$5k SUV Showdown: '91 Burb,' 01 Burb, V10 Excursion

[mad_science]

Wanted some insight on an upcoming purchase choice. I just sold my '69 Wagoneer because I've got enough classic car "fun" going on between my '64 Falcon DD and '62 Ranchero LeMons car that I don't need my tow rig/family dirt wagon to also be a classic. Want something with CA, OD and easier-to-replace parts.

Here's what I want, functionally:
-Tow pretty big stuff (7-10k) a few times a year (say, enclosed race trailer + tools + gear) without too much drama. More frequently tow lighter stuff (2.5k car on rented uhaul trailer) without a second thought.

-Roadtrip with 2 kids plus gear in relative comfort in any weather: high heat, snow.

-Ease of maintenance. This can be either things that break but are cheap and easy to fix or things less likely to break. Intend to own pretty much forever so long as it's doing its job.

-Mild to moderate offroading. Best defined by not having to stress if the dirt road to the campsite is snowy, muddy or rutted. Not likely to go looking for trouble.

Here's what I'm looking at:
'91 Burb 2500. 350, 4l80e. 220k, had engine and trans replaced a dealer (not sure when). Overall vibe of a very well cared for vehicle. All dealer parts, everything works, etc. 4 or 6" lift and 35" H2 takeoffs. Could get for $4500.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5561703305.html

'01 Burb 2500. 6.0, 4l80e, 173k. In good shape (but not as fanatically maintained as the 91). No eng/trans rebuilds yet. Already has some accessories I'd add (roof rack, brake control, etc). Probably about $6000.
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/cto/5568299171.html

'00 Excursion V10. Haven't had a chance to call the guy yet, but here's the ad:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/5580352322.html

A few irrational notes:
--I just like the '91 better. Like the classic body style, solid axles and greater cheapness/simplicity. I'd like to think some day I'll just swap an LS or HT383 into it to make up for the somewhat wheezy 350.
--I'm more worried that the newer ones are going to hit end-of-life type issues on misc. electronic modules that cost $400 each to replace.
--I'm weighing these concerns against being more of an adult and getting the '01 that's better engineered, better driving/stopping/towing/towing etc.
--I don't really like Ford mod motors or orphan motor lines, so I'm wary of the V10. Not sure how well founded that concern is.

 

[rayra]

I already can't get many factory parts for my '85 C-10. The '91 is only 6yrs / 1? (eta 2, really) gen newer. Thinking about finally selling it off, after 30yrs. Let it be some other Optimist's hobby.

'99 Tahoe Z-71, then an '05, and bought the '02 Sub ~18mos ago. All 1500s, 4L60E, 5.7 in the '99, 5.3s in the other two, lots of varied use, moderate towing, about 375k mi all three combined, have been great performers and cheap to keep. And parts are currently plentiful and cheap. Definitely go with the 2500 / 4L80E, but the specific rig you mention might need a new trans the first time you haul that heavy load.

V-10 Excursion, don't know a thing about their drivetrain / towing performance.

 

[mad_science]

I already can't get many factory parts for my '85 C-10.

Out of curiosity, what's not available? Or do you mean OEM parts, i.e. not aftermarket?

 

[ExplorerTom]

V-10 Excursion, don't know a thing about their drivetrain / towing performance.

It's an F-250 with more body panels. Should tow well.

 

[Bojak]

Had an 1989 crew cab (square body) and built it up over 5 years. Once it was done, it still wasn't anything my family wanted to load up for long trips in. We genuinely loved it. My kids still give me a hard time for selling it. But sell it i did and I bought a 2000 gmc crew cab (gmt400) . We just get in it and go. I gave up a d60 up front and a lot of cool points. It needed lots of things fabed or modified to work. Manufacturers don't support vehicles that old very much, at least not in terms of offroading. The next generation I bought is a light year jump in comfort. The change in platform from square body to the next is when auto makers started adding lots of insulation and sound deadening. It is really so much more comfortable. Rides better, more parts availability, real fuel injection compared to previous gen, and IMOP the last body style that stands a chance of being a classic. As far as the Ford goes........it has a hand pad center of tailgate for when you are pushing.

 

[Gfp Sean]

the ford v10 is a solid motor. much like a ford 460 v8, itll tow all day and not break a sweat. youll pay at pump. the 350 will get similar mileage loaded and or towing.
th transmission is the 4r100r, its not a bad tranny, needs to be set up for what your doing to keep it alive for 100's of thousands of miles. (the 4r100r in my expedition went almost 300k without a rebuild)

the suspension is where this shines also, super duty suspension is well represented in the aftermarket world. endless really.

solid axles and they are built strong. good towing capabilities . its a good choice among others. get fancy and swap in a zf-6 manual and have a great rig. I personally am not a fan of ifs chevy's. torsion bars are garbage in hd trucks as much as in light trucks.
those v10's when taken care of can be rowdy. they are very smooth also.:sombrero:

 

[Rickbfried]

I'd fly up there from Southern Cal in a New York minute and buy that Excursion if it had 4wd. Even if not, I'm still thinking of sniping it away from you.

 

[rayra]

Out of curiosity, what's not available? Or do you mean OEM parts, i.e. not aftermarket?

OEM, some trim parts and interior fittings, various bushings. The Left / Right fuel tank switch (which I had to scrounge from a junk yard). Carburator parts. Emission evap cannister with the right fittings, had loads of trouble a few years ago trying to pass smog / get an exemption with a canister with three hookups and an emission hose set with four lines, one capped (as per the instructions with the part).

As a 'project' vehicle in a less stringent emission state, it would be a good choice. No major damage, suspension and drivetrain in good shape and the whole thing is pretty much rust free. Somewhere free enough to do whatever you want with the engine.

 

[Martinjmpr]

That '91 may "only" be 25 years old but the underlying design of the square body dates back to 1973. As a "collector" or project vehicle I could see it but no way would I want something that old, that heavy, that noisy or that outdated as any kind of road trip vehicle.

 

[Tiki]

Hold out for a GMT800 2500 suburban

 

[RoyJ]

Hold out for a GMT800 2500 suburban

? He IS looking at a GMT800 'Burb...

 

[mdmead]

My vote would be for the Excursion. The IFS on the newer GM is a red flag for me if the truck is going to be worked off-road as I've read the parts wear quickly and they don't stay aligned. I've got a V-10 in a 99 Super Duty and I'm sitting at about 173,000 miles with no real issues. These engines routinely run 200K+ miles without a rebuild. Note the Ford modular engines can blow plugs and when they do, you need to have a special insert installed and isn't an easy trail fix. (They do have kits though.) I lost my first plug after 170K miles, but there is no telling when it might happen. (I drove mine about 50 miles to the repair shop so technically it isn't a show stopper.) The Excursion has a solid, heavy duty suspension and will tow happily. Lots of upgrade parts for Super Dutys (and Excursions).

 

[tgreening]

I'd have another Excursion in a heartbeat if I were after another SUV. You can comfortably seat 8 people and still haul a butt load of gear AND tow a respectable load. I pulled an 8500# camper up and down the Eastern states and up through West Virginia and Virginia was no sweat, though you have to be good with listening to that V10 rev at 4000+ rpm. It'll do that and like it, but it's not quiet about it.

Don't expect to do much better than about 14 mpg on the highway, but it can be done without too much trouble. Doing a lot worse can be done as well, with just as little trouble. Have to keep your throttle foot under control.

Sold mine with about 150k on it as I recall. Most expensive thing I had to replace was a COP (coil on plug) and that was only as bad as it was because I was on the road and had it done at the nearest dealer.

It's a solid reliable motor known for longevity. Solid super duty powertrain with plenty of support and some absolutely rabid fans over on the FTE site. IFS might give a nicer ride, but I'll take a solid front any day of the week in a truck meant to work.

That model year will net you 310 HP and 425 TQ. Five Star tuning has a solid rep for doing much for the V10/ 4R100 performance curve.

I've had that powertrain in 3 different rigs, 2 Excursions and 1 F250. Nothing bad to say about any of them.

 

[mad_science]

Thanks for the info guys, has been helpful.

I'm surprised at how crude/old people are saying the '91 is, but my perspective is pretty skewed due to my own history of classics and/or pretty crude 4x4s.

Either way, I'm lining up test drives with the '91, GMT800 and Excursion over the next week or so to get real in-the-metal experience with each.

 

[mad_science]

Just test drove the '01.

On the whole: thoroughly adequate. It would do the job just fine, but didn't find myself with a huge "I must have it!" response.

• 6.0L + 4L80e makes good but not impressive power
• Rear discs are a nice touch
• Steering and suspension felt pretty tight (especially for 173k)
• Seats are nice thrones from which to rule the road

My biggest fear with the early-2000s vehicles I'm looking at are miscellaneous electronic gizmos crapping out. Those fears appeared well founded with this example.

• After parking and re-starting the fuel gauge read dead-empty despite having 3/4 tank. Once we backed out of the parking spot it snapped back to life.
• The driver's seat lumbar air compressor runs for a solid 1-2 minutes when starting the car. Probably a leak or control issue there.