OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
I do believe you are correct. Wichita.
That's a pretty good and concise description of Seattle. Though being from SoCal, the Seattle real estate market is quite the bargain in comparison.
Ford Escape e/x Build
- Thread starter OuterLimits
- Start date
I do believe you are correct. Wichita.
That's a pretty good and concise description of Seattle. Though being from SoCal, the Seattle real estate market is quite the bargain in comparison.
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
THE SUSPENSION CONUNDRUM
This topic has caused me more grief and consternation (even some occasional gnashing of teeth) than all other mods combined.
To lift… or not to lift… That is surely the question.
It has been that classic meme of an angel on one shoulder and beelzebub on the other. Back and forth. Pro and con. Lift or stock.
I tried to put my analytical thoughts and copious research on this topic into words, but after an hour of furious typing, I hadn’t scratched the surface. I realized this would end up looking like a doctoral dissertation, filled with conjecture, opinion, and confusion.
Out of concern for my fellow EP’ers sanity, I will spare you the pain of going through all that and just jump right to my final conclusions.
(These are really just "stream of consciousness" bullet points on the topic)
-There is no such thing as a free lunch. Virtually any performance mod you make to a vehicle has potential for negative consequences (even if it is just in the form of financial cost).
-For a suspension to operate optimally, springs, shocks/struts, and geometry need to be properly matched. Start messing with individual components and there is potential for negative consequences. (ride quality, handling, articulation, improper dampening, etc.)
-With the sheer volume of 1st gen Escapes, Mariners, and Tributes on the road (or in scrap yards), I can acquire OEM compatible parts anywhere in the US, same day or within 24 hours.
-When in need of wisdom, I consult the “Book of Brady”
Chapter 1, verse 3 and 10: “The 10 Commandments of Modifying an Overland Vehicle”
3) Suspension Performance: The suspension system, geometry, and handling with a load are a reflection of proper design. The vehicle must perform just as well on pavement as it does on the dirt.”
10) Quality and Design over Quantity: Contrary to what we see on the web, it is not the truck that defines you, but your experiences.
“Simplicity and reliability is the key to vehicle preparation for long-distance adventure travel.” –Scott Brady
-The Fugitive has now driven California deserts, mountains, snow, beach, and dunes. The OEM suspension design and specification has been entirely adequate for my needs.
-For my off-road driving requirements, a properly tuned suspension, full articulation, quality All-Terrains, rugged skid plates, and competent driving will get me where I need to go.
-Out driving recently, I saw a beautiful ‘70s vintage Datsun station wagon cruising down the road. Both rear side widows were littered with stickers from the many adventures this vehicle had experienced. There was no 4x4 conversion, big lift, or meaty mud-terrain tires. Just a well cared for stock vehicle that functioned as their shuttle to adventure.
-I realized I had been fretting and frittering away entirely too much time and mental energy where it wasn’t needed. It was time to get the suspension freshened up and get back out on the roads to adventure.
-I found a combo deal/rebate at Rock Auto for KYB front struts/springs, rear KYB shocks, rear Moog springs, and Moog tie rod ends for the price of the H&R springs alone. I charged the entire lot to Mr. Underhill’s American Express card.
-I’m certain I will disappoint some of my friends here by not going for the lift, but my overland brothers and sisters can find solace and comfort knowing this solution best matches my specific requirements for replacement parts accessibility, affordability, reliability, and comfortability.
Next: Suspension Breakdown and Implementation.
This topic has caused me more grief and consternation (even some occasional gnashing of teeth) than all other mods combined.
To lift… or not to lift… That is surely the question.
It has been that classic meme of an angel on one shoulder and beelzebub on the other. Back and forth. Pro and con. Lift or stock.
I tried to put my analytical thoughts and copious research on this topic into words, but after an hour of furious typing, I hadn’t scratched the surface. I realized this would end up looking like a doctoral dissertation, filled with conjecture, opinion, and confusion.
Out of concern for my fellow EP’ers sanity, I will spare you the pain of going through all that and just jump right to my final conclusions.
(These are really just "stream of consciousness" bullet points on the topic)
-There is no such thing as a free lunch. Virtually any performance mod you make to a vehicle has potential for negative consequences (even if it is just in the form of financial cost).
-For a suspension to operate optimally, springs, shocks/struts, and geometry need to be properly matched. Start messing with individual components and there is potential for negative consequences. (ride quality, handling, articulation, improper dampening, etc.)
-With the sheer volume of 1st gen Escapes, Mariners, and Tributes on the road (or in scrap yards), I can acquire OEM compatible parts anywhere in the US, same day or within 24 hours.
-When in need of wisdom, I consult the “Book of Brady”
Chapter 1, verse 3 and 10: “The 10 Commandments of Modifying an Overland Vehicle”
3) Suspension Performance: The suspension system, geometry, and handling with a load are a reflection of proper design. The vehicle must perform just as well on pavement as it does on the dirt.”
10) Quality and Design over Quantity: Contrary to what we see on the web, it is not the truck that defines you, but your experiences.
“Simplicity and reliability is the key to vehicle preparation for long-distance adventure travel.” –Scott Brady
-The Fugitive has now driven California deserts, mountains, snow, beach, and dunes. The OEM suspension design and specification has been entirely adequate for my needs.
-For my off-road driving requirements, a properly tuned suspension, full articulation, quality All-Terrains, rugged skid plates, and competent driving will get me where I need to go.
-Out driving recently, I saw a beautiful ‘70s vintage Datsun station wagon cruising down the road. Both rear side widows were littered with stickers from the many adventures this vehicle had experienced. There was no 4x4 conversion, big lift, or meaty mud-terrain tires. Just a well cared for stock vehicle that functioned as their shuttle to adventure.
-I realized I had been fretting and frittering away entirely too much time and mental energy where it wasn’t needed. It was time to get the suspension freshened up and get back out on the roads to adventure.
-I found a combo deal/rebate at Rock Auto for KYB front struts/springs, rear KYB shocks, rear Moog springs, and Moog tie rod ends for the price of the H&R springs alone. I charged the entire lot to Mr. Underhill’s American Express card.
-I’m certain I will disappoint some of my friends here by not going for the lift, but my overland brothers and sisters can find solace and comfort knowing this solution best matches my specific requirements for replacement parts accessibility, affordability, reliability, and comfortability.
Next: Suspension Breakdown and Implementation.
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
Suspension Breakdown and Implementation.
The stock Escape suspension is really pretty decent. The springs, shocks and struts are decently rugged and well spec'd to the vehicle. It still performs acceptably on the road, but after 12 years, the suspension is showing its age off road.
The two glaring weaknesses to the OEM design are the front stabilizer links and the outer tie rod ends.
The stabilizer links are puny and get loose over time. They look like a component better suited on a Prius. The fix is Moog links. Far beefier and has bonus zerk fittings.
The OEM tie rod ends themselves are pretty robust and resistant to failure, but the grease boot is flimsy and tears easily. This exposes the joint to water/crud and the lack of a zerk fitting makes it impossible to flush out the debris.
The replacement Moog tie rod ends are strong, have a tougher grease boot, and sport a zerk fitting.
Up front I will be using the KYB strut-plus. This is a combo assembly that includes the strut, spring, and all associated goodies, pre-built and ready to install.
Since the front end will be gutted it makes sense to replace the stabilizer bushings. The stock bushings are probably getting a little stale by now.
NEXT- REAR SUSPENSION
The stock Escape suspension is really pretty decent. The springs, shocks and struts are decently rugged and well spec'd to the vehicle. It still performs acceptably on the road, but after 12 years, the suspension is showing its age off road.
The two glaring weaknesses to the OEM design are the front stabilizer links and the outer tie rod ends.
The stabilizer links are puny and get loose over time. They look like a component better suited on a Prius. The fix is Moog links. Far beefier and has bonus zerk fittings.
The OEM tie rod ends themselves are pretty robust and resistant to failure, but the grease boot is flimsy and tears easily. This exposes the joint to water/crud and the lack of a zerk fitting makes it impossible to flush out the debris.
The replacement Moog tie rod ends are strong, have a tougher grease boot, and sport a zerk fitting.
Up front I will be using the KYB strut-plus. This is a combo assembly that includes the strut, spring, and all associated goodies, pre-built and ready to install.
Since the front end will be gutted it makes sense to replace the stabilizer bushings. The stock bushings are probably getting a little stale by now.
NEXT- REAR SUSPENSION
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
REAR SUSPENSION
The rear is comprised of KYB shocks and Moog springs. The KYB shocks are well matched to OEM spring length and rate, with a touch more dampening.
The Moog springs will be topped with fresh Moog shock insulators.
An alignment completes the project.
NEXT: TEST DRIVE
The rear is comprised of KYB shocks and Moog springs. The KYB shocks are well matched to OEM spring length and rate, with a touch more dampening.
The Moog springs will be topped with fresh Moog shock insulators.
An alignment completes the project.
NEXT: TEST DRIVE
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
TEST DRIVE!!!
Well, tie me to an anthill and smear my ears with jelly! I don't remember the Escape ever cruising so smoothly down the road.
The new suspension just flattens out the third world style SoCal roads. No more rattle from the end links. Smooooooth!
The freeway ride is quieter as well. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense. After 12 years, the stabilizer bushings, shock bushings, and spring insulators are not as compliant as they used to be, allowing the road noise to feed right into the chassis. The fresh bushings and insulators are definitely making an aural difference.
Here's another unexpected "bounce" to the new suspension. I am typically a conservative "5 mph over" driver on the freeway. I can normally judge my speed by road noise and feel. With the new suspension ride experience, I find myself at "15 mph over", if I don't pay close attention.
This ride improvement should lead to less driver fatigue on road trips.
FRONT
REAR
Right now, I'm sitting just shy of 8.5" clearance in the front, and almost 9.75" in the rear. I can live with that.
Bottom line, it rides like new and handles like new. I am very pleased with this upgrade.
I can't wait to get her on some dirt to see how she responds. I'm expecting good things!
(NEXT: Big Bear Snow Day!)
Well, tie me to an anthill and smear my ears with jelly! I don't remember the Escape ever cruising so smoothly down the road.
The new suspension just flattens out the third world style SoCal roads. No more rattle from the end links. Smooooooth!
The freeway ride is quieter as well. I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense. After 12 years, the stabilizer bushings, shock bushings, and spring insulators are not as compliant as they used to be, allowing the road noise to feed right into the chassis. The fresh bushings and insulators are definitely making an aural difference.
Here's another unexpected "bounce" to the new suspension. I am typically a conservative "5 mph over" driver on the freeway. I can normally judge my speed by road noise and feel. With the new suspension ride experience, I find myself at "15 mph over", if I don't pay close attention.
This ride improvement should lead to less driver fatigue on road trips.
FRONT
REAR
Right now, I'm sitting just shy of 8.5" clearance in the front, and almost 9.75" in the rear. I can live with that.
Bottom line, it rides like new and handles like new. I am very pleased with this upgrade.
I can't wait to get her on some dirt to see how she responds. I'm expecting good things!
(NEXT: Big Bear Snow Day!)
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AggieOE
Trying to escape the city
I'll definitely say whenever I upgraded/restored our Escape's suspension, it was a night and day difference. However, I did H&R Lift springs but paired with new FoMoCo rear shocks and KYB front struts. I see you did those KYBs too and those really do wonders. Add new tie rods, sway bar end links and its better than brand new.
You'll enjoy the new suspension for sure!
You'll enjoy the new suspension for sure!
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
AggieOE, It was a tough call which way to go with the springs. I dig the more aggressive stance of your H&R lifted Escape, but this setup was the right solution for my needs.
awesome...no matter what, fresh underpinnings are a must. I did the same thing with my suburban, I used Monroe reflex monotubes, and NAPA gold everything else. Drives like a new rig now. Did you measure before and after heights? you probably got a little extra clearance with the moogs.
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
I am a believer! After getting a good look at the under-bits, I am also having the rear ball joints replaced next week.
There are roads in Death Valley and the Eastern Sierras that will washboard the tar out of a suspension. It's good to have this work done to know the suspension will be more reliable and the ride will shake loose fewer fillings.
I did measure before, but can't find my notes. Visually it looks a touch taller, especially looking at the front tire-to-fender gap.
OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
Already checked KYB and Moog. Zip, zilch, zero, zed. That said, I am very pleased with the results of the suspension re-deux. I have no qualms with maintaining stock geometry, parts availability, and price.
Cheers
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OuterLimits
I control the horizontal and the vertical
RINGLING BROTHERS GOES TEATS UP!
Nature abhors a vacuum, and with the circus permanently out of town, something needs to be done.
I decided to try some circus stunts with my Escape. My budget is limited, so the whole thing was recorded in 180P video and edited in Bangkok.
I am currently holding auditions for a bearded woman or monkey boy that also owns an Escape.
Hope you enjoy!
(This vid is over 6 min long. Don't get fooled by the black screen transitions. I paid extra for that)
Nature abhors a vacuum, and with the circus permanently out of town, something needs to be done.
I decided to try some circus stunts with my Escape. My budget is limited, so the whole thing was recorded in 180P video and edited in Bangkok.
I am currently holding auditions for a bearded woman or monkey boy that also owns an Escape.
Hope you enjoy!
(This vid is over 6 min long. Don't get fooled by the black screen transitions. I paid extra for that)
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ADVSubaru
Observer
Fuuuuuuu, that looks sketch!