Axle Width Questions Bantam T3-C: Updated with Build

[MotorMycle]

UPDATE: Done, so I turned this into my build thread. Happy reading and thanks for the help! I settled on a 53.5" width.






I'll be ordering an axle and have questions. I'll try and go in order.

1) Can anyone tell me the original axle width WMS to WMS. I think it's 49-1/2" but I can't find it in print any where.

2) I'm asking for a double check on my math, I think I want to add 4" on each side which will give me a 57-1/2" axle. I'll be using wheels that match my CJ7 so 33"x12.5xR15 on 15"x8" wheels with 4" of backspacing. I did a test fit with the stock axle and one tire and it made contact with the tub. I'm not sure what I should have for clearance so I'd welcome suggestions.

3) Can anyone tell me what width they ordered their replacement axle for those have done similar projects? In my searching I found lots of threads where someone ultimately asked the same question but I have yet to find a response.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I'm attaching pics because everyone loves photos right? At this point I've stripped everything down and plan to drop the tub off at the media blaster today to have it cleaned up and weld thru primer sprayed. I had to rip out the floor so once the frame rails are cleaned up I can add some more to beef it up, weld in the new floor, bedliner, RTT, etc etc etc. I'll be taking the springs to a local leaf shop to see if they're salvageable otherwise I'll order replacements from Quadratec. Sorry for the rambling, thanks for the help!

 

[Miamihurr2006]

Since no one has responded I'm wondering what you decided to do. I'm in the same boat at the moment. I'm about to order an axle from Dexter axles and I was going to go with a 57" as well from Hub face to hub face. I have an M100 which it appears you also have.

 

[Robert Bills]

Some food for thought for your Bantam T3-C:

Our family Bantam trailer has used many tire and wheel combinations since my father purchased it in 1965, starting with the old L70-15 tire size on 15x6 CJ-5 rims, then 11.00-15 Armstrong flotation tires on 15x8 rims (from ******** Cepek when he first began selling tires out of his garage in South Gate CA), which matched the tires and wheels on our '66 CJ-5 V-6, then L78-15 with stock Jeep 15x7 wheels when we bought our CJ-7, later changed to 235/75R15 radials and finally to 31x10.5x15 tires. All of them rubbed on the tub a bit when flexed.

When I restored the trailer in 2005 I was still convinced that I wanted to match the tires and wheels on the trailer and jeep so that I could get by with carrying one spare, but eventually decided that 33x12.5x15 tires are too heavy and too wide, and that the diameter is too great for them to fit under the fenders without lift springs or a spring-over conversion which, in my opinion, makes the trailer too tall for loading and unloading gear and raises the center of gravity too far. I struggled with the concept of matching trailer and jeep wheels/tires for awhile, but abandoned the idea when I went with 35" tires on my jeep - no way was I going to put tires that tall on my trailer.

I eventually determined that there were effectively two tire choices for me that would work without having to purchase a new axle, fabricate fenders with a different radius, use lift springs, etc.: (1) The original size tires and wheels that came from the Bantam factory,i.e., 7.00-16 tires on 16x4.5 Kelsey Hayes wheels identical to early CJ wheels, OR (2) 31x10.5 tires, which are the largest that will fit under the stock fenders with stock springs (but which will still rub off paint from the tub).

There is also a third option, which will allow visually matching wheels and tires with a jeep (if not an exact match) and the use of a single spare, which does not require the purchase of a new axle, but which will require a spring lift, and that is the BFG T/A KO2 33"x10.5-15 tire on a 7" wide jeep wheel. You can then use a single 33x10.5 spare for both your jeep and trailer.

I eventually decided to go with the original Bantam wheel and tire combination - 7.00-16 NDCC military tires on 16x4.5 Kelsey Hayes wheels (identical to CJ-2 and CJ-3 wheels). They are a perfect fit, do not rub, and I have not had the need to use a spare when on the trail. (I do carry a tire tube repair kit, spare tube and tire spoons for the trailer, and also a tire plug kit and spare tire for the tubeless tires on my tow rig). I recently acquired a "vintage" ConFerr rack for the trailer and will be mounting a trailer spare there (because the older I get the less enthused I am about DIY tire repairs vs. changing a tire and taking the flat to a tire shop so they can do the work.)

I think the trailer wheels and tires look fine with my current tow rig even though they are not an exact match:

Best of luck with your trailer project.

 

[MotorMycle]

Miamihurr2006 I'll post the width when I pull the trigger on ordering one.

Robert thanks so much for the reply and insight. Your trailer is one I have saved on my idea list. I appreciate you taking the time to post your findings. I don't plan to go bigger than 33s and I am find with moving or building new fenders to accommodate them. PS I love the top on your trailer. I'm going to try to find a pickup topper and narrow it for a similar luck. Someday that is. Ha, right now I just want to be able to get this thing on the road.

In my searching I found another post where someone outlined the method I'm going to use:
Tub width of 38" + 4" (2" clearance for each side) + (backspacing plus tire bulge) = total width.

I'm getting tires mounted up hopefully tomorrow. when I do I'm going to lay one flat on the ground and measure the distant from the ground to the mounting surface of the wheel. That way it accounts for backspacing and tire bulge. Say for arguments sake it comes out to be 5" I'll double it to 10" (5" for each side) and that would put my width needed at 38+4+10=52" hypothetically. I'm thinking when I measure the tires it'll be more than 5" since they're 12.5s but there's no use speculating now. Tomorrow I'll measure 3 times before I order.
Thanks fellas!

 

[MotorMycle]

Hitch shoe





Robert I'll also say thanks for the "shoe" idea for the hitch. I'm also happy it made it a little longer. Harbor freight to the rescue!

 

[MotorMycle]

Tires

Okay tires are mounted.





I'm calling that 5-1/4" to the mounting surface.

So back to the math, 38" + 4" + 10.5" = 52.5" axle width. Perches will be 36" on center.

Can anyone confirm for me that their tub is 38" wide? I don't have it here to measure and after all of this I don't want to be off by an inch or something.
Thanks!

 

[Miamihurr2006]

My tub is 38" however the axle that is on there from Hf-Hf is 56 1/4 inches stock. IDK if the 52" you are going to order will be enough. The measurements I have gotten for the same sized tires would be 57" however that doesn't seem to be enough since they are considerably wider than the stock tires.

 

[Miamihurr2006]

How long is your stock axle from Hub face to hub face? What did those wheels and tires run you?

 

[MotorMycle]

I totally agree. I think I'm missing something and can't figure out why. I'll measure the opposite side of the tire tonight to see if maybe these are offset weird somehow. Worst case I'll wait until I have the tub back and mock everything up to measure. If I wait a few more days to order so be it.

Stock axle is 49"

Wheels are from summit $45 each. I found a used tire shop that had the tires in his warehouse. I got them for $50 each.

 

[Miamihurr2006]

Have you made any progress?

 

[MotorMycle]

Ha yes and no. I'm due to pick up the trailer on Monday from the media blaster then I'll measure once and for all. Since all I had was my jeep here, imagine my surprise when I decided to measure the back section of the tub and found it's 36"? I have widetrack axles so that means my stock CJ7 rear axle should be 54.5" it looks like I had about 4" clearance on each side between the tire sidewall and the tub. That would suggest I could get the same width for the trailer and still have enough clearance for a 38" wide trailer tub, but I'm done speculating. Monday I'll measure.

 

[MotorMycle]

Measured and confirmed 52.5" will work fine. I think I'm going to do 53.5" to split the difference between my original measurement and the factory CJ7 Axle. If I had gone 57" it would have been wider than my Jeep which I think would have been pretty unnecessary. Plus I still need to make fenders to cover all this anyway. Ordering tomorrow. Thanks for the help.

 

[MotorMycle]

Progress

I guess it's worth saying that it's back from the media blaster. I had the whole thing sprayed with Eastwood weld thru primer. Added my first two cross bars today to start beefing it up. Happy to be making progress, but still so much work to do!

 

[Miamihurr2006]

Glad to see such progress.I assume the shorter axle is possible due to the 4" backpacking of the wheels. Can't wait to see it finished. I'm speaking to ab axle fabricator here in chattanooga. Should be ordering soon. I welded the hinges on the other day for the lid and I have the latches for it to weld on tomorrow.

 

[MotorMycle]

Nice, yeah I ordered it today. Hopefully it'll be the 2-3/8" as I requested. I also went on Walcks 4wd and ordered springs, shackles, and U bolts and stuff. Now if I could just finish welding everything up so I can paint it and put it back together!