just missed meeting each other at the OJ open house. I was within arm's reach of you, but we missed.

Having owned belt drives and Rohlhof hubs in the past, the pairing of the two sounds like complete crap to me. I wanted to love both, and both came with giant helpings of disappointment. And I can't think of the last time in 150,000 miles of riding when a derailleur failed me to the point I thought that it deserved being replaced by another system. This riding through volcanic sand in Iceland, mud in Alaska, sand on the edge of the Sahara, etc.

Sorry, I just had to champion the chain and derraileur. I see no need to go internal. Besides, anyone who says a belt is without issues, or a Rohlof is free from maintenance or potential failure is pushing a false agenda. Of my two Rohloff systems, both required as much love and care as a derailleur system.

 

[Christophe Noel]

But...you can in the near future pair a IG hub with belts, even on the new Boost hub spacing. I think you're completely nuts to do it, but it can be done. It will be heavy as an anvil and require a mess of cables, but possible. You'll be like that guy trying to fit carburetors on a Prius, but it's possible.

 

[Stumpalump]

Reply all. I have been at this place before. I'd like somthing new but there is not enough change to justify the purchase. I did not think about boost 650 geometry and all that new stuff not being compatible with IH. I could skip the belt but those finicky derailururs I never trusted. They skip and slip at the worst moment and God forbid I need to drop 4 gears really fast as I drop into a ditch that needs to be climbed out of. I thought a Rolhoff would solve that plus adjusting and tinkering will be a thing of the past. Are you saying they are not all that? I'm sure a fresh chain and derailure would help. I'm running an old XT. Are the new ones great for some reason or just new?

 

[p nut]

Lenz has a FS SS/Belt compatible bike: Milk Money. Adding an IGH should be simple (as shown below).

That said, the slow engagement of the IGH would be a deal killer for me. I hate derailers, too. Simple fix for me: Just ride SS.

By the way, Coconino would be a good builder in your area. And Waltworks in Utah as well.

 

[Stumpalump]

Lenz has a FS SS/Belt compatible bike: Milk Money. Adding an IGH should be simple (as shown below).



That said, the slow engagement of the IGH would be a deal killer for me. I hate derailers, too. Simple fix for me: Just ride SS.

By the way, Coconino would be a good builder in your area. And Waltworks in Utah as well.

I never saw that pic but that's the bike I read about that got me fired up for a new bike. I better go read up and youtube that hub since you say it's so slow. I've never ridden one. I blew out a front tire tonight so I'm gonna bring my old junk to Fat Tire bike shop in Carefree for two tires and a chain. 15 bucks for them to adjust the derailur (I know it's easy and have done it) but a second opinion to see if it needs a new one will solve that immediate problem. They have the Salsa bikes Jayspies suggested. New bike fever and the wife says get it but I need to sort it out. Thanks for the help everybody!

 

[Christophe Noel]

Stump,

Many people who have derailleur issues instantly think the remedy is a Rolhoff hub system. The reality is, derailleur woes are rider influenced 99.9% of the time. It's either a neglect to maintain cables and housings, not knowing the hanger is tweaked, or just riding until all of the components are worn. If all of the various elements of a drivetrain are in good condition, there's no reason any system, even a cheap one, can't shift as well, usually far better than, any IGH system.

 

[Stumpalump]

Stump,

Many people who have derailleur issues instantly think the remedy is a Rolhoff hub system. The reality is, derailleur woes are rider influenced 99.9% of the time. It's either a neglect to maintain cables and housings, not knowing the hanger is tweaked, or just riding until all of the components are worn. If all of the various elements of a drivetrain are in good condition, there's no reason any system, even a cheap one, can't shift as well, usually far better than, any IGH system.

That's me. My bike was fantastic when I bought it and now it's wearing down. I was hoping for a stupid simple bike because I have so much junk to maintain that takes fuel that its nice to just go ride without issues. If you say the IH is not great then it's not. My bike with new tires and usable gears will be OK again as long as I don't bomb it down rocky hills.
Dang it... You gave me new bike fever again!

 

[Christophe Noel]

The reality is, whether you're talking about a $200 drivetrain, or a $1500 drivetrain, they both use $3 cables to actuate each shift. Maintaining those cable system is a once or twice a year necessity that takes all of 30 minutes to do, but can have a system shifting flawlessly for thousands of miles until things genuinely wear out. I can put ten thousand miles on shifters and derailleurs before they truly poop out.

Maintenance is easy. It only takes minutes. But...many people would rather NOT spend 30 minutes and $20 replacing cables as needed and instead, buy a new bike for $3000. Go figure.

 

[p nut]

I never saw that pic but that's the bike I read about that got me fired up for a new bike. I better go read up and youtube that hub since you say it's so slow. I've never ridden one. I blew out a front tire tonight so I'm gonna bring my old junk to Fat Tire bike shop in Carefree for two tires and a chain. 15 bucks for them to adjust the derailur (I know it's easy and have done it) but a second opinion to see if it needs a new one will solve that immediate problem. They have the Salsa bikes Jayspies suggested. New bike fever and the wife says get it but I need to sort it out. Thanks for the help everybody!

Here's what I'd do, personally. Purchase a 27.5+ or 29+ FS bike, ride it for a season, and if it's still working for you then, sell it and pursue the belt drive set up you originally wanted. Could save you lots of wasted $$. I still regret buying a full DA Trek Madone, only to find out I didn't like it at all.

 

[Christophe Noel]

I haven't had an shifting issue on any of my bikes in...can't remember. All of them have performed perfectly for the last 20-30 bikes I've owned. I'd probably have to go back to the early 90s before I can remember a bike that had nagging shifting issues and that was likely chain suck.

 

[Stumpalump]

I dropped the bike off at http://www.flattirebikes.com They put the tires they ordered on and tuned it up. The problem was in the bar shifter. They said it was gummed up. It clicked and shifted but I guess since it was gummed up it was causing the problem. I was surprised. Chain was still usable and the derailure was fine. New tires, tubes and tune up was $125 and it works perfect. I jumped on a 29 all mountain Trek and liked it but I'll get one last hooray out of the Klein with my shiny new tires and clean shifters.
Thanks for helping!

 

[Flagster]

I just demo d the new Rocky Mountain Sherpa...really liked it and with a few tweaks It would be a rippin bike...
The tires were a bit "blown out" on the wide rims and the fork was meh...but I really digged the frame graphics and positioning...two water bottle mounts are nice...