Lite weight campers & RVs. Consumers/customers need to push manufacturers....

[Heifer Boy]

Many features that the industry has deemed necessary or required, simply are not and most folks that have long term or "expo"
related travels in mind could easily do without such features in order to shed weight and complexity.


A few items that my build left out, on purpose:

* two propane tanks > I only need one. The camper is insulated so well that even cooking multiple times a day and heating the cabin in sub freezing temps I can run for more than a month on one 20# cylinder.
*wet bath > not needed. We have a chemical toilet for time that we simply cannot or refuse to dig a hole or pee in a bush. "showers" are a simple matter or heating water and sponge bath. which takes us to...
*water heater > For what?? Showers no doubt. Never do you need it for anything else. All it does is add complexity and eat propane
*electric water pump > Nope. Marine grade foot pump = light weight, near maintenance free, and uses no electricity. Cheap too!
*microwave > for what?? Nope, dont need it. Robs too much battery, weighs a ton, and reduces the cabinet space in kitchen
* AC unit > Really? Most of the reason to be or live on the road is for the experience. Experience it, dont hide from it in a conditioned camper!
*large furnace > Nope. Robs tons of 12V, is noisy, and is heavy. We use an old school "gravity" furnace. Super light, near silent, and uses no 12V
*camper jacks > leave them at home. NEVER needed on the road. Just adds weight.
*heated tanks > not needed if built properly. Just adds weight, another 12v draw, and complexity. Keep the tanks within the heated cabin and you never need to heat them. Works 2 fold. Once the cabin and tanks are up to temp the tanks act as large heat sinks to help moderate interior temps.

Amen!!

I couldn't agree more with what you have said here and it is one of the few times I've seen anyone articulate it. The manufacturers are certainly catering to a market but often that market doesn't realise what's it's needs rather than wants. The Australian camper trailer market is going the same way. I believe that people are way over complicating camping these days and this just means everything gets bigger, heavier and more complicated to own and use. Camping used to be about getting away from the day to day and not bringing it with you.

For about the last 10 years I have been reversing this train of thought and have been very much simplifying my home to the point that I really don't have much that is not truly necessary. I'm certainly not a Luddite (worked in IT for about 20 years) and I like luxury and comfort (I do have a Tvan too) but it's about simplifying life. I don't need a mobile phone, a computer, an iPad and a smart TV when I'm camping so why do I need to have duplicate devices at home. The same applies to water and power needs and how you use these resources.

Simple is light on the environment, light in weight and light on the brain.

HB

 

[simple]

Some ponderings on the topic.

It seems like the big rv market demographic is older folks. Retired or semi retired, house paid off or have big nut with enough to chip off and splurge on a rig. They worked hard and are ready to get out before they die. They want luxury and aren't interested in off the beaten path adventure. The rig only has to last 5 years in most cases before there done with it. It was purchased as a sunk cost and is almost a throw away item in the end. This is based on general build quality and what's currently available.

Has anybody looked at these? Sort of like what's being discussed. I think they are in the 10-20k range depending on model. Maybe a good time to drive to Canada and buy one at 25% off.

http://www.spacekap.com/

another Canadian manufacturer
http://www.tufport.com/utility-adventure

 

[fog cutter]

this thread reminds me of my early exposure to the idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEDGXrOglMs

 

[IdaSHO]

Amen!!

I couldn't agree more with what you have said here and it is one of the few times I've seen anyone articulate it.

Glad I could help :sombrero:


Lightweight and simple lends itself to many, many benefits.

 

[Clutch]

Has anybody looked at these? Sort of like what's being discussed. I think they are in the 10-20k range depending on model. Maybe a good time to drive to Canada and buy one at 25% off.

http://www.spacekap.com/
another Canadian manufacturer
http://www.tufport.com/utility-adventure

http://www.cheaprvliving.com/blog/living-an-adventure-in-a-toyota-tacoma-camper/

 

[calicamper]

What happened to Fords partnership with Livin Lite Campers for the new F-150? They were supposed to come out in early 2015. Did it end with Thors purchase of the Livin Lite camper line?

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/news/2016-ford-truck-camper-update-gallery

Still happening apparently. But I wouldn't call these small or light campers

 

[zb39]

We ALL know that the weight we haul around seriously impacts efficiency/MPG.
Weight hauled is a vicious circle. More weight means heavier duty EVERYTHING (truck wise), which weighs more, so on and so on, ad infinitim.....
Yet a lot of the high end manufactures are putting in granite countertops, etc, etc.
I think most of us here are aware of the NEED for light weight everything....that is semi-practical, anyway.
If our little corner of the RV market can push (encourage) the TC builders to trim weight where possible, maybe it can influence the greater RV market....? Then lighter material will be developed to replace the traditional materials. Gota start somewhere.
Kudos to Ford for the push into lighter weight pickups. Maybe this impetus will provide a demand/market for truly LITE truck campers that will not overtax this popular 1/2 ton offering. One can hope, anyway.

Anyhow, at the various RV shows, rallies, sales lots, and FORUMS, if we all talk up LITE WEIGHT products, and show it MATTERS to us as buyers/consumers, it might ultimately matter and be a positive factor.....?

I know the price of fuel is currently down, but it likely will rebound as it always has in the past. Beyond that, RANGE matters, and a fuel tank with more miles in it to explore areas without much fuel availability is a mighty good thing.

This is not a rant, just frustrated with the continued emphasis on LUXURY (consumer driven) instead of very light weight campers/products.
Thoughts?

You answered your own question in the last sentence. Consumer driven. MFG build what they can sell. People want big, high end, and fancy, that equals heavy if it is built at a price point that will sell. MFG tend to want to stay in business, so they build it.

 

[Doc Foster]

A few items that my build left out, on purpose:

*wet bath > not needed. We have a chemical toilet for time that we simply cannot or refuse to dig a hole or pee in a bush. "showers" are a simple matter or heating water and sponge bath. which takes us to...
*water heater > For what?? Showers no doubt. Never do you need it for anything else. All it does is add complexity and eat propane
*electric water pump > Nope. Marine grade foot pump = light weight, near maintenance free, and uses no electricity. Cheap too!
*microwave > for what?? Nope, dont need it. Robs too much battery, weighs a ton, and reduces the cabinet space in kitchen
* AC unit > Really? Most of the reason to be or live on the road is for the experience. Experience it, dont hide from it in a conditioned camper!
*large furnace > Nope. Robs tons of 12V, is noisy, and is heavy. We use an old school "gravity" furnace. Super light, near silent, and uses no 12V

You don't need them, I don't need them, but if I want my wife to come along, then yes I have to have them. Alas, the good old simple days when I used to just sleep in the back of my truck......
Well, maybe I can do without the furnace, that is what i bring the wife for to keep me warm..

 

[Freebird]

ZB39-
Yes, I realize that luxury is where the current MA$$ market is. I think that what I am describing could be built quite PROFITABLY on a smallish scale assembly line producing possibly DOZENs of units per YEAR. What I envision would not be aimed at a "mass market" of thousands per year.
What I am attempting to do here is encourage someone to do a start up, or a company that already is in the business to expand into this niche market. Also to get us "niche mkt consumers" to "weigh-in" on the subject on the forum....

 

[Victorian]

Ok, fair enough. How much would you be willing to pay for a simple insulated slide in camper shell? With simple I mean, no fancy windows, no cabinetry, one door and no jacks.

 

[IdaSHO]

It is still a consideration of mine.

Though I would never build then sell.

They would be 100% custom and built to suit.

 

[fourstringfletch]

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this question too.

Ok, fair enough. How much would you be willing to pay for a simple insulated slide in camper shell? With simple I mean, no fancy windows, no cabinetry, one door and no jacks.

FWC sells their shells starting at $8,300, and that's increasing in Dec. Seems to be the market sweet spot for a quality shell.

 

[Jeep]

FWC is a great niche camper with a lot of the points addressed, it is however a stick built, tin skinned camper. Price is reflective of that.

 

[IdaSHO]

Personally, I think the price for such a unit is very affordable.
It seems to be a great value for what you really get.
A well insulted unit that you can either finish out yourself, run as an empty shell, or something in between.

Although as you stated, at the end of the day it is still a stick framed, aluminum skinned unit.
And Ill say it right now.... I will NEVER have another one skinned in aluminum. For so many reasons.
The only way to go in my opinion is a mono-shell of some sort. And from an insulation standpoint, an aluminum frame is terrible when compared to wood.


To have something similar to my camper, out of wood and glass, would be MUCH more labor intensive, and price would have to reflect that.
To finish the exterior of the shell alone for example would take days, instead of hours.

The way the FWC is built, once the frame sections are welded, they should be able to finish an entire shell one day.

 

[JHa6av8r]

Personally, I think the price for such a unit is very affordable.
It seems to be a great value for what you really get.
A well insulted unit that you can either finish out yourself, run as an empty shell, or something in between.

Although as you stated, at the end of the day it is still a stick framed, aluminum skinned unit.
And Ill say it right now.... I will NEVER have another one skinned in aluminum. For so many reasons.
The only way to go in my opinion is a mono-shell of some sort. And from an insulation standpoint, an aluminum frame is terrible when compared to wood.


To have something similar to my camper, out of wood and glass, would be MUCH more labor intensive, and price would have to reflect that.
To finish the exterior of the shell alone for example would take days, instead of hours.

The way the FWC is built, once the frame sections are welded, they should be able to finish an entire shell one day.

You can finish an FWC with smooth glass sides instead of aluminum. It takes about a week to build an FWC once started and that's a loaded camper not a shell.