27.5 "Plus" hard tail trail bike

[Sid Post]

I'm looking for a new 27.5 plus tired front suspension 'trail' bike. My current 26" Shimano Deore 'no suspension' Aluminum frame MTB ride just doesn't have enough traction where I ride now and it is getting to be pretty hard on my shoulders as I get older (shoulder surgery didn't help either )

I'm looking in the $1K~$1.5K retail price range and DO NOT want a full suspension bicycle. Unfortunately, I'm in East Texas and don't have access to much in the way of dealer support so, the only bicycles I have seen in person are Cannondale and of course the "local" guys all swear by the Cujo which seemed really heavy to me - like fat tire heavy. The "Beast of the East" seemed promising but, I only saw pictures of it. The other dealer really talked up Reid out of Australia (because they warehouse in Dallas ). At some point I guess I will have to go to Shreveport, Dallas or, OKC to see some other options.

A bit of help to narrow my search a bit would be appreciated! Questions to start ...

Pro and Con ...

• Shimano or SRAM running gear?
• Suspension forks (what's good and what's junk)?
• Steel or Aluminum frames?
• Cannondale "IS" real or marketing hype?
• Brakes and what to avoid?
• What wheel sets are good and bad?

TIA,
Sid

 

[Co-opski]

Here is a review on Salsa Timberjack 27.5+ and Woodsmoke 29+. Both should fit in your price range.
https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-reviews/salsa-timberjack-27-5-test-ride-review/
https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-reviews/the-new-salsa-woodsmoke-29-vs-27-5-heads-up-test/

This is just personal but I find alt-bars with a wide/sweep are good for my long term rides with wrists and shoulders. I use the Answer 20/20 bar now or the Jones J, Jones H or Jones Loop bars. may want to find a bike with these types of bars and give them a try. I know Surly Ogre or Troll comes with the Loop bar stock.

 

[tonga]

I run my own mobile bike repair business so I get a chance to work on lots of bikes, as well as having a decent collection of bikes. Here is my take.

1. either sram or shimano are great. from what you wrote, you want something better than deore. you shouldn't have any shifting issues. actually, well tuned deore works pretty great IMO. I personally like 1x11 drivetrain but not sure you're going to find that in your price range.

2. in your price range, the fork NEEDS to have rebound adjustment. if it has compression adjustment also, all the better.

3. i'd go steel for your bike. steel is much more forgiving than aluminum...especially in a hardtail.

4. can't comment on current cannondale offerings

5. shimano brakes all the way. slx, xt, saint level for hydraulic brakes will be the best. great performance and easy to work on (my wife and I ride Saint and XT brakes on our trail and DH bikes). I ride avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes on my fatbike and they are amazing. I love the reliability of them and how easy they are to work on. I'd pick the BB7 brakes over cheaper hydraulic brakes.

6. can't comment on wheel sets as there as SO many that come on OEM bikes


I'll second alt bars. I have Jones loop wide bars and they are great. They do have a lot of sweep at 45 degrees. The answer 20/20 looks perfect to me!

 

[deuxdiesel]

You might look into a Jamis Dragonslayer, offered in both 26+ and 27.5+. For the money (right in your price range) it's a pretty good deal. Steel frame, sliding dropouts, dropper compatable, boost spacing, plus bosses for racks. SRAM 1x11 is nice, Shimano hydro brakes are OK (never my fist choice) but I will probably change them to BB7's or even the Paul Klampers. Rock Shox Recon Boost is standard equipment for many bikes in this price range and is serviceable for most riders. The WTB rims and tires are quickly converted to tubeless as well. I looked at a bunch of bikes including the BOTE and the Salsa, but for the money, the Dragonslayer was the best frame. I know Kona has a 27.5+ line as well, but they were not out when I was looking.

 

[monkeyrider]

REI just purchased the rights to sell Salsa bikes. You should look at them very closely. Being REI, they will place them in your price range.

That's not necessarily true. I doubt Salsa will allow REI to discount the bikes. Right now they are listed at full MSRP. End of season, sure, they can discount leftover inventory.

 

[Sid Post]

REI just purchased the rights to sell Salsa bikes. You should look at them very closely. Being REI, they will place them in your price range.

That's not necessarily true. I doubt Salsa will allow REI to discount the bikes. Right now they are listed at full MSRP. End of season, sure, they can discount leftover inventory.

It looks like the non-big box store bicycle companies all have pretty restrictive licensing agreements so, I would be surprised to see publicly listed prices less than MSRP/MAAP. When I bought my last bicycle so long ago, it wasn't a big deal to pay full retail because the store gave me my 'discount' in all the other stuff I needed (helmets, patch kit, tools, etc.).

I'm liking the Salsa Woodsmoke but, at full 'retail' that ain't happening.

The Jamis Dragonslayer and Cannondale Beast of the East are two others that have my attention and look like they might be a little soft in the MSRP at retail with dealers in Dallas.

Best Regards,
Sid

 

[Sid Post]

How do the Kona Big Kahuna and Big Honzo compare to each other? How do the Jamis Dragonslayer and Komodo compare to each other and Kona's? Is the Cannondale Beast of the East 3 with its Suntour shock in the same league as these? Being a bit of a novice, I'm having a little bit of trouble reading various online reviews and gleaning meaningful differences out of personal opinion, bias and, marketing hype.

TIA,
Sid

 

[Co-opski]

Kona Big Kahuna 2x10 Shimano Deore shifters and brakes (older out dated style). RockShox Recon 100mm travel fork (20mm less travel)
Kona Big Honzo 1x11 SRAM NX1 (Better) RockShox (RS) Recon 120mm (better) Shimano Acera m396 brakes (less than deore?)
Same frame material AL 6061, Boost 148 rear spacing, WTB Scrapper i40 rims. No published weights on internet. My guess 29/30Lbs.
Jamis DragonslayeReynolds 520 steel (similar to better steel bikes like Advocate and Ritchey)RS Recon 120mm travel 1x11 SRAM NX1 (same as Big Honzo)30.5lbs Boost spacing WTB Scrapper 40 wheels
Jamis Komodo AL 6061 (same as Kona frames) boost 148 rear spacing
Expert model:120mm RS Recon fork, SRAM NX1 1x11 Shimano Deore brakes, Dropper seat posts (Nice to have) 32lbs WTB scrapper 40 wheels
Sport model: Shimano Deore 2x10 (same as Big Kahuna) and Tektro Hydros brakes and SR Suntour fork (less nice) Deore shiftersWTB Scrapper 40 wheels
Cannondale Beast of the East 3 SR Suntour fork Deore brakes Shimano SLX mech/deore shifter 1x10 28.33lbs



steel or AL? RockShox vs Suntour? Rockshox is heavier but serviceable Suntour lighter but not serviceable. Most of all get fitted and ride lots of bikes see what you like?

 

[Sid Post]

Kona Big Kahuna 2x10 Shimano Deore shifters and brakes (older out dated style). RockShox Recon 100mm travel fork (20mm less travel)
Kona Big Honzo 1x11 SRAM NX1 (Better) RockShox (RS) Recon 120mm (better) Shimano Acera m396 brakes (less than deore?)
Same frame material AL 6061, Boost 148 rear spacing, WTB Scrapper i40 rims. No published weights on internet. My guess 29/30Lbs.
Jamis Dragonslayer Reynolds 520 steel (similar to better steel bikes like Advocate and Ritchey) Fox 34 Float 120mm travel 1x11 SRAM NX1 (same as Big Honzo)30.5lbs Boost spacing WTB Scrapper 40 wheels
Jamis Komodo AL 6061 (same as Kona frames) boost 148 rear spacing
Expert model:120mm RS Recon fork, SRAM NX1 1x11 Shimano Deore brakes, Dropper seat posts (Nice to have) 32lbs WTB scrapper 40 wheels
Sport model: Shimano Deore 2x10 (same as Big Kahuna) and Tektro Hydros brakes and SR Suntour fork (less nice) Deore shiftersWTB Scrapper 40 wheels
Cannondale Beast of the East 3 SR Suntour fork Deore brakes Shimano SLX mech/deore shifter 1x10 28.33lbs



steel or AL? RockShox vs Suntour? Rockshox is heavier but serviceable Suntour lighter but not serviceable. Most of all get fitted and ride lots of bikes see what you like?

Thanks! It looks like the Suntour shock is a looser so, that's probably a good one to rule out.

So that leaves:

• Kona Big Honzo @ $1700
• Jamis Dragonslayer @ $2700
• Jamis Komodo Expert @ $1700

It looks like the Big Honzo and Komodo Expert are spec'ed and priced to be 'twins'. It looks like the real question is whether there is an extra $1000 of 'value' in the Dragonslayer's frame and shock as it looks like everything else is the same, at least according to the specs.

What am I missing? I agree with getting fitted and doing test rides. I wish it was easy but, I'm so far away from any shops with bicycles of quality that test rides really involve a hotel and other expenses just to go see them in person.

As mentioned above, the "shops" I went to ~90 minutes away showed me their 'inventory' on the factory website! What a waste of gas money!

 

[deuxdiesel]

Actually there are two Dragonslayers, a Sport and a Pro that use the exact same frame. The Sport is the one that is spec'd in Co-opski's excellent summary. It retails for around $1400, so well within the arena of the others. Worth a close look.

 

[Sid Post]

Thanks deuxdiesel. I keep getting a 'missing file' error on their website so, I missed that detail. :squint:

 

[Christophe Noel]

As someone who worked in bike shops for over a decade, I will add this. Where I see most buyers go astray is with the almost paranoid pursuit of "getting the most for their money." Every buyer seems nearly spooked they'll pull the trigger on something that isn't a good "value." The reality is, you do get exactly what you pay for. Some bikes will have the appearance of a better value, and hell, they may be to a small degree, but the reality is the bike market is so competitive, everyone with a $1500 bike is providing the end user the appropriate machine for the price. Where and how that money is allocated per bike is what varies.

I also advise people to buy a bike, not a spec sheet of parts. It's the whole package that counts. I'll also add, by virtue of my job as a life-long rider and bike journalist, I've had as many as 25 bikes rotate through my garage in the last few years and there hasn't been a "bad" bike in the bunch. Some may be better or worse for some users, but even the price-point offerings have been plenty good.

Lastly, at the end of the day, one bike will eventually call out to you. It's the bike you really WANT to own and ride, regardless of how the specs and pennies appear to stack up. That's the bike you'll ride and be stoked you own.

 

[Sid Post]

As someone who worked in bike shops for over a decade, I will add this. Where I see most buyers go astray is with the almost paranoid pursuit of "getting the most for their money." Every buyer seems nearly spooked they'll pull the trigger on something that isn't a good "value." The reality is, you do get exactly what you pay for. Some bikes will have the appearance of a better value, and hell, they may be to a small degree, but the reality is the bike market is so competitive, everyone with a $1500 bike is providing the end user the appropriate machine for the price. Where and how that money is allocated per bike is what varies.

I also advise people to buy a bike, not a spec sheet of parts. It's the whole package that counts. I'll also add, by virtue of my job as a life-long rider and bike journalist, I've had as many as 25 bikes rotate through my garage in the last few years and there hasn't been a "bad" bike in the bunch. Some may be better or worse for some users, but even the price-point offerings have been plenty good.

Lastly, at the end of the day, one bike will eventually call out to you. It's the bike you really WANT to own and ride, regardless of how the specs and pennies appear to stack up. That's the bike you'll ride and be stoked you own.

Thanks Christophe!

There is REAL value and PERCEIVED value.

How much of my price do I want allocated to advertisment and sponsorship costs? As you pointed out, every company and manufacturer must make a profit to stay in business and most have to live within the same profit and loss margins as everyone else. So barring a closeout to sell off dead stock, you do need to pay attention to where the money is spent as a slick paint job won't make you any faster, shift or brake any better or, in general serve you any better. Like a chain with a weak link, the best spec'ed components in the world can be let down with a cheap or inferior piece of gear tucked away out of sight.

I am in total agreement that rank novices often are specification and perceived value obsessed. Like you, as a knife dealer I dealt frequently with amatuer metalurgists and wanna be outdoor gurus, hikers, backpackers, weekend warriors, etc. that thought they new it all because they read it on the error'net or had a top score on their Gameboy. In the end, no custom knife in the world gave them any skills to use it any safer or better than the guy with the $20 Buck 110 from Wal-Mart.

While I am in no way a RKI, I do understand the differences in Aluminum and Steel frames to a very small degree and have personal experience that makes me favor Shimano over SRAM but, the reality is that with the new generation of components from either company will vastly exceed my previous experiences. So in the end, I most likely won't notice the subtle differences in most components and will likely never fully appreciate an ~$800 suspension fork over a more mundane and modest cost Recon. What I will notice is whether my wrists, shoulders and, back hurt after a long ride (>60 minutes or even >15) and I find my bicycle sitting collecting dust due to this fact.

So, coming full circle to cost and value. $500 bike with great components is a poor value if I won't ride it. A $1500 bike is a great value if actually ride it enough to scuff the tires. And, the most expensive upgrade I will make is the one to replace a component that doesn't work out for me whether a fork, tire, frame or, something else.

Best Regards,
Sid

 

[kojackJKU]

The bikes that always "speak" to me have a big "S" on them. Always have always will. I don't know why.....All my friends were buying giants and cannondales....I bought the only specialized in town. It's still in my garage!

 

[Co-opski]

The bikes that always "speak" to me have a big "S" on them. Always have always will. I don't know why.....All my friends were buying giants and cannondales....I bought the only specialized in town. It's still in my garage!

My go to local bike shop is Specialized and Salsa, with some smaller brands like Advocate, Ritchey, Otso. Not sure if they are going to keep Salsa now that REI across the street is caring them. Nicholas Carmen and Lael Wilcox work at that shop. Lael has been riding Specialized rigs for the last few years and Nick is on a custom Waltworks now that he is not riding Salsa. Lael just finished the Baja Divide for the 2nd time this winter in 11 days and 13 hours. Beast mode. https://laelwilcox.com/tag/baja-divide/
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