2000 Suburban K1500 budget low lift with 37"s
- Thread starter CrazyDrei
- Start date
Bret+famx7
New member
I can't wait to see if you get the mid travel sorted out. I'm looking at purchasing a SUV hopefully before winter and due to my large family of 7 in pretty much limited to a Suburban or an Excursion. I've mainly looked towards am Ex simply because the kind of stuff you're doing to yours hadn't been done to my knowledge. I want 35s with minimal lift for ease of entry for the kids but more ground clearance and travel than any Suburban kits offer without going sky high. Your build is exactly what I needed to see! Keep it up!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Mekcanix,
Thank you. It's a representation of life: there are challenges, adventures and shortfalls however in the end it's the journey that you made that counts!
I have more entertainment coming up soon.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Coilover carnage!
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AFP coilovers held up really well, much better than I ever expected them to with all the torture I have put them through. Over a 1,000miles of Death Valley trails this spring was enough to discourage all of my off-roading buddies to stop coming out with me because the damage to their trucks was way more than they ever expected, all the while the Sub held up more or less OK.
After the coil shear destroyed my drivers side coilover I started to hear some sounds from the front suspension that I did not particularly like so I pulled the coilovers out, temporarily replaced the torsion bars and in the process of re-creating a new front end: new ball joints, bushings, hubs, brakes and longer coilover setup.
Here is the damage that was done with 1,200# coils, QA1 DS401 shocks and AFT brackets during my six months of blasting through the desert at mach 10.
Upper brackets held up really good, only some cosmetic paint chips and wear from the bolts. Drivers side bracket is on the left, passenger side bracket is on the right.
Another angle of the wear. AFP's welds are pretty stout and if I was not upgrading to longer travel I would keep this setup but weld the brackets in addition to the bolts.
1/4" steel is the key here, brackets would not have lasted or survived if 3/16" steel were to have been used. BTW top brackets and mounting bolts are for sale, PM me if you are interested. I have no use for them since I am in the process of making new upper brackets.
Lower baskets did not do nearly as well. Passenger side bracket on left and drivers side bracket on the right.
Paint chips and cosmetic wear and tear in this pic.
Passenger bracket took a beating on the left, with the centering cross bar bent. Drivers side is not as bad even though that was the side that had the catastrophic coil bind failure a two months ago.
Overall AFT coilover brackets have stood up to my unnecessarily harsh abuse and I will be keeping the lower brackets for my new coilover setup. Upper brackets did way better than the lower however I will not be using them anymore and if anyone wants them they are for sale with mounting bolts, PM me. QA1 shocks on the other hand did not do as well, mostly due to user error while blasting through the desert until something finally broke.
Drivers side DS401 shock that sheared in Death Valley.
For the money QA1 is pretty darn good, however their customer service and warranty is absolutely horrid, I contacted them several times and two months later have not had a response. The product is decent but expect to purchase new ones even in an event of a catastrophic failure since QA1 does not respond to emails or phone calls.
This is the replacement drivers side DS401 shock that has been on for two months. I have a 1" QA1 bump stop and tall top hats.
Other side of the new drivers side shock that has been on for two months. Even with the bump stop and tallest top hats that QA1 makes the angles of the shock travel relative to the attachment point on the lower control arm and the top bracket the shock body still rubs on the top hat.
Passenger shock after 6 months, not too bad however I still managed to destroy the metal bearing, which must have been a defective product to start with.
Bearing is so loose that light shines through it. Not sure how that happened, but I did drive the truck pretty hard.
Top of the passenger shock after 6 months. Top hat was rubbing on the shock body despite the bump stop. So that's a 1,200# coil over 4", 4,800# per side, or 9,800# of load on the front end of a 6,000lbs truck. I drove the crap out of it. So I either need to slow way down, get firmer coils, increase the travel or all of the above.
Other side of the passenger side shock body after 6 months. notice the threads on the bolt have silver aluminum residue. That's because the impact from the abuse twisted the threads inside the top shock eyelet and when removed the threads seized and had to be forced off.
Inside of the passenger eyelet after 6 months of abuse.
This is what you can expect if you run the AFP coilover brackets at 100% for six months. Under everyday driving this setup is phenomenal and should provide years of trouble free operation. Street driving and drag racing will not come anywhere close to the off-road abuse I put this setup through. Most reading this and considering AFT coilover conversion for off-road will not be disappointed. I would recommend 1,000# coils for a daily driver and 1,200# coils for at least 50% off road use. I am keeping the lower brackets for my future setup. However if anyone wants the upper brackets with mounting bolts, 1,000# coils or 1,200# coils, they are for sale.
Bottom line, one week with the torsion bars in the the truck and I already miss the coilovers especially when I make turns and fear for my life with the cranked torsion bar cause excessive pitch, yaw and body roll.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
PRESS Ctrl F5 to reload the page if the images do not load the first time around.
AFP coilovers held up really well, much better than I ever expected them to with all the torture I have put them through. Over a 1,000miles of Death Valley trails this spring was enough to discourage all of my off-roading buddies to stop coming out with me because the damage to their trucks was way more than they ever expected, all the while the Sub held up more or less OK.
After the coil shear destroyed my drivers side coilover I started to hear some sounds from the front suspension that I did not particularly like so I pulled the coilovers out, temporarily replaced the torsion bars and in the process of re-creating a new front end: new ball joints, bushings, hubs, brakes and longer coilover setup.
Here is the damage that was done with 1,200# coils, QA1 DS401 shocks and AFT brackets during my six months of blasting through the desert at mach 10.
Upper brackets held up really good, only some cosmetic paint chips and wear from the bolts. Drivers side bracket is on the left, passenger side bracket is on the right.
Another angle of the wear. AFP's welds are pretty stout and if I was not upgrading to longer travel I would keep this setup but weld the brackets in addition to the bolts.
1/4" steel is the key here, brackets would not have lasted or survived if 3/16" steel were to have been used. BTW top brackets and mounting bolts are for sale, PM me if you are interested. I have no use for them since I am in the process of making new upper brackets.
Lower baskets did not do nearly as well. Passenger side bracket on left and drivers side bracket on the right.
Paint chips and cosmetic wear and tear in this pic.
Passenger bracket took a beating on the left, with the centering cross bar bent. Drivers side is not as bad even though that was the side that had the catastrophic coil bind failure a two months ago.
Overall AFT coilover brackets have stood up to my unnecessarily harsh abuse and I will be keeping the lower brackets for my new coilover setup. Upper brackets did way better than the lower however I will not be using them anymore and if anyone wants them they are for sale with mounting bolts, PM me. QA1 shocks on the other hand did not do as well, mostly due to user error while blasting through the desert until something finally broke.
Drivers side DS401 shock that sheared in Death Valley.
For the money QA1 is pretty darn good, however their customer service and warranty is absolutely horrid, I contacted them several times and two months later have not had a response. The product is decent but expect to purchase new ones even in an event of a catastrophic failure since QA1 does not respond to emails or phone calls.
This is the replacement drivers side DS401 shock that has been on for two months. I have a 1" QA1 bump stop and tall top hats.
Other side of the new drivers side shock that has been on for two months. Even with the bump stop and tallest top hats that QA1 makes the angles of the shock travel relative to the attachment point on the lower control arm and the top bracket the shock body still rubs on the top hat.
Passenger shock after 6 months, not too bad however I still managed to destroy the metal bearing, which must have been a defective product to start with.
Bearing is so loose that light shines through it. Not sure how that happened, but I did drive the truck pretty hard.
Top of the passenger shock after 6 months. Top hat was rubbing on the shock body despite the bump stop. So that's a 1,200# coil over 4", 4,800# per side, or 9,800# of load on the front end of a 6,000lbs truck. I drove the crap out of it. So I either need to slow way down, get firmer coils, increase the travel or all of the above.
Other side of the passenger side shock body after 6 months. notice the threads on the bolt have silver aluminum residue. That's because the impact from the abuse twisted the threads inside the top shock eyelet and when removed the threads seized and had to be forced off.
Inside of the passenger eyelet after 6 months of abuse.
This is what you can expect if you run the AFP coilover brackets at 100% for six months. Under everyday driving this setup is phenomenal and should provide years of trouble free operation. Street driving and drag racing will not come anywhere close to the off-road abuse I put this setup through. Most reading this and considering AFT coilover conversion for off-road will not be disappointed. I would recommend 1,000# coils for a daily driver and 1,200# coils for at least 50% off road use. I am keeping the lower brackets for my future setup. However if anyone wants the upper brackets with mounting bolts, 1,000# coils or 1,200# coils, they are for sale.
Bottom line, one week with the torsion bars in the the truck and I already miss the coilovers especially when I make turns and fear for my life with the cranked torsion bar cause excessive pitch, yaw and body roll.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
autism family travels
Active member
What were the conditions that caused the failure...how "trophy truck" were you going? I want these for my rig, but I am planning off road adventures. Loaded with gear etc.
XJLI
Adventurer
JD fab and TTD both make actual long travel kits that can take all kinds of abuse.... you're going to keep finding the limits that others already know about until you end up doing it right.
If you're on a budget, keep the torsion bars, get new UCAs and run slightly longer smooth body shocks and call it a day.
If you're on a budget, keep the torsion bars, get new UCAs and run slightly longer smooth body shocks and call it a day.
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Bret+famx7,
I have not seen anyone do what I have to my truck and actually drive it either, makes this story and adventure more exciting and fun!
Both Suburban and Expedition are great vehicles I was in the same situation as you five years ago and was faced with similar decisions. Best thing about the Exy is that you can fit 37" tires with minor fender trimming and no lift, pretty cool. Exy has more room than the Sub and also weights 1,000-2,000lbs more, ouch. My biggest problem was the price, I paid $4,100 for the Sub five years ago with 100k miles on the clock. Same year, same miles 5.4 excursion would have cost $8,000, V10 Excusrion was $7,000 and diesel excursion was over $20k!!! So I pretty much saved $16,000 on the price of the vehicle, saved over $5,000 in repairs, and get virtually the same MPG as a diesel Excursion by going with the Suburban.
To fit 35"s on the Sub you have to do a 6" lift whether its a diff drop or body spacers and torsion bar crank. To fit 35s on a 4x4 excursion you just put them on and drive. Both are great trucks but the Suburbans are much more readily available and the parts are cheaper. If you plan on mostly highway driving with an occasional fire road get the Excursion. If you plan on doing 4x4 low trails get the Sub and you really want to crawl on technical off road trails, pick up two 4-door Rubicons.
Looking forward to see what you get and what kind of adventured you get yourself and your family into.
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
4BT,
Don't even think about it, the AFP coilover brackets and Viking or QA1 or FOX or King shocks will be the absolute best upgrade you do to your truck and will never even think about going back.
Spring rate calculator for custom coilovers
Good luck!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
Burbinkojack,
I ran a lot of serious 4x4 Jeep trails in Death Valley kinda fast. As fast as I can go while keeping the ride smooth enough for my 2year old and 3 year old to sleep in the back of the truck and I always carry approximately 1,000# of camping and survival gear as well as tools in the truck on every outing.
Steele Pass Rd which is 35ish miles I ran in one hour and 15 minutes. I waited for my buddy in his built Tacoma with 4" lift and 33s for over three and a half hours to catch up because he physically could not go any faster.
Lippincott Rd also in Death Valley, 7 miles, going up hill I waiting for a built 3rd gen 4 runner and a Jeep for nearly 45 minutes to get to the top.
When I busted my shock on Saline Valley Rd I was passing enduro riders in the whoops at 65-70mph.
I run 15psi in the tires and the 37s just roll over all the obstacles effortlessly so I am able to turn two or three day, 500+mile off road trips into day trips.
I run excessively fast which causes lots of wear and tear on my truck, however the Jeep was replacing shocks every other trip including destroying a pair of Rubicon shocks. 3rd Gen 4runner replaced the ball joints twice, UCA bushings twice and LCA bushings once this summer from the same trails the Sub has been running weekly.
It's really hot in the South West right now so I am taking the time to replace some of the worn parts in the truck to make the Fall adventuring more fun.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
XJLI,
First of all no one out there has tried and successfully created a reliable and comfortable mid or long travel setup for a GMT800 truck. JDF, TTD and Camburg all have disposable single use/race long travel kits that will require you to purchase a new frame after every 1,000miles of off road you put on their kits. They are all $4,500-6,000 and that's not even including the shocks. If you can justify spending double the value of the truck on just a front suspension for everyday driving you are insane.
All the the above kits have solid bushings which will rip all the mounting points strait out of the frame. Factory rubber bushings disperse the load of the suspension so that the frame lasts longer. I have not seen a single GMT800 truck out there that's not on the race circuit with a long travel kit as a daily driver, they don't exist because they are too high maintenance. Show me some pictures and add a couple links to prove me wrong.
Why get new UCAs? They will change the factory angles and make the truck more dangerous to drive. DOM tubing of the same diameter as the cast UCA is much weaker and will break every time I hit the trail, so I can not justify paying more for an inferior product just because it looks pretty or some aftermarket parts manufacturer said I should get it.
Smooth body shocks, yes, the performance gained from them will make even the the dreaded torsion bars ride acceptable.
Here is my plan for the front end:
New longer travel DS701 shocks and 2.5" 750# coils. $400
Custom top coilover top brackets similar to JD fab, but at least twice as strong to handle my abuse. $100
Shave and move factory bump stops up 1-2" which would give me 3-4" of upward wheel travel. $20
Remove front sway bar. $0
Make heim joint outer tie rod ends. $50
This would keep the factory suspension geometry and increase the front wheel travel to approximately 12" all for under $600. Which is still less than the JD fab top coilover brackets.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
XJLI
Adventurer
Uh, what? How is a long travel kit going to require a new frame every 1000 miles? That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Solid bushings won't rip anything out of the frame, ever, so long as your suspension is designed properly. I daily drove a built XJ for a while with deaver coils and leafs as well as custom valved 2.5 9100s because it was BETTER for daily driving and wheeling. It made more sense to buy once, cry once than do it all over 100 times.
Binding radius arm suspension on a solid axle with all solid mounts? Yea, that will break mounts off, which is why every one of those types kits sold has a set of rubber bushings in it for deflection. The only place where solid bushings an heims are higher maintenance are over on my side of the country, where rust develops quickly and seizes up exposed joints. You guys don't have that issue, just a little silicon based lube every oil change and you're all set.
Why get new UCAs? Dude, you changed the factory angle when you lifted the truck... the new UCAs correct that. And DOM weaker that cast? This just keeps getting better...
At least we can agree on the shocks, but you're saying you are over driving an overweight truck and want to buy shocks without remote resis? If you are going as fast as you say you are, you are overheating those QA1s to the point where they are losing half of their damping ability in 15 minutes.
You are definitely living up to your name, my dude. But if it works for you, have at it.
That first paragraph is bologna. While certain components may require additional maintenance checks, they are certainly not throw away kits that are after 1,000 miles. If you hear of people getting fewer miles out of those kits, it’s likely due to their own lack of maintenance and just driving it like it’s a race truck but with stock service intervals.
New UCA’s fix the angles that are now wrong from the cranked torsion bar lift which save ball joints from premature explosions in the middle of nowhere Death Valley, like that coil over of yours that snapped and could have been way worse. DOM is definitely not weaker than those stamped uppers on there now when properly constructed. I don’t know where you are getting that misinformation from, but tell them to go away.
That front end plan is great and all, except one thing. It’s impossible to get that much travel out of the stock cv axles without ripping them apart. Also, your stock control arms will bind before you get there.
I like where your heads at, but without new control arms on top and bottom, and new cv axles, it’s impossible to get where you want to go.
Other than that, love the build, love the adventures!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
CrazyDrei
Space Monkey
New hubs and brake upgrade.
PRESS Ctrl F5 to reload the page if the images do not load the first time around.
I have been noticing way more wobble coming from my front end. Wheels wobble at 60-65mph. I rotated the tires front to back and there is no change in the wobble. Wheel bearings are a common problem on these trucks as well as the ball joints will need some attention and probably replacement. And since I am literally tearing my entire front end apart completely this would be a good time to upgrade to the GMT900 front brakes that have been sitting on my shelf for several months collecting dust.
List of all the parts used for the install:
$65.56 shipped for two hubs and ABS speed sensor wires!
$63.77 GMT900 front rotors
$139.68 GMT900 front brake calipers, brackets and brake pads.
$203.45 SHIPPED FOR GMT900 front brakes!
$229.95 for GMT900 front calipers, brackets, brake pads and cross drilled and slotted rotors
This is my start, stock GMT800 rotors and calipers. I used to buy $95 shipped for 4 rotors and sets of pads on eBay but the cheap crap would only last 6-8months and I had to resort to the cheapest AutoZone brake pads to fill in the groves on the scorched rotors. 18month or so ago I went all ot and spent $115 shipped on a set of OEM spec Callahan rotors and ceramic pads and sadly the pads are at 50% of their life and the rotors have more than 75% left. It was sad to remove and retire a well crafted part that has proven itself against the test of time.
250k miles on the original hubs, pretty impressive. There is a tiny bit of play in them, not enough to worry me but I decided to replace them anyway.
Clean and easy install, only three 18mm bolts which are easily accessible. Apparently GM's 4wd hubs have not changed since the 1980s and I had to swap out the plastic clips from my old wires onto the new ones. I removed the CV joints completely to pull the hubs off, this made the job so much more pleasant. Antiseize on the outer CV flanges will guarantee an easy removal if needed at a later date.
And like magic the caliper brackets bolt on perfectly, I did remember to use loctite on teh bolts so I don't loose my brakes like I did sometime last year on a trail. Note that the brake pads on the GMT 900 front brake pads are asymmetrical, outer pad in the picture above is rounded along the inner hub side, the inner pad is flat along the inner hub side. Outer pads fit both inner and outer spot, but the inner pads only fit on the inside. I learned that lesson the fun way six months ago when I did this for the first time on a friend's truck.
Caliper is on, goes on with a 3/4" wrench and a 19mm socket, none of that Torx55 stuff the GMT800s had.
Another angle of the new GMT900 caliper.
New caliper on the left and old caliper on the right, not too much bigger but larger pistons and slightly larger caliper.
Old and new rotor and caliper installed. Sorry for the off angle first picture kinda makes the GMT800 setup look puny compared to the GMT900 setup.
I have taken my front end apart so many times that it took less then an hour per side or under two hours start to finish for both sides with hand tools. Realistically 2 hours per side for anyone doing it for the first time.
Bleeding the brakes was a pain, the bleeder screws on the new calipers were loose and drew air into the calipers, I should have just swapped them out from the old calipers. Once I realized that the bleeder screws were sucking air into the calipers I wrapped the threads with teflon tape and was able to bleed them more or less to be acceptable to drive. Ordered some speed bleeders too so I can flush and bleed the brakes myself. Will finish flushing and getting all the air out completely when the speed bleeders arrive.
CORRECTION
Dorman 12702 (M10-1.5 X 33mm) front for GMT800 and GMT900
Dorman 12706 (M10-1.0 x33mm) rear for GMT800 dual piston
Russell Speed bleeders 639580 front GMT800 and GMT900
Russell Speed bleeders 639560 rear GMT800 dual piston
I paid $16.58 for 4 shipped. the prices change hourly, if you keep an eye out for them long enough you will find them for under $20.
Since there was air left in the system I pulled the ABS fuse so I don't wreck while everyday driving until the speed bleeders arrive.
I was too tired to do the ball joints, those will be covered when I get around to them next week, but they were really loose and the wheel wobble was due to the worn ball joints.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
PRESS Ctrl F5 to reload the page if the images do not load the first time around.
I have been noticing way more wobble coming from my front end. Wheels wobble at 60-65mph. I rotated the tires front to back and there is no change in the wobble. Wheel bearings are a common problem on these trucks as well as the ball joints will need some attention and probably replacement. And since I am literally tearing my entire front end apart completely this would be a good time to upgrade to the GMT900 front brakes that have been sitting on my shelf for several months collecting dust.
List of all the parts used for the install:
$65.56 shipped for two hubs and ABS speed sensor wires!
$63.77 GMT900 front rotors
$139.68 GMT900 front brake calipers, brackets and brake pads.
$203.45 SHIPPED FOR GMT900 front brakes!
$229.95 for GMT900 front calipers, brackets, brake pads and cross drilled and slotted rotors
This is my start, stock GMT800 rotors and calipers. I used to buy $95 shipped for 4 rotors and sets of pads on eBay but the cheap crap would only last 6-8months and I had to resort to the cheapest AutoZone brake pads to fill in the groves on the scorched rotors. 18month or so ago I went all ot and spent $115 shipped on a set of OEM spec Callahan rotors and ceramic pads and sadly the pads are at 50% of their life and the rotors have more than 75% left. It was sad to remove and retire a well crafted part that has proven itself against the test of time.
250k miles on the original hubs, pretty impressive. There is a tiny bit of play in them, not enough to worry me but I decided to replace them anyway.
Clean and easy install, only three 18mm bolts which are easily accessible. Apparently GM's 4wd hubs have not changed since the 1980s and I had to swap out the plastic clips from my old wires onto the new ones. I removed the CV joints completely to pull the hubs off, this made the job so much more pleasant. Antiseize on the outer CV flanges will guarantee an easy removal if needed at a later date.
And like magic the caliper brackets bolt on perfectly, I did remember to use loctite on teh bolts so I don't loose my brakes like I did sometime last year on a trail. Note that the brake pads on the GMT 900 front brake pads are asymmetrical, outer pad in the picture above is rounded along the inner hub side, the inner pad is flat along the inner hub side. Outer pads fit both inner and outer spot, but the inner pads only fit on the inside. I learned that lesson the fun way six months ago when I did this for the first time on a friend's truck.
Caliper is on, goes on with a 3/4" wrench and a 19mm socket, none of that Torx55 stuff the GMT800s had.
Another angle of the new GMT900 caliper.
New caliper on the left and old caliper on the right, not too much bigger but larger pistons and slightly larger caliper.
Old and new rotor and caliper installed. Sorry for the off angle first picture kinda makes the GMT800 setup look puny compared to the GMT900 setup.
I have taken my front end apart so many times that it took less then an hour per side or under two hours start to finish for both sides with hand tools. Realistically 2 hours per side for anyone doing it for the first time.
Bleeding the brakes was a pain, the bleeder screws on the new calipers were loose and drew air into the calipers, I should have just swapped them out from the old calipers. Once I realized that the bleeder screws were sucking air into the calipers I wrapped the threads with teflon tape and was able to bleed them more or less to be acceptable to drive. Ordered some speed bleeders too so I can flush and bleed the brakes myself. Will finish flushing and getting all the air out completely when the speed bleeders arrive.
CORRECTION
Dorman 12702 (M10-1.5 X 33mm) front for GMT800 and GMT900
Dorman 12706 (M10-1.0 x33mm) rear for GMT800 dual piston
Russell Speed bleeders 639580 front GMT800 and GMT900
Russell Speed bleeders 639560 rear GMT800 dual piston
I paid $16.58 for 4 shipped. the prices change hourly, if you keep an eye out for them long enough you will find them for under $20.
Since there was air left in the system I pulled the ABS fuse so I don't wreck while everyday driving until the speed bleeders arrive.
I was too tired to do the ball joints, those will be covered when I get around to them next week, but they were really loose and the wheel wobble was due to the worn ball joints.
Stay tuned for more shenanigans!
Last edited:
XJLI
Adventurer
..Yea, solid links cause more wear, thats obvious but they aren't ripping your frame in half going through the mcdonald's drive-thru. No one in this thread is getting into real long travel IFS and trailing arms. The bolt on, "OEM-style" mid travel kits available for 4wd GMT800s and 900s are exactly what we are talking about here.
Lighten up, Francis.