I'm considering a non dd, second or third vehicle for fun times. I'd like to spend as little as possible and get the best value. I'm open to 73-87, gmt 400-500, maybe gmt 800. I don't necessarily need to tow, but it's not a daily driver and I'd like that as an option for the future if the particular vehicle is right. I'm wondering what you guys suggest as far as models, years, engines and trannys go. I'll do some work myself and have a trusted mechanic to check things and take care of bigger stuff. What kind of problem things do I need to look for in my inspections? Thanks.
Full size GM suggestions, suburban or pickup.
- Thread starter borison
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rayra
Expedition Leader
I think I cover your whole range 
What State are you in, what sort of emissions regimen do you have to comply with? I ask because you listed the older vehicles (too), you looking for a non-electronic vehicle in particular? If that's not a particular issue I have to recommend the GMT800s. I think they're really in a sweet spot in terms of availability, price, condition and support in the parts / aftermarket. I already have a good bit of trouble getting some parts for my '85 C-10. Keeping the small block chevy running is easy, it's the emissions, fuel tank switch, stuff particular to the vehicle that is a problem.
There are a great many topics here from GMT800 owners, if you can search them out there's a wealth of info in them. As for what to look for, on the older trucks look fro frame cracking near the steering box, especially on 4wd variants. The LS/LM7 Vortec motors, there are a few things tha tcome with age / high mileage / rough environments, I've got most of them covered in my 'Hey Vortec Guys' topic - http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...Vortec-Guys!-Sierra-pickup-Suburban-Yukon-etc
As to pickup vs SUV, depends what you rintended uses are. for 4+ people / family +dog its no contest. There's been a rash of Suburban purchases here of late, as folks move up thru smaller vehicles and more ambitious traveling plans. They really are a nice room solution for traveling and mild off-road and if you are desiring it, can be made more off-road capable.
/makes me wish I'd kept an index of the discussion topics about this, for handy reference. It comes up fairly regular.
in fact there's a guy on here right now that was just posting about selling a nice looking '86 Burb, might be just what you want
eta http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/166527-Selling-my-overland-ready-built-Suburban
What State are you in, what sort of emissions regimen do you have to comply with? I ask because you listed the older vehicles (too), you looking for a non-electronic vehicle in particular? If that's not a particular issue I have to recommend the GMT800s. I think they're really in a sweet spot in terms of availability, price, condition and support in the parts / aftermarket. I already have a good bit of trouble getting some parts for my '85 C-10. Keeping the small block chevy running is easy, it's the emissions, fuel tank switch, stuff particular to the vehicle that is a problem. There are a great many topics here from GMT800 owners, if you can search them out there's a wealth of info in them. As for what to look for, on the older trucks look fro frame cracking near the steering box, especially on 4wd variants. The LS/LM7 Vortec motors, there are a few things tha tcome with age / high mileage / rough environments, I've got most of them covered in my 'Hey Vortec Guys' topic - http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...Vortec-Guys!-Sierra-pickup-Suburban-Yukon-etc
As to pickup vs SUV, depends what you rintended uses are. for 4+ people / family +dog its no contest. There's been a rash of Suburban purchases here of late, as folks move up thru smaller vehicles and more ambitious traveling plans. They really are a nice room solution for traveling and mild off-road and if you are desiring it, can be made more off-road capable.
/makes me wish I'd kept an index of the discussion topics about this, for handy reference. It comes up fairly regular.
in fact there's a guy on here right now that was just posting about selling a nice looking '86 Burb, might be just what you want
eta http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/166527-Selling-my-overland-ready-built-Suburban
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I'll second rayra's comments- I think a little more info would be helpful. In general I think the key is how many people you travel with. Gear will fit in either but if you have 2 or 3 (or more) kids then the yukon/suburban route will be required. I have had very good luck with an 03 yukon but all yukon/Tahoe are 1/2 ton so depending on what you want it to do it may or may not make sense (do you need/want a 3/4 ton)? One benefit of the yukon/tahoe/suburban models v. a pickup is the "ready made" sleeping solution. I've camped many times solo where I have all my gear on one side (2nd row seat down, 3rd row removed). It's very easy convenient and can pack up and scoot very quick.
As to the year etc yes where you are and emissions crap may play into your decision. But certainly if you're in the northeast or snow country I would be checking for salt rust carefully. If you can find a southern truck much better, especially if you're going older.
As to the year etc yes where you are and emissions crap may play into your decision. But certainly if you're in the northeast or snow country I would be checking for salt rust carefully. If you can find a southern truck much better, especially if you're going older.
I third the burb. its a great platform for overland travel. TONS of room for gear, gets decent milage and is comfortable. Agree with WIlbah, get a southern one. Mine has a bad case of the red scourge now. I hope to sand blast the chasis this spring and try to stop the spread.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
If you want to split the difference between an SUV and a pickup you also have the option of going with an Avalanche. They were made from 2002 - 2013 and there are versions in both GMT-800 (02-06) and GMT-900 (07-13.) In many ways the best of both worlds as it gives you true pickup capabilities with an open bed as well as true SUV capabilities with seating for 5.
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The only downside to the Avalanche is that they were made in smaller numbers and have developed something of a cult following, as such they are considerably pricier than a similar year and mileage Suburban (they sit on the same chassis as a Suburban.) In the GMT-800 era they were even made in a 2500 (3/4 ton) version.
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I started out really wanting an Avalanche but could not find one in my price range that didn't have ridiculous high miles, so I went with a 'Burb instead. I'm pretty happy with it, I've even used the 3rd row seat a couple of times and that's been nice to have.
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It's funny that when you tell people you have a Suburban, the first thing they say is "man, those things are HUGE!" but in reality they're not much bigger than a mid-sized SUV and are smaller than a lot of full sized pickups. My 04 Suburban is only 30" longer than my 2007 4runner (18' 3" overall length vs 15' 9" for the 4runner.)
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Wheelbase on a Suburban is 130" which sounds really long - until you consider that a "compact" 2017 Tacoma double cab short bed has a wheelbase just 3" shorter at 127", and a Double Cab with the long bed is 140"!
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I was even able to parallel park my Suburban in downtown Seattle traffic back in May! :ylsmoke:
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The only downside to the Avalanche is that they were made in smaller numbers and have developed something of a cult following, as such they are considerably pricier than a similar year and mileage Suburban (they sit on the same chassis as a Suburban.) In the GMT-800 era they were even made in a 2500 (3/4 ton) version.
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I started out really wanting an Avalanche but could not find one in my price range that didn't have ridiculous high miles, so I went with a 'Burb instead. I'm pretty happy with it, I've even used the 3rd row seat a couple of times and that's been nice to have.
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It's funny that when you tell people you have a Suburban, the first thing they say is "man, those things are HUGE!" but in reality they're not much bigger than a mid-sized SUV and are smaller than a lot of full sized pickups. My 04 Suburban is only 30" longer than my 2007 4runner (18' 3" overall length vs 15' 9" for the 4runner.)
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Wheelbase on a Suburban is 130" which sounds really long - until you consider that a "compact" 2017 Tacoma double cab short bed has a wheelbase just 3" shorter at 127", and a Double Cab with the long bed is 140"!
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I was even able to parallel park my Suburban in downtown Seattle traffic back in May! :ylsmoke:
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
As far as drivetrains go, IMO the weak spot is the 4L60 transmission in the half ton trucks. Mine went out at 149,000 miles, that's the bad news. The "good" news (relatively speaking, I guess) is that while I lost 3rd and 4th gear I was able to "limp" home in 2nd (pulling a travel trailer over an 11,000' pass, no less!) I believe the 3/4 gear failure is the most common type of failure with this transmission. Rebuild cost was $2k and that included stronger parts than factory so I should be good to go for at least the next several years. I've heard others say the G80 locker is another weak point and the fuel pump as well but (knock wood) so far mine are OK.
With kids and dogs definitely get the yukon/suburban and of the two I'd say the burb is better. I got the yukon as it was my wife's dd. I would have preferred the burb but given the rear bumper damage that got inflicted probably just as well I didn't (don't let me wife see this thread....ha).
Martin I've had good luck on tranny and diff but did lose the fuel pump which is a pita. From what I've learned the key is to keep the vehicle more than 1/2 full in the summer as low fuel and it overheats shortening it's life. You have to drop the tank to change it so it's a total pita. I just got lucky that it failed 3 miles from home. In the woods could have been a nightmare.
Martin I've had good luck on tranny and diff but did lose the fuel pump which is a pita. From what I've learned the key is to keep the vehicle more than 1/2 full in the summer as low fuel and it overheats shortening it's life. You have to drop the tank to change it so it's a total pita. I just got lucky that it failed 3 miles from home. In the woods could have been a nightmare.
camp4x4
Adventurer
I adore my '87 Suburban. Use it for 4x4-heavy overlanding and some towing. The 350TBI is pretty weak for the overall size, especially loaded up with gear, but it seems pretty solid reliability-wise. All the things that I've had to fix were cheap and easy. Basically sensors and such corroding or wearing out over time. I'm planning an L18/4l80E swap to make up for the power thing. If you could pick up a mid/late '90s 'Burb with a 454 that would make one amazing rig. Adding a Dana 60 solid axle swap would make it one incredible beast - tons of room for gear, great wheeling platform.
If you do go with an earlier full size and plan to do anything over 35" tire and/or any heavier offroad, your first order of business should be getting rid of the front axle for a Dan 60 with king pins. I can't tell you how many times I've changed ball joints. Granted I do some heavy wheeling... but still, it's crazy how quickly they go out.
As for SUV vs pickup, the biggest thing I like about the 'Burb is that we can access all the gear in the back without getting out, and that the middle seat folds down to make extra space when needed.
Hope that helps...
If you do go with an earlier full size and plan to do anything over 35" tire and/or any heavier offroad, your first order of business should be getting rid of the front axle for a Dan 60 with king pins. I can't tell you how many times I've changed ball joints. Granted I do some heavy wheeling... but still, it's crazy how quickly they go out.
As for SUV vs pickup, the biggest thing I like about the 'Burb is that we can access all the gear in the back without getting out, and that the middle seat folds down to make extra space when needed.
Hope that helps...
rayra
Expedition Leader
On size / wheelbase, my '02 Sub is within about an inch in overall length and wheelbase to my standard cab longbed C-10 pickup.
And I do love that I can fit a full sheet of plywood behind the front seats, with the 2nd and 3rd rows folded. Designed that way. Same 49" width between the rear wheel wells as a standard pickup bed. And overall it's ~140cu' of interior space. Truly if you overfill a Suburban you're packing too much ****.
Be advised that the back seat windows in the Tahoe / Yukon only go down about 8", due to the rear wheel well indent in the back seat doors. You want the rear windows to go all the way down you have to get a Suburban / Yukon XL. Or a crew-cab pickup / Avalanche.
And I do love that I can fit a full sheet of plywood behind the front seats, with the 2nd and 3rd rows folded. Designed that way. Same 49" width between the rear wheel wells as a standard pickup bed. And overall it's ~140cu' of interior space. Truly if you overfill a Suburban you're packing too much ****.
Be advised that the back seat windows in the Tahoe / Yukon only go down about 8", due to the rear wheel well indent in the back seat doors. You want the rear windows to go all the way down you have to get a Suburban / Yukon XL. Or a crew-cab pickup / Avalanche.