Is this possible

[Casper]

Towing with a Tundra, it is possible-Updated 6-22-2011

Ok, I have been trying to figure this one out and need help. Is there any way to safely raise the towing capacity of a truck? What I have is a 2000 Toyota Tundra. The max towing wieght is 7000 lbs. I would like to tow my Xterra if I need to. This would amount to once, maybe twice a year so I am not willing to buy a bigger truck for this. The wieght of the X and trailer are just over the limit of my Tundra. I am not looking to increase it by much, maybe 1000lbs at max, and the tongue wieght will stay the same. At this stage in the game, price is not a concern, I just want to know if it's possible, and what it would take. I would think a brake upgrade, add airbags to the rearend and maybe a bigger trans cooler and radiator. Anything else? Is this safe? I know a full size Ford can tow over twice it's wieght so just wondering if a Tundra could.

Thanks for the help with this. One last question. Can anyone tell me where I can find the California laws on flat towing vehicles? I have searched, but can't seem to find it. I am looking to find out if there is a wieght limit to how much you can flat tow. Thanks

Casper
:REOutCampFire03:

 

[SafariPacific]

The main thing I would suggest is a bigger axle. Depending on the forces involved you may need to upgrade your transmission and drive shaft. Upgrading to exceed limits calls into play the weakest link issue. If you upgrade the axle only you may kill your transmission. So be prepared to upgrade more than expected. Give the California Dept of Transportation a call, they should be able to give you any info needed on laws.

Some points that may need upgrading.
- Axle
- Springs
- Shocks <- if excess tongue weight
- Brakes (all 4)
- Drive Line
- Transmission
- Transmission cooler
- Receiver hitch

 

[adrenaline503]

Instead off adding capacity for 1000 lbs, can you remove a 1000lbs?

 

[ntsqd]

GVWR is set by the mfg of the vehicle. I'm not sure that there is any legal mechanism available to change it. I'd start with the Fed DOT as they are more likely to have some say in this.

Second the removal of weight rather than attempting to change the GVW.

Also, I think the rules for 5th wheels & GVW's may be different. Might look into that.

 

[Travelmore]

Tow ratings are just guidelines that are extremely cautious. I would go the 5th wheel route and tow the truck behind the Xterra.

More photos here
http://boards.trailerboats.com/cgi-bin/trailerboats/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001957

 

[Casper]

Ok, all good coments, well almost all.
I figured towing was towing. I didn't think it would differ from towing a bumper trailer to towing a fifth wheel. I will look into that. I also didn't think about the axle. If I need to change axles it may not be worth it. I am close. It looks like the trailer and Xterra will weigh in at about 7100 lbs. I will be weighing the X to get a true wieght, I just used the gvw sticker for now. The lightening wieght idea is good. I can take the shell off. Thats a few hundred pounds. After that I don't think I could loose anything else.

Thanks, any more suggestions?

Casper

 

[jcbrandon]

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the maximum total weight a vehicle is rated for including the weight of all fluids, occupants, and cargo. Curb weight is generally what the vehicle weighs without cargo, occupants, or fuel. The difference is payload. So estimating the weight to be towed by using the GVW number will be misleading. It is very possible that your tow vehicle is already rated to tow your other vehicle, as long as the towed vehicle is empty.

Most pickup trucks can tow more weight on a fifth wheel trailer than from a rear-mounted ball hitch. That's because the fifth wheel hitch is mounted directly over the rear axle and the hitch carries a significant portion of the trailer weight.

 

[sdjeep]

Just a thought

One thing to remember is that if you go over your tow rating and are involved in an accident on the road, even if it's not your fault, you may be liable for damages your insurance won't cover if they find out. The other party, if injured, may sue because even if you take steps to make your vehicle capable of towing that much, you still went over the max set by the manufacturer. Also, a lot of times the max tow rating is with a wieght distributing hitch, and without one it may be much lower. An example is my 2006 Jeep Commander with the 5.7 Hemi and 4wd is rated at 7200lbs with a weight distributing hitch but only 5000lbs without. I have heard of some that are rated to as much as 8k with one but only 2k without. Maybe the Nissan Titan, but not sure on that one.

Don't know if it's possible with your Xterra, but have you considered flat towing it to get rid of the wieght of the trailer itself? Kinda like all those Wranglers you see getting towed behind motorhomes. Most major RV shops can rig up the towed vehicle to use it's own brakes while being towed along with it's own lighting system. Might be more hassle than it's worth for only 1-2 times a year though.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Casper]

sdjeep,
Thanks for that info. I never even considered that. I don't think it would be worth it when you consider that. Thanks. I have thought about flat towing it. I think that might be the way to go. My local offroad shop could fab up the towing bar, and I will look into the brake and light part. Using the Xterras tail lights would be easy, the brakes I have no idea how they do it, but I have heard of it.

Thanks again
Casper
:Mechanic:

 

[sdjeep]

Check this out

It's kinda pricey but might work as far as braking goes. Looks like it's pretty much out of the way when not in use.

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/...ster-Towed-Vehicle-Braking-System/prodID=2506

Or maybe this one.

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/...n-Brake-Towed-Car-Braking-System/skunum=30333

 

[4Rescue]

Simple, Air-bags, a trailer with brakes, and lower gears for the diffs. Adda huge tranny cooler and it shouldn't be to bad. We've towed some extrordianry loads with my dads 98 Cherokee XJ. Just don't go to fast and pay good atantion to your load and you'll be fine. Don't over do it, but your X should tow fine on a tandem axle car trailer behind your Tundra...

Cheers

Dave

 

[madizell]

I am looking to find out if there is a wieght limit to how much you can flat tow.
:REOutCampFire03:

Flat tow limits should be the same as any other means of tow. There is a tongue weight limit and a total load limit. Flat towing should eliminate the tongue weight entirely, leaving only the total tow load, and surely your X weighs less than 7,000 pounds.

Towing by 5th wheel only changes where on the frame the tow load appears, so commonly you can take a higher tongue weight since the weight load is centered in the bed, not hooked to the rear of the frame, but the total load would be the same as this is more to do with the ability to accelerate and brake the load, as well as the capacity of the axle shafts, gears, and bearings to take the strain, as well as the transmission's ability to take the extra abuse. These issues would not change just because of the 5th wheel attach point.

 

[jcbrandon]

...Towing by 5th wheel only changes where on the frame the tow load appears... but the total load would be the same as this is more to do with the ability to accelerate and brake ... These issues would not change just because of the 5th wheel attach point.

I disagree.
A 2008 Ford Super Duty with a turbo diesel engine, manual transmission, 3.73 axle gears, and single rear wheels is rated to tow 12,500 pounds with a ball hitch but capacity increases to 16,100 pounds with a fifth-wheel hitch. There are similar increases in capacity for other power and drivetrain combinations.

I do agree that the Gross Combined Weight Rating does not increase just by using a fifth-wheel hitch. So the limiting factor in my example above is the capacity of the hitch, not the truck. A lighter-duty truck probably would not gain tow capacity from a fifth-wheel hitch.

Flat towing has its downsides. Some vehicles cannot easily be towed on their own four wheels without disconnecting the driveshaft(s). This is usually addressed in the owner's manual and referred to as "recreational towing." It may also be difficult to attach a towbar. And you have to make arrangements for brakes and lights on the towed vehicle. All of these issues are solvable but will cost time and money.

Lots of people regularly exceed rated tow capacities for their vehicles. That doesn't mean it is safe. Best bet is to carefully study the owner's manual and data plates on your particular vehicles.

 

[silentsamurai]

Do not tow over the recommended towing capacity. 7k towing cap. is your max? dont tow anything over 6500. Sorry but you want to be safe, don't do it. anything over 5k i would get bigger and better brakes.

I know it sucks, but im sure you didn't buy the truck to tow things. If you did, you woulda bought a heavy duty or a dually.

Our trucks aren't made for towing unfortunately.

Thats my honest and forward opinion. Not worth the risk to your truck or to others on the road.

Adam

 

[Casper]

Figured I would bring this thread back from the dead to report. I looked into everything that everyone mentioned. In the end I decided on a few things.

1. Loose some weight from the Xterra (kills two birds with one stone as I wanted the X to loose some weight for other reasons as well.)
2. Save my money and find a good light weight trailer. It took awhile, but I found one. A 2010 Carson standard car hauler. It weighs in at 1422lbs unloaded and only cost my 1k
3. Weight distrubution hitch, it's the only way to tow anything heavy.
4. Vehicle placement on trailer. Take the time to get it set perfectly, which for my trailer is 60% forward and 40% rear.
5. Brake controler (duh, kinda a no brainer, but if someone searches this thread and doesn't see mention of it they may think it's not needed. IT IS)

This is the setup I used to tow the X to Moab this year. The Xterra and trailer weighed in at 6750lbs. 800 mile one way, and I have to say, the truck preformed perfectly. With the weight distrobution hitch you really don't feel the trailer back there except on hills. I was able to do the speed limit the entire way out and back except for 4 hills, where the Tundra would only do 50 mph. I probably could have gone faster up those hils, but I really didn't need/want to push the engine that hard. The onyl downside I found was that gas milage was worse then I thought it would be at an average of 8 to 9 mpg's.

All in all my conclusion is that if you only tow a few times a year and your load is under 7k then the Tundra is worth looking into. I was VERY impressed with how well it did.

Note in th eabove photo, I am still learning/adjusting the WDH, so it is not set perfectly yet, but almost.

Cheers,
Josh
&
Porthos
:smiley_drive: