Lift rods vs GAP?

Alex M

Observer
I been looking through some of the various threads on the subject, but I am still unclear on if there will be a difference between lifting my LR3 with the GAP tool or with lift rods. I do not have either at the moment. I know sometime in the near future I will be getting the GAP tool, so should I avoid getting lift rods?

On a side note, does anyone have any input on the Llams. Does it provide anything unique compared to the GAP tool?
 

MrWesson

Adventurer
I been looking through some of the various threads on the subject, but I am still unclear on if there will be a difference between lifting my LR3 with the GAP tool or with lift rods. I do not have either at the moment. I know sometime in the near future I will be getting the GAP tool, so should I avoid getting lift rods?

On a side note, does anyone have any input on the Llams. Does it provide anything unique compared to the GAP tool?

Skip the lift rods and head straight to the gap tool.

I have mine set at max and I clear 32" tires with tons of space left. I could fit 33's if it wasn't for the width.

Lift rods are a rip off IMO. You can make some yourself with 1/4" threaded rod, a hack saw and some silicone in less than an hour.

Lifting the vehicle is just 10% of the benefit of the gap tool and I couldn't imagine not having my LR3 without one.
 

DiscoNels

Adventurer
I've got all 3 myself (IID Tool, Johnson lift rods, and the LLAMS system, and a Nanocom Evo too). I started with Lift Rods, then lowered with my Nanocom when I wasn't off-roading for daily driving so I could leave them on but one of my sensors was so far out in the values that I couldn't lower it any lower thus making an IID tool or Nanocom type tool worthless for lowing (in my case, but this could work the other way around for someone trying to raise the vehicle depending on their values). There are limitations to how far the sensors will allow a vehicle to raise or lower based on the values it's reading.

I now have the LLAMS installed and LOVE IT. No more rods, No more diagnostic tool, just turn a knob and go. Highly recommend the LLAMS, but if your drive a modern Rover you will also need a diagnostic tool like the IID or Nancom for routine troubleshooting in daily life and you'll save yourself a ton of money the DIY way.
 

jh.

ambitiose sed ineptum
Have the rods in my RRS. When used with the RSW tool, it's a pretty cheap but effective package. Incredibly easy to install.
 

ColoDisco

Explorer
I have the rods, came with them when I bought it. I do like that the Johnson rods are metal vs the weaker factory rods. I also have the RSW software on a 7" hp tablet which resides in my smaller glove box with its own USB charge port.
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I like it however it is a bit cumbersome to use vs the gap iid tool. I will probably get the gap iid tool as well but what I have works.
 

Ian_Barry

Observer
Alex,

I would start with a GAP Tool. It's an invaluable resource with the additional benefit of helping you lift the truck.

I currently run rods and a GAP lift; this combination allows me to fine tune my lift a little more. I too have a sensor that limits my lift.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that the value is there on the rods at retail prices, but they are often available at discount/used. In fact I think there is a set of the Proud Rhino rods for sale by Scott Brady on ebay/sale section.

Cheers,

Ian
 

zelatore

Explorer
As some of the guys above, I have all three. Johnson Rods, GAP iiD tool, and LLAMS.

First I started with the GAP tool. You need one - period. Not for lifting, though it can do that, but for diagnostics and general maintenance work. If you own a modern Rover and have even the slightest interest in doing something beyond driving to the mall you get it. As for lifting with it...maybe. Each vehicle will be able to achieve a different amount of lift with it so be wary of those who say it's all you need. It might be, or you might be like me (and others) who find that the calibration of their particular sensors won't let them get very much lift without exceeding sensor range. I forget, but I think I could only add around 1.75" using the GAP tool alone.

I run Johnson Rods full time with 33" tires and appropriate trimming. Could you make your own rods? Sure, but it's not going to be some ten minute job- it's going to involve a lot of trial and error to get them to the correct length. They are an incredibly simple thing - the Johnson Rods are simply a stiff piece of wire with rubber bushings in each end. Obviously they cost pennies to mass produce so yes, they are making a killing on them. But you know what? I'm fine with that. They did the r&d to come up with thea product and they sell them for what the market will bare. It's still not a huge cost for you and it's the easiest lift you'll ever install. Pair this with the GAP tool's abilities and you can fine-tune your ride height to exactly where you want it.

I installed the LLAMS tool more recently. It's a bit more involved but the on-the-fly capabilities appealed to me and at the time the exchange rate was favorable so I did it. So far I'm not using it to it's full potential as I haven't revised my setup and I can't run at lower heights anyway with this tire but I do use it to lower my ride height when on the highway and may toy with running it alone w/o the rods in the future. it's a little expensive, a little harder to install, and a little less convenient if you have to take the truck to a dealer for service (have to install a null plug) but on-the-fly adjustments are very nice.
 

Alex M

Observer
Alex,

I would start with a GAP Tool. It's an invaluable resource with the additional benefit of helping you lift the truck.

I currently run rods and a GAP lift; this combination allows me to fine tune my lift a little more. I too have a sensor that limits my lift.

Furthermore, I'm not sure that the value is there on the rods at retail prices, but they are often available at discount/used. In fact I think there is a set of the Proud Rhino rods for sale by Scott Brady on ebay/sale section.

Cheers,

Ian

Funny you mention the Proud Rhino rods for sale. It was that sale that prompted me to start this thread. $25 is an awesome deal. Can you explain what you mean about having both allows you to "fine tune"?
 

Alex M

Observer
As some of the guys above, I have all three. Johnson Rods, GAP iiD tool, and LLAMS.

I installed the LLAMS tool more recently. It's a bit more involved but the on-the-fly capabilities appealed to me and at the time the exchange rate was favorable so I did it. So far I'm not using it to it's full potential as I haven't revised my setup and I can't run at lower heights anyway with this tire but I do use it to lower my ride height when on the highway and may toy with running it alone w/o the rods in the future. it's a little expensive, a little harder to install, and a little less convenient if you have to take the truck to a dealer for service (have to install a null plug) but on-the-fly adjustments are very nice.

What is a null plug? How does having the LLAMS tool installed effect dealer service? Thanks for all the feedback!
 

zelatore

Explorer
RE: fine tuning the ride height.
The Johnson Rods are a fixed lift; basically 2.5" over whatever height setting you're using. The GAP tool lets you adjust your height in any increment up/down but on some vehicles you'll run out of electronic adjustment on the sensors and not be able to achieve the same amount of lift as the rods. By having both, you can get the full 2.5" lift but say you only wanted 2" or you wanted 3" - just leave the rods on and use the GAP tool to adjust up or down 1/2". Fine tuning.

RE: Null plug.
The LLAMS tool installs into the stock wiring harness and 'intercepts' the signals from the height sensors, reads them, then sends the computer an adjusted signal based on how you have the LLAMS set that results in lift/lowering as needed. However if you were to take the truck to a dealer and they plugged in their diagnostic computers to work on the suspension it would give all sorts of errors. The null plug is basically a blanking plug that takes the LLAMS system out of the loop and lets it run as stock without making you remove the whole thing. You would only use it when a dealer was trying to talk to the computers, say to put it into tight-tolerance mode for an alignment or other service.
 

SteveMfr

Supporting Sponsor
Hi guys,
Wow. I saw this thread yesterday, but I was on my way out the door at the office and had no time to respond: now Don (zelatore) has done a wonderful job of explaining the differences. Thank you! And thanks to everyone else for the positive feedback!

I have been meaning to write something like this for a while, so here is a quick recap and some points to ponder. I have tried to keep it as objective as possible, but I am from GAP Diagnostic :coffeedrink::

Lifting with the IIDTool

Cons
- as has been mentioned, due to tolerances in the height sensors and pre-programmed limits within the EAS ECU, you may have as much as much as 60mm (approx. 2") of lift available or as little as 30mm (a little more than 1").

Pros
- There are 2 major advantages to the IIDTool on the trail:
1. if you have an intermittent issue that causes the EAS ECU to drop the suspension to the bump stops (hard fault) such as repeated "out of range" faults from a height sensor or a compressor overheat, etc., the fault can be cleared with the IIDTool and normal suspension operation resumed
2. if you have a permanent issue with the air suspension that causes the ECU to drop the suspension, you can control the compressor and valves manually using the Service/Test function and enter the EAS into build mode to stop the ECU from making further changes to the system until it is repaired. The procedure is outlined in our FAQ under "can I manually control my air suspension?"
- The IIDTool has 3 memory slots for individual height settings (so that you can have a street setting, an offroad setting, and a 3rd setting of your choice) as well as a "restore original settings function". Not "on the fly" like Llams, but a height change only requires plugging the IIDTool in, navigating to "my settings 1,2,3", and hitting "enter". Takes less than 30 seconds.
- The IIDTool requires no installation.

Lifting with the Llams or its Italian counterpart Anitas

Cons
- Requires somewhat involved installation
- No EAS diagnostics (fault read/clear)
- Price (the Llams is slightly less expensive than an IIDTool BT, the Anitas slightly more (but it has a nicer set of switches, IMO...). And the IIDTool is a full diagnostic system for LR - see more info below)

Pros
- no height limits imposed by electronics
- "on the fly" adjustability (this is the factor that makes the units an interesting option)

Lifting with Rods

Cons
- Requires installation
- No EAS diagnostics (fault read/clear)
- No adjustability without deinstallation

Pros
- no height limits imposed by electronics
- price (least expensive option to lift a LR with EAS)

Points to ponder...

- The single biggest factor that has put Land Rovers amongst the best 4x4s in modern times is articulation. Off-roading successfully is about keeping all 4 wheels on the ground. The stock suspension has an optimum amount of compression (upward suspension travel) and droop (downward suspension travel) designed in. The more you raise an EAS equipped LR, the less droop you have available. I've not experimented a great deal with the LR3/4 platform, but on my L322 Range Rover, at 50mm lift in off-road height I have next to no droop left. Once you hang a wheel in the air, you are relying on the vehicles electronic aids for traction and the vehicle is inherently more unstable. 35" tires and a 4" EAS lift is only good for showing your cojones in a parking lot. For a larger lift, you need to make major alterations to the suspension.

- The combination of rods and an IIDTool gives you unlimited lift capability (adjustable rods - not Johnson) and full diagnostic capability in roughly the same price category as Anitas or Llams (and I still consider this to be an objective opinion :p ). Of course, in contrast to Anitas or Llams you do not have "on the fly" adjustability. Making height changes require stopping the vehicle and take about 30sec.
 

ColoDisco

Explorer
I will add that the RSW software allows adjustability of the suspension and diagnostic capability of the major systems including a data logger. It is also the cheapest option of all the systems out there. But again a little cumbersome to use on a 7" tablet due to the interface being a limited size.
Total cost for my setup was about $270.

http://www.rswsolutions.com/index.php/range-rover-mkiii/mkiii-all-comms?id=540

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00N...p+7+tablet&dpPl=1&dpID=41k1kCT4XRL&ref=plSrch
 
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SteveMfr

Supporting Sponsor
There is an enormous difference in functionality between the RSW Solutions Allcomms and the IIDTool. Hence the price difference. We are not getting rich... If you add about $150 to the costs of your setup, you can purchase a non-BT IIDTool.

To raise or lower the air suspension with the Allcomms, one still has to do a full calibration with measurements, etc. and then subtract or add to the measurements to raise or lower, correct? And with the rest of the functions as well... Comparing the Allcomms to the IIDTool is a bit like comparing the calculator with 4 simple functions to a smartphone. Plus the support we provide, etc. Costs...

I don't mean for this to sound negative as I've known Storey Wilson (virtually) for some time. He's a good guy. But there is a price difference for a reason (and the IIDTool is still very inexpensive for what it does). But you are correct in pointing out that an electronic lift can be achieved with the Allcomms. And BBS Faultmate. And the OEM IDS/SDD and Autologic (I believe that is all though).
 
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zelatore

Explorer
Steve just mentioned one 'feature' of the GAP tool that is often forgotten - customer support. Those guys are AMAZING at helping resolve issues.

As mentioned, if all you want is a lift the GAP tool seems expensive. But it's not a lift tool, that's just a small side bar to what you can do with it. Some people think it's just an OBD2 reader and again think it's expensive, but again, it's much more than just a code scanner. If you have even the slightest inclination to work on your Rover yourself, or plan to do any sort of back-country travel at all, you really should have one. It really will pay for itself.
 

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