Who tows with a diesel Colorado ?

[luckyjoe]

The reliably of the GM does concern me, but maybe I need to start being like everyone else and trade it in every 5 years.

This is my biggest hurdle as well. Only American cars I've ever owned are now 45+ years old, so I'm completly out of touch. That said, it is a lot of cash to put down on an unknown when we drive our vehicles for 16-20 years. Can I expect to do that with a 2.8L Canyon?!

 

[p nut]

This is my biggest hurdle as well. Only American cars I've ever owned are now 45+ years old, so I'm completly out of touch. That said, it is a lot of cash to put down on an unknown when we drive our vehicles for 16-20 years. Can I expect to do that with a 2.8L Canyon?!

I think the automotive industry is much different these days. Shrinking world/global economy, means part suppliers, r&d, engineers, designers, etc. are being pulled from the same pool. There's been many instances in the past where two companies co-developed specific parts, which continues today. Toyota and GM have done this numerous times. I think you'll see reliability even out among the bigger auto companies.

 

[Buddha.]

I'm surprised there's so much debate about whether a truck can tow half it's rated capacity. I should think even the gasser verion would do it fine.

 

[Clutch]

This is my biggest hurdle as well. Only American cars I've ever owned are now 45+ years old, so I'm completly out of touch. That said, it is a lot of cash to put down on an unknown when we drive our vehicles for 16-20 years. Can I expect to do that with a 2.8L Canyon?!

The diesel systems worry me the most, the mileage sounds very temping, however is all that savings in fuel going to be shot out the window when it goes in for repairs when out of warranty. Safer bet would be getting the gasser. I am seeing the extra cab WT V6 models go for under $25K, so there is $10K in savings right off the bat over the diesel. We don't have any kids, prefer Extra-Cabs over Crew when it comes down to it...no diesel available in the Extra-Cab. Might make my decision a little easier.

The 17's are getting the 8 speed transmission, might be able to squeak out 23-25 hwy, so not that much in fuel savings at the end of the year. Current fuel prices in my area, me driving 24K miles/year only saves $600/year in fuel...would take 16 years to make back that $10K cost difference. At least according to my fuzzy math. Can almost guarantee that keeping the diesel for 16 years/384Kmiles...it is going to need some expensive repair.

 

[Clutch]

I'm surprised there's so much debate about whether a truck can tow half it's rated capacity. I should think even the gasser verion would do it fine.

I know! Remember in another thread I was saying at the absolute max I tow 2500 lbs maybe once a year for 2 weeks, the rest of the time it is closer to 1200 lbs a few times a month...couple guys said I need to get a 3/4-1 Ton Cummins. Just a wee bit of over kill...

 

[p nut]

One thing to note is the Starcraft is tall. Susceptible to cross winds and passing semi's. Perhaps with a proper hitch set up, maybe not an issue, but I don't know for sure. But I'd imagine it'd be definitely noticeable compared to a 3:4 ton. Not saying he needs a 3/4 to pull it, but the difference will be noticed. I'd think a 1/2 ton would make towing a more pleasurable, stress free experience.

 

[TwinStick]

I was trying to not get into this but I guess I have to:

I see it every year when we go camping, every year. People pulling a camper that don't even weigh 5000 lbs with a CTD, DuraMax, Ford diesel w/900 ft lbs. I know WHY they do it, I just think it is BS that they HAVE to. Reason: The gas engine trucks are simply not geared for HD work. Not in the axles & not in the transmission gears. Which is part of the reason I ordered a Power Wagon with the manual transmission. I know bad mpgs are the result. But remember----not too long ago, we pulled a 6000 lb+ camper, with our station wagon !!! Yes, thats right, a car. It never overheated or had the transmission go out.

We bought our 10,500 lb Toy Hauler in 2004. We bought a 2004 Ram 2500 QC 4x4 w/Hemi/545RFE/4.10 axles/tow pkg. It absolutely SUCKED BIG TIME for pulling that camper. It would either be screaming in 2nd or lugging in 3rd & CONSTANTLY be shifting back & forth between them. My F-I-Law's 2004 Chevy w/6L/auto/4.10's did the exact same thing. I had to go from a 12 row factory, to a 24 row trans oil cooler & an engine oil cooler, just to keep it from self destructing from heat. It got the same or less mpg towing as my PW does with the way lower gears. Same engine (345hp) as the 04' but the 4.56's & the much lower transmission gears made towing the Toy Hauler easy peasy. If the newer gas trucks had transmissions & axles were really made for HD work, you wouldn't see people pulling 3-5000 lb campers with diesels. Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but not everybody that has one wants one. I meet them every year when camping. They buy them because the diesels HUGE torque makes up for the lack of proper transmission & axle ratios. They do not upshift/downshift all the time like the gas engines trying to do the same work. And therefore make the driver's experience towing, a whole lot less eventful. The conversation usually starts because they see my engine block heater plug on the front of the PW & ask, "how do you like your diesel for towing ?"

The more expensive fuel gets, the more diesels make sense. They are simply more efficient than a gas engine. But it seems here in the USA, Companies want you to pay up front for any type of savings you MIGHT get from their product. Which makes it a whole lot harder for people to get into the "save fuel, electricity, tree's, etc" mindset. It's like they don't want you to, because they throw every obstacle in your way. Yet they complain about how wasteful us consumers are ?

Also, just read where the Chevy Cruz diesel gets 54 mpg highway & beat out the Toyota Prius for the first time ever. It gets 52 mpg highway. So, maybe, just maybe, the diesels will finally take off good here in the USA, like they are in Europe ?

Maybe when my dealer gets one in, I will see if I can test drive it overnight & bring it home, readjust my hitch to work on that truck & take the camper out for a good test drive. No big hills around my immediate area but the highway is close.

You guys make a lot of good points. I appreciate it, thanks. Keep em coming if you want.

 

[calicamper]

I was trying to not get into this but I guess I have to:

I see it every year when we go camping, every year. People pulling a camper that don't even weigh 5000 lbs with a CTD, DuraMax, Ford diesel w/900 ft lbs. I know WHY they do it, I just think it is BS that they HAVE to. Reason: The gas engine trucks are simply not geared for HD work. Not in the axles & not in the transmission gears. Which is part of the reason I ordered a Power Wagon with the manual transmission. I know bad mpgs are the result. But remember----not too long ago, we pulled a 6000 lb+ camper, with our station wagon !!! Yes, thats right, a car. It never overheated or had the transmission go out.

We bought our 10,500 lb Toy Hauler in 2004. We bought a 2004 Ram 2500 QC 4x4 w/Hemi/545RFE/4.10 axles/tow pkg. It absolutely SUCKED BIG TIME for pulling that camper. It would either be screaming in 2nd or lugging in 3rd & CONSTANTLY be shifting back & forth between them. My F-I-Law's 2004 Chevy w/6L/auto/4.10's did the exact same thing. I had to go from a 12 row factory, to a 24 row trans oil cooler & an engine oil cooler, just to keep it from self destructing from heat. It got the same or less mpg towing as my PW does with the way lower gears. Same engine (345hp) as the 04' but the 4.56's & the much lower transmission gears made towing the Toy Hauler easy peasy. If the newer gas trucks had transmissions & axles were really made for HD work, you wouldn't see people pulling 3-5000 lb campers with diesels. Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but not everybody that has one wants one. I meet them every year when camping. They buy them because the diesels HUGE torque makes up for the lack of proper transmission & axle ratios. They do not upshift/downshift all the time like the gas engines trying to do the same work. And therefore make the driver's experience towing, a whole lot less eventful. The conversation usually starts because they see my engine block heater plug on the front of the PW & ask, "how do you like your diesel for towing ?"

The more expensive fuel gets, the more diesels make sense. They are simply more efficient than a gas engine. But it seems here in the USA, Companies want you to pay up front for any type of savings you MIGHT get from their product. Which makes it a whole lot harder for people to get into the "save fuel, electricity, tree's, etc" mindset. It's like they don't want you to, because they throw every obstacle in your way. Yet they complain about how wasteful us consumers are ?

Also, just read where the Chevy Cruz diesel gets 54 mpg highway & beat out the Toyota Prius for the first time ever. It gets 52 mpg highway. So, maybe, just maybe, the diesels will finally take off good here in the USA, like they are in Europe ?

Maybe when my dealer gets one in, I will see if I can test drive it overnight & bring it home, readjust my hitch to work on that truck & take the camper out for a good test drive. No big hills around my immediate area but the highway is close.

You guys make a lot of good points. I appreciate it, thanks. Keep em coming if you want.

My wife has a loooong commute. Shes in a 2016 Fusion Energi Titanium with the upgraded interior. Super nice executive level interior. We charge the 7.2kwh battery on both ends of the commute. Free charging at work. $35,000 invoice car. She averages 70mpg in the winter and 80-85mpg in the summer. Full charge and full tank it does about 700miles between fill ups. The Prius doesnt even come close. Noisy interior, lousy seating comfort and most friend with the plugin report 60-70mpg averages.

I like the cruze especially the manual Opel hatch back that we get. But from a cost to run comparison in daily commuting the plugin hybrids and full EV's dominate that argument hands down.

As for electric rates our rates are nearly the highest in the US next to Hawaii rates. I simply designed my own Solar kit for the house using free GOV solar resources. Our break even is 3yrs. $19,000 for top quality micro inverter system 25yr manufacturer warranty equipment. $5000 for electrician / install. And $380 county permit. We pay zero for electricity and treat the utility like a battery. We burn credit power between end of November and early March. In July we bank energy credits for the couple of winter months we use more than we generate. Hands down no new homes should be built with out solar gen systems today.

We'll be in this house for 18yrs at least, the savings are substantial.

Suvs and Pickups no doubt should be offered with modern clean diesel tech. They stand to see the biggest gains in fuel efficiency.

 

[calicamper]

As for the towing stuff. I towed racing
Sailboats for yrs, yr around in all sorts of foul weather and 1000 mile trips with zero mechanical or handling issues. All with a Subaru Legacy sedan and Outback. Boat weight all up ranged from 600 to 1800lbs behind the car.
I cant tell you how many times I was lectured by 2500/250 diesel truck guys towing 18ft aluminum skiffs on 13inch tires how unsafe and stupid I was. I would always ask them what their boat weighed. Not a single one knew.

My racing sailboats as part of racing requirements were weighed on a digital scale every yr before our National Championship regatta. I knew exactly what my rig weighed. And my favorite tow rig even to this day having had 4runners, Landcruiser and our Sequoia. Is my old Legacy GT 5spd mt. That car handled better than all the trucks even when towing the 1800lb boat. Even out stopped my trucks.

Having said that 99%of the RV types have zero idea what their real weight is and I'd bet 80% are over their max rating. Which is why so many people eventually end up with a monster tow rig.

 

[b9ev]

A friend of mine has a neighbor that tows a small camper with his diesel Colorado and they love it. I have no idea the weight of it but it supposedly handles, brakes, and maintains speed very well.

As far as the full size gas vs diesel, I honestly wouldn't have thought the gas Dodge or gas Chevy twinstick mentioned would have had any trouble towing that trailer. I blame the gearing on trying to meet EPA mileage as opposed to real world usability. For myself, I like driving a one ton diesel and not having to worry about an 1800lb trailer or 10k lb trailer. I don't have to worry about overheating or stability in controlling the load.

 

[lqdchkn]

Also, JSYK, I am VERY interested in the ZR2. Same diesel engine, 8 speed transmission (I think, right) but less GCWR. 5000 max tow vs the 7000 on your truck. Kinda like my PW. Less than a reg 2500 but same frame, axles (except the lockers), etc...

No, no 8 speed for the diesel in 2017. Maybe for the 2018

 

[Clutch]

One thing to note is the Starcraft is tall. Susceptible to cross winds and passing semi's. Perhaps with a proper hitch set up, maybe not an issue, but I don't know for sure. But I'd imagine it'd be definitely noticeable compared to a 3:4 ton. Not saying he needs a 3/4 to pull it, but the difference will be noticed. I'd think a 1/2 ton would make towing a more pleasurable, stress free experience.

Wonder if the dealer will let you have it for 24 hours, and take it for a test run, just to see. Only real way to see if it will work, is to drive it. Reading opinions on the internets can only go so far.

 

[b9ev]

That would be awesome but I can't imagine a dealer that would allow someone to pull a trailer on a test drive.

Wonder if the dealer will let you have it for 24 hours, and take it for a test run, just to see. Only real way to see if it will work, is to drive it. Reading opinions on the internets can only go so far.

 

[Clutch]

That would be awesome but I can't imagine a dealer that would allow someone to pull a trailer on a test drive.

Yeah, I doubt it...but it is a big purchase. You have to know before hand if it is going to work or not.

I have taken a couple vehicles home over night from a dealer just to see. Have also rented vehicles anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks.

Not sure if it still rings true, can't you return the vehicle within 3 days of purchase. Remember my mom doing that years ago with a Mercury Sable.

 

[p nut]

Wonder if the dealer will let you have it for 24 hours, and take it for a test run, just to see. Only real way to see if it will work, is to drive it. Reading opinions on the internets can only go so far.

That would be ideal. I remember towing a 12' enclosed trailer last year, up one of the canyons. It wasn't a windy day, but I could definitely feel some tail wag when I passed a semi or if there were some cross winds. I think that StarCraft is 10' high, which is like driving with a sail on the back. Tall vans, like the Sprinter, has some sort of cross-wind mitigating system, as they're about that height as well. Probably for a good reason. Personally, for a retiree, travel the US vehicle, I'd feel more comfortable in a 1/2 ton.
_
Who knows though. I haven't towed with a Colorado. It may do just great.
_
I was talking to my rancher uncle last week. He's got an 08 Ram 3/4 ton diesel. Says gets 22MPG unloaded, and 15MPG towing. And not towing some whimpy loads like I usually haul, but man-sized loads. Says torque is just unreal compared to his Ford 3/4 ton (gas). So, basically gets the exact same MPG as my light-duty Ford, but can do 2 to 3x more work. That is enticing.
_
By the way, TwinStick, what are you doing retired at 53???!! :elkgrin: