COOPER DISCOVERER - Trying to enter the Maze of Canyonlands ending in failure

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Had a great time + got some awesome pictures + came back safely in one piece = Not a failure.
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You made a smart call turning around after losing a tire. You know those stories about people who die in the desert? They usually start out with one poor decision followed by another.
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I camped at Panorama Point in 2008, and like you I had the whole area to myself. "Majestic" doesn't even adequately describe it.
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I was solo, too. I had thought about going down the Flint Trail switchbacks but when the ranger asked me if I had chains (I didn't) he said he wouldn't recommend it and I decided to heed his recommendations. BTW I was there in late March and it was gorgeous, I would highly recommend Spring/Fall as the best time to be in the Maze. I'd love to go back.
 

pmatusov

AK6PM
I was going to ask that too, that kind of rock damage to a tire, and all the jumping you mention; happens mostly when running full pressure.
???
I have never had a puncture or damaged a sidewall while running 40-45 psi. I did several when I aired down to 20.
This sidewall failure is clearly not a blowout, but a flexed sidewall cut on a protruding rock or ledge.

That said...
Great trip and great photos. This can be a pretty unforgiving land and it has to be taken seriously - you did the right thing.
 

Desert Rat 1

Adventurer
It all depends on the type of wheeling and type of terrain you're driving, but that's Jeeping, or maybe I should say Off-roading 101 and it applies from backcountry/overlanding driving to rock crawling. You mostly air down because you get more traction, but there are also more positive side effects of airing down beyond more traction. By making the tire more malleable, the sidewalls will more likely flex around a sharp rock or root instead of being punctured. Another nice side effect of lower pressure is comfort. Having the tires softer allows them to absorb a significant amount of the undulation of the trail, and makes the trail much more enjoyable to drive.


[video]https://youtu.be/h3N5jvVIrxA[/video]
 
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Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
It all depends on the type of wheeling and type of terrain you're driving, but that's Jeeping, or maybe I should say Off-roading 101 and it applies from backcountry/overlanding driving to rock crawling. You mostly air down because you get more traction, but there are also more positive side effects of airing down beyond more traction. By making the tire more malleable, the sidewalls will more likely flex around a sharp rock or root instead of being punctured. Another nice side effect of lower pressure is comfort. Having the tires softer allows them to absorb a significant amount of the undulation of the trail, and makes the trail much more enjoyable to drive.

It's particularly important in areas like the Maze where rock ledges of 6" = 10" are everywhere. Seriously, every time you go up or down a hill it's like descending or ascending a staircase. Slow speeds + soft tires is a big help.
 

pmatusov

AK6PM
It all depends on the type of wheeling and type of terrain you're driving, but that's Jeeping, or maybe I should say Off-roading 101 and it applies from backcountry/overlanding driving to rock crawling.
Thank you for the lesson. I've been itching to take an off-road driving class.
 

pluton

Adventurer
Good report, nice photos. That place has been on my list for a while now.
Agree with the others that the trip looks like it wasn't exactly a failure...more of a 'change in plans'.
Note about tires: You mentioned that these were the tires that came with the truck. All the new Toyotas(It is a Tundra?) I've ever seen come with P-rated, "fake all terrain" tires. P-rated officially designates "Passenger car" but I always say it stands fro "Paper-thin" side walls. Your preferred BFG AT/KOs would have been a better choice. Also, seems like a vehicle the length of yours could use a bit of suspension lift for crossing terrain this challenging.
 

Kerensky97

Xterra101
It's particularly important in areas like the Maze where rock ledges of 6" = 10" are everywhere. Seriously, every time you go up or down a hill it's like descending or ascending a staircase. Slow speeds + soft tires is a big help.
I aired down to 20psi. I usually go down to 15psi when rock crawling around Moab but these Goodyears have flexy sidewalls, 20psi gave the same sidewall bulge 15psi did on my old BFGs so I didn't want to go lower and risk sidewall damage, funny considering it happened anyway.

I'd still reccomend airing down the same amount, like Martinjmpr said it helps to smooth the constant small rocks and ledges, gives you tons of grip on slickrock, plus you float over deep soft sand like a boat cruising on perfectly still water. Just watch your speed and be patient. The sidewall tear was 100% my fault getting impatient and hitting the rocks with a little too much speed. I didn't think it was bad enough to cause damage but if I'd slowly crawled over the ledge instead of hitting it at idling speed the tire would be fine.

Lesson learned: The Maze doesn't get much traffic so it's going to be bumpy and slow. Just resign yourself to the fact you'll be moving at walking speeds and be thrown all over the cab of your vehicle for hours on end. Better to schedule more time driving slow than to rush things and suffer trip ending damage.
 

Kerensky97

Xterra101
And thanks to everybody on the kind words about the photos. I'll updated the bottom of the powet post with a map showing the trip route and full photo album geotagging.
 
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Regcabguy

Oil eater.
Very nice pics. I hate bugs. We were in southern Utah last in late April a few years ago. pleasant temps and zero bugs.
Thank you.
 

Kmrtnsn

Explorer
I aired down to 20psi. I usually go down to 15psi when rock crawling around Moab but these Goodyears have flexy sidewalls, 20psi gave the same sidewall bulge 15psi did on my old BFGs so I didn't want to go lower and risk sidewall damage, funny considering it happened anyway.

I'd still reccomend airing down the same amount, like Martinjmpr said it helps to smooth the constant small rocks and ledges, gives you tons of grip on slickrock, plus you float over deep soft sand like a boat cruising on perfectly still water. Just watch your speed and be patient. The sidewall tear was 100% my fault getting impatient and hitting the rocks with a little too much speed. I didn't think it was bad enough to cause damage but if I'd slowly crawled over the ledge instead of hitting it at idling speed the tire would be fine.

Lesson learned: The Maze doesn't get much traffic so it's going to be bumpy and slow. Just resign yourself to the fact you'll be moving at walking speeds and be thrown all over the cab of your vehicle for hours on end. Better to schedule more time driving slow than to rush things and suffer trip ending damage.

What does it say on the sidewalls of those Goodyears? What is the tire size? Does it start with "P"?
 

Kerensky97

Xterra101
What does it say on the sidewalls of those Goodyears? What is the tire size? Does it start with "P"?
Goodyear Duratrac M+S LT275/65R18 Load Range E
I thought the E series was 3 ply sidewall but elsewhere on the tire it says "Sidewall 2 Polyester"

I just got the truck in early spring and they were brand new on it. Still had the little "hairs" from being in the casting mold, so the tread is still pretty deep, I'm sure they'll last another couple years. Personally I'd like them to be about 1-2 inches bigger but at least they're A/T with a good tread pattern. I haven't been in much mud with them but they should dig in all right, I'm glad they're not road tires.
 

Kmrtnsn

Explorer
Goodyear Duratrac M+S LT275/65R18 Load Range E
I thought the E series was 3 ply sidewall but elsewhere on the tire it says "Sidewall 2 Polyester"

I just got the truck in early spring and they were brand new on it. Still had the little "hairs" from being in the casting mold, so the tread is still pretty deep, I'm sure they'll last another couple years. Personally I'd like them to be about 1-2 inches bigger but at least they're A/T with a good tread pattern. I haven't been in much mud with them but they should dig in all right, I'm glad they're not road tires.

I was thinking they might be P rated, as many pickups come with P rated tires instead of LT tires to provide a plus ride and increase mileage by a sliver. On the Jeep forums the Duratracs are both reviled for their weak sidewalls and universally praised for their soft ride and excellent traction over a wide variety of surfaces, sometimes in the same breath. When it is time for a change you might look at the Falken A/TW3, a hybrid A/T tire with a snowflake rating.
 

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