3/4 Ton... Dodge or Ford?

[Viggen]

Okay, I am looking into a full size. Never thought thought I would as a full-size is, well, full size but the modern car market seems to be perfectly set up to ignore what I want. So, here is what I have settled on:

- Extended cab, short bed only
- Ford or Dodge as they sport a solid front. Nothing wrong with IFS but it's just cheaper and easier with a solid front.
- Since I am looking for a solid front, I will have to be in the 3/4 and up territory. Now, that's not so bad as eventually a Four Wheel Camper is going to happen.
- If its Ford, gas only. I have no interest in dealing with investing a few thousand additional dollars to fix factory powerplant issues.
- If it's Dodge, I am open to either but lean gas as it is cheaper to maintain and the overall mileage will be lower in my $21k price window.

Why this thread? Looking for feedback. The Ford diesel thread I started was full of GREAT information and I am hoping I might get some more again.
- How is the 5.7 in the Dodge? How about in mileage ranges around 60k? Any known issues?
- Is the 5.9 diesel in around 2007 and up trucks less a hassle than the Ford 6.0/ 6.4?
- How is Dodge build quality (I lean Ford mostly just sure to this)?
- Fords well either have the 5.4 or 6.4 gas motors. How are they in mileage ranges around 60k? Any known issues?
- Mileage per gallon if a wash really so that isn't really a concern and not too terribly far off a V6 powered midsize.

 

[Halligan]

The 5.9 Cummins was used up until 1/1/07 when the new 6.7 introduced. So early '07 trucks had the 5.9 while the 6.7 2007's are generally referred to as 2007.5 trucks. I've owned both a 2008 V-10 F350 and a 2004 Dodge Cummins 2500 and I preferred the Dodge. I prefer Dodge/Ram over Ford even today.

 

[thethePete]

The new 6.7 Cummins is having headgasket issues, and Dodge is notoriously horrible for front ends. I've yet to see one make it to 100,000km without needing almost a whole new front end.

The 6.7 Ford is having EGR cooler issues, but is otherwise stout. Ford front ends are good for 200,000km.

The new Ram Trucks are awefully nice, but for the price of either, and knowing the flaws of both, I would pick the Ford.

If you're not looking at new, then Ford is a 6.2 Gasser, not a 6.4. The 6.4 was the diesel and is a fairly decent motor, the v10 6.4 gasser isn't worth the extra cylinders IMO. The 6.0 was the real problem child. For the minor power increase on the 6.4 gasser, the poor mileage isn't worth it, though it is a smooth motor.

If you're considering Ford, find one with a 5.4 in it. Far superior to the 6.2, or the 6.4. The 6.2 is a pig on gas empty or loaded, and doesn't tow any nicer than the 5.4, which actually nets moderate mileage and responds reasonably well to an Edge programmer to eek out a bit more mileage and improve transmission performance while loaded. Also, the 6.2 uses 2 plugs per cylinder, so you're looking at 16 plugs for maintenance. The 6.4 gasser is relatively problem free, but gets about 6mpg empty or loaded. 5.4s have proven themselves as a pretty robust motor, exhaust manifold studs and early model spark plug breakage (anything you're looking at will have updated plugs, so that's a non issue for you). The 5.4 will also get you double digit mileage even while loaded.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

At a $21K price point, OP's choices will be somewhat limited. My 3/4-ton is a 2005 Dodge Quad Cab short bed Hemi. It has been essentially trouble-free for ten years, best truck I have ever owned, no front end issues. At $21K, I'd look for the best third generation Ram Quad Cab I could find, and I wouldn't shy away from a 3500 if I found one at the right price. Hemi should be fine, but if you find a nice 5.9 CTD, that's even better.

A Ford would be a decent choice if you find the right truck, but Ford guys tend to want too much for their old iron (like Toyota guys). Side by side, same condition and price, I'd take the Dodge without hesitation.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I'm on my second HD Hemi and I couldn't be happier. The only reason I traded my 2004 in was I really wanted a Power Wagon. Had I known when I bought my 04 that the Power Wagon was coming out in 2005, I would have waited and bought that and more than likely still have it today. That being said, I really love my 2012 and I can't imagine trading it in on something else.

 

[kmcoop7]

power wagon

@ $21k you could find a pretty nice used Power Wagon. Then you wouldn't even need to upgrade anything! If I were looking for mid 2000's gas 3/4 ton trucks. That would be my pick. Every once in a while you can even find a PW with a manual.

In my neck of the woods, a 2005-2008 power wagon with a little over 100k on it goes for right around $20k or a little less. I would say the Hemi and the 5.4 ford V8 and 6.8 ford V10 are all robust motors. I bet there is a 50/50 chance one of the gassers would outlast a diesel. The hemi has the bonus of sounding great with exhaust. The ford motors sound like big lawn mowers.

I will say the ford is probably a little bit more reliable in that vintage and has a MUCH bigger back seat(edit, not in extended cab only crew). The power wagon will be far and away the best off road. The hemi is a very reliable motor. I had a 2006 hemi reg cab 2500 for a work truck that I beat the snot out of for 100k in the high mountains of Colorado. I pulled a 16k goose neck over two 10000' passes with it once and the only problem it ever had was a cracked radiator (not while towing). It ran those passes @ 30mph in 1st gear if I recall correctly.

 

[Buddha.]

I've been thinking about making this same thread here.

So far I'm leaning towards a 2005 or newer 5.4 superduty with 4.10's.

 

[tgreening]

Personally I dont think the 5.4 belongs in anything labeled SuperDuty, but that's just me.

To the OP, I'm a fairly big Ford fan, at least for trucks. Platform wise the only thing I'd rethink is the extended cab. I'd go for the crew cab short bed. You're not talking that much additional length but gain a boatload more interior space. I'd say the 6.8 or later, the 6.2. The early 6.8s had some spark plug issues. Later models not so much. I had several of the earlier builds and never had any plug issues at all. Exhaust manifold bolt breakage was an issue with both the 5.4 and 6.8, at least early on. Had both in varying numbers and they all had broken bolts at some point and every single one was passenger side. My 5.4 was in an F150 and mileage was not significantly better than my 6.8s, especially considering the performance difference. Neither one could hold a candle to my 6.0s or 6.4 when it came to towing. They couldn't hold a candle to them repair cost wise either.

You arent doing any serious weight hauling. The buy-in on a diesel, any diesel of any brand, isn't going to be worth it. The odds say you won't own it long enough or drive it far enough for longevity of the engine or fuel mileage savings to ever become a factor. Base reliability aside, the potential repair costs of any of the modern diesels far outstrips that of the modern gassers. If the fuel pump in a 6.8 goes, you replace the fuel pump for relative chump change. If the high pressure fuel pump on a 6.4 diesel goes, not super common but it happens, it's a $12k-$15k bill at the Ford garage because you have to replace the lions share of the entire fuel system. Considerably less if done at a competent independent, but still steep enough to make even a fairly beefy wallet choke.

If you're making money off your diesel, you might be able to stomach that sooner or later you're going to have a repair bill steep enough to cause second mortgages, but for the average guy its probably not a good choice.

And don't buy into the Cummins never breaks myth. I've been in more than one plenty busy Cummins repair center. I had a power company lineman show up at my shop to repair a feed line I burned off one of their transformers, driving a spanky new Dodge. Questions ensued of course and he said they'd had to replace the engines in 3 new trucks the past year.

They can all have their issues.

 

[Viggen]

Thanks for all the feedback. Super informative, as always. Diesel is pretty much a last option. The cost to maintain versus what I get is not worth it. Add increased oil, cost per gallon, additives, filters, etc... and the gas model comes out ahead for me.

The PW is not really an option. That's a huge truck. I am locked in on an extended cab. I have a two car front bumper to back bumper style drive and that extra length means my wife's Outback will not be able to squeeze in without blocking the sidewalk in front of the house. I also just don't need the extra length as it's three people and a Beagle. It would make trails and things out here just that much harder to navigate.

The way I'm reading it is it's personal choice then. Differences are slim with any of the gas motors being good choices. The sight advantage goes to Dodge for having albeit small rear doors whereas Ford uses suicide doors in the rear.

Dodge has had their cylinder on demand in the Hemi motors for a bit. Did that make it onto 2500 models?

Comments about power are important but not too much. I am sure the 5.4 will treat me well. It's a truck, not a rocket ship so as long as it can move a little faster than my old BJ60 could, I'll be fine. Both Dodge and Ford came with 5 speed autos, correct?

 

[kmcoop7]

The power wagon is the exact same wheel base as other dodge crew/shoet bed and a ford with an extended cab and shord bed. 140". You are making a mistake if you count the power wagon out. Check your numbers.

 

[Viggen]

The power wagon is the exact same wheel base as other dodge crew/shoet bed and a ford with an extended cab and shord bed. 140". You are making a mistake if you count the power wagon out. Check your numbers.

The full four door short bed is the same size as the extended cab short bed? I somehow doubt that. Does that mean that the short bed on the 4 door is dimensionally much shorter than the short bed on the extended cab? There is more to size than wheelbase. Do they just hang three feet over the axles?

 

[As Scooter]

I am a Ford guy, and love the 6.2. The mileage isn't exceptional, but I have found the actual motor to be exceptionally reliable. I have 25 trucks with that engine. I had one that blew a head gasket, at relatively low miles. That was it. No alternators, quite a few AC units for repair, no transmissions.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

The PW bodies are identical to any other Dodge in the same body style, the overall length is the same, and last time I looked, the wheelbase is the same. If overall length is an issue for you, go for a 3G rather than a 4G. The 3Gs are more trail friendly and are more likely to be found in your price range. Number of trans speeds in the autos varies by year. Six-speed manuals were available on the 3G PWs (very scarce), but I don't think there were any 4G PWs with manual. I know a guy with a 4G Cummins 6-speed 3500, but it's not a PW. There were never any diesel PWs sold, and there was only one known CTD prototype (shown at Moab). The diesel intercooler would interfere with winch placement on the PW and that required hanging the big winch on a big winch bumper, and that weight and leverage, combined with the weight of the CTD, made the truck less suitable for mud, sand, and snow. Ford guys would never notice the difference in the mall parking lot, but the Dodge guys are smarter. The advantage to you of the 3G PW is that you get a Warn 12K winch on a factory-engineered mount that puts the whole thing hidden behind the bumper, and that improves weight distribution and minimizes overall length. The 3G Quad Cab gives you a very usable back seat without making the truck overly long. FWIW, my PW has a cab-high shell on it, and the whole thing fit under a Suburban car cover until I added the roof rack. And you get locking axles on both ends, limited slip in the rear, disconnecting sway bar, lots of articulation and a 2" factory lift that will run 35s with no mods. Some guys run 37s on their 3gs with no mods other than a little trimming of the fender lips.

Fords are OK if you can't find a Dodge.

 

[sdwhip]

The full four door short bed is the same size as the extended cab short bed? I somehow doubt that. Does that mean that the short bed on the 4 door is dimensionally much shorter than the short bed on the extended cab? There is more to size than wheelbase. Do they just hang three feet over the axles?

As said by others the Power Wagon is the exact same size as the other Dodge 2500/3500s since they only come in short bed. The only issue you may run into is that Dodge/Ram does not have an extended cab. Up to 09 you have the quad cab option which acts as a crew cab, it's only slightly larger than an extended cab but much better in the way of room and door opening. 2010 to current you can only get reg cab or crew cab so you will have to accept that or stay 09 and older for Dodge. Maybe the Mega Cab is what you are thinking of that is so much longer. To answer your other question the MDS was/is not available on the 5.7 Hemi, it is now available on the 6.4 Hemi but that is a newer and more expensive truck than you are looking for.

As far as the front end goes, they all need to be rebuilt as some point and it's not cheap so go with upgraded parts when the time comes. My buddy had two Super Duties (08 and an 11) that had to have bearings/steering redone before 120,000 miles and cost $3500+ for repairs. I'm a Dodge guy and know plenty Ford owners that have needed costly repairs, Ford owners know Dodge owners that are stuck with costly repairs. It's funny the way that works. The truth is they are both great trucks......but get a Dodge and post pictures of it because I like looking at them better.

 

[Viggen]

To clear up extended cab, this is what I am looking for:
Dodge:

vs.

Front end components are good things for me to look at but something I consider to be wear components for eventual replacement. The longevity of trans and motor is a bit of a larger concern to me.