Ram V6, Gearing and bigger tires

JMyerz

Adventurer
I've got the latest Pentastar V6 in my RAM with 3.21 gears, it was too good of a deal to pass up in 2014. Now I'm trying to nail down a plan. Not building this for a wheeler (been there done that) but more of an "overland" or gravel grinder chasing surf and fly fishing holes. Already found I need a bit more clearance and aggressive tire than what's provided.

So, anyone have experience with running a 33 or 34" tire on the V6 Ram 1500? I'm told it's a PITA to re gear but I've also read its no different than any other truck, so can this be done? I can't imagine I'd need more than 3.92s

Thanks!

Justin
 

RoyJ

Adventurer
I don't have a Pentastar, but do have a Hemi 3.21 truck with the same 8 spd ZF. I would recommend MAX 33" tires.

My truck came stock with 33s, and while the Hemi pulls 8th no problem, it would downshift on the slightest hill. It also can't go into 4 cyl mode in 8th. This is exactly what I wanted, as I do a lot of hwy miles with this truck.

But if I had two less cyl, then I'm not sure how functional 8th would be. You're probably limited to flat cruising above 65 mph. And with 34s you would definitely want to re-gear.
 

p nut

butter
JMyerz - Are you sure you need 33 or 34" tires for an "overland gravel grinder"? I would think even 32" would do just fine, which would also result in better MPG and power than bigger tires. Maybe a small lift to get you the clearance is all you need.
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
A friend and I were talking about the issue of gear ratio and 8-speed transmissions recently. Our conclusion was that the axle ratio doesn't matter as much with more speeds, because you can just limit what it uses as high gear. You may effectively only use 6 of the 8 most of the time, but even at 6, that's much better than when you only have 4, with a steep OD ratio, like we used to have. Even with my Dmax, when I tow, I usually limit my truck to 5th instead of 6th. Keeps shifting to a minimum, and usually results in the same mileage, without putting so much stress on the engine/trans.

That said, I will side with p nut that putting a larger tire on a truck with a V6 and 3.21 axles seems a little counter-productive in terms of power and efficiency... I also think you may be shooting a bit high on tire size.

Limit the size bump to one over stock, and put a very mild lift (1-2") on it. That'll keep the speedo fairly accurate, and allow you to retain the stock wheels without rubbing, which saves you $$ and keeps the truck driving nice. If you have a rear LSD, it'll also be more effective with a tire closer to stock size, as will stability and traction control.

Use tire pressure to your advantage when the going gets soft. Even with the OE size tires, if you air down properly and drive smart, you're VERY unlikely to get stuck. (Driving smart pretty much means not getting it crossed up in sand. Keep to the more level route.) When you get back to the highway, air up. A little $30 "high volume" compressor from HF has served me well for several years now. (To save time, I don't usually air all the way up, I just air up to a safe level, and use a real compressor at the next opportunity.)

If you use the truck for a while and find that you really do need bigger tires, it may also be apparent at that time that your v6 Ram isn't the right vehicle anyway, and then you can move to something more appropriate for more difficult offroad use. ??

My $.02.
Chris
 
Last edited:

RoyJ

Adventurer
A friend and I were talking about the issue of gear ratio and 8-speed transmissions recently. Our conclusion was that the axle ratio doesn't matter as much with more speeds, because you can just limit what it uses as high gear. You may effectively only use 6 of the 8 most of the time, but even at 6, that's much better than when you only have 4, with a steep OD ratio, like we used to have. Even with my Dmax, when I tow, I usually limit my truck to 5th instead of 6th. Keeps shifting to a minimum, and usually results in the same mileage, without putting so much stress on the engine/trans.
Chris

What's even more interesting about the Ram, is the ratio spread between 3.21 and 3.92 is almost identical to the internal gear ratio spread of the 8 speed ZF.

I've done the calculations on Ramfoumz, and at any given road speed, a 3.21 truck in 7th is almost the exact same rpm as a 3.92 truck in 8th. If the 3.21 truck is in 4th, then the 3.92 truck can match it in 5th. And so forth.

What this means is that if you're willing to lose 8th gear, then a 3.21 truck essentially drives like a 3.92, just with 7 available speeds. The ZF's 1st gear is so deep, that even with 3.21, you'll have no problems taking off with 35 or even 37 inch tires. It's essentially like the pre-2013 truck with a 5.029 rear axle...
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
Exactly what my friend and i were thinking, though we were talking about GM trucks, and we didn't actually do the math. Nice work!
 

JMyerz

Adventurer
I think your spot on with your thinking and thanks for the info. My question would be what would one size up be, I've got essentially a 31.8 tire on there now stock. Would a true 33 be too much of a jump? I do have a LSD and reality is I traded in my hardcore Jeep wheeling days for surfing, flyfishing and family. I don't see us getting THAT remote in the near future but who knows.

Right now I'm thinking a 1.5" Level kit and 275/70R18 (33.2x10.8) General Grabber. Think that's overshooting it?

A friend and I were talking about the issue of gear ratio and 8-speed transmissions recently. Our conclusion was that the axle ratio doesn't matter as much with more speeds, because you can just limit what it uses as high gear. You may effectively only use 6 of the 8 most of the time, but even at 6, that's much better than when you only have 4, with a steep OD ratio, like we used to have. Even with my Dmax, when I tow, I usually limit my truck to 5th instead of 6th. Keeps shifting to a minimum, and usually results in the same mileage, without putting so much stress on the engine/trans.

That said, I will side with p nut that putting a larger tire on a truck with a V6 and 3.21 axles seems a little counter-productive in terms of power and efficiency... I also think you may be shooting a bit high on tire size.

Limit the size bump to one over stock, and put a very mild lift (1-2") on it. That'll keep the speedo fairly accurate, and allow you to retain the stock wheels without rubbing, which saves you $$ and keeps the truck driving nice. If you have a rear LSD, it'll also be more effective with a tire closer to stock size, as will stability and traction control.

Use tire pressure to your advantage when the going gets soft. Even with the OE size tires, if you air down properly and drive smart, you're VERY unlikely to get stuck. (Driving smart pretty much means not getting it crossed up in sand. Keep to the more level route.) When you get back to the highway, air up. A little $30 "high volume" compressor from HF has served me well for several years now. (To save time, I don't usually air all the way up, I just air up to a safe level, and use a real compressor at the next opportunity.)

If you use the truck for a while and find that you really do need bigger tires, it may also be apparent at that time that your v6 Ram isn't the right vehicle anyway, and then you can move to something more appropriate for more difficult offroad use. ??

My $.02.
Chris
 

JJEH

Member
I think your spot on with your thinking and thanks for the info. My question would be what would one size up be, I've got essentially a 31.8 tire on there now stock. Would a true 33 be too much of a jump? I do have a LSD and reality is I traded in my hardcore Jeep wheeling days for surfing, flyfishing and family. I don't see us getting THAT remote in the near future but who knows.

Right now I'm thinking a 1.5" Level kit and 275/70R18 (33.2x10.8) General Grabber. Think that's overshooting it?

I wouldn't worry too much about the 33" tires. 285/70-17 (basically a 33") is the biggest Dodge has equipped their Ram's from the factory and you should be able to mount them w/o any issues.
Yes, you'll lose a couple MPG but that's it.

Regarding the level-/lift kit you might wanna be careful since many 4x4 will have issues with the half shafts in the front.

Mine is a 4x2 and I have a Supreme Suspensions 3/2 inch lift with Pro-Comp ES9000 shocks and so far (knocking on wood) no issues at all.
Rims are Visionwheels D-Window in 8x17 with 285/70-17 Nitto Terra Grappler G2.
Love it!

12552624_690183444456891_7429364074460778177_n.jpg
 

JMyerz

Adventurer
JJEH, Do you have the V6?

I wouldn't worry too much about the 33" tires. 285/70-17 (basically a 33") is the biggest Dodge has equipped their Ram's from the factory and you should be able to mount them w/o any issues.
Yes, you'll lose a couple MPG but that's it.

Regarding the level-/lift kit you might wanna be careful since many 4x4 will have issues with the half shafts in the front.

Mine is a 4x2 and I have a Supreme Suspensions 3/2 inch lift with Pro-Comp ES9000 shocks and so far (knocking on wood) no issues at all.
Rims are Visionwheels D-Window in 8x17 with 285/70-17 Nitto Terra Grappler G2.
Love it!

12552624_690183444456891_7429364074460778177_n.jpg
 

Ducky's Dad

Explorer
Since your truck has two diffs, regearing will not be cheap. My Dodge is an '05 PW on 35's with the Hemi and 4.56s, and it used to hunt for gears constantly in the hills and mountains, to the point that it was irritating. Mine is not an 8-spd, but it sounds like you may be experiencing similar issues. I found that adding an Edge programmer made a world of difference in the driveabilty of my truck, because the base program (87 Econo Tune) tells the truck to hold gears longer, and it just gets better when you step up to Level Three on the program, still running on 89. My son had a V6 Jeep and he added a programmer with similar results. A side benefit for you would be a bit more power and torque to turn taller tires.
 

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