Arctic Travelller
Adventurer
I thought so. I helped put on the first half mile there the weekend prior to the eclipse and the riders all loved the track.
Not So Subtle E350 Shuttle - 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed
- Thread starter sakurama
- Start date
I thought so. I helped put on the first half mile there the weekend prior to the eclipse and the riders all loved the track.
moparmiller
New member
Ironman the 24 hours of pain at Starvation Ridge for a special kind of off road hell
sakurama
Adventurer
Oh, god. Are you kidding? I was dying after 3 laps but laps 4 and 5 weren't as bad as I relaxed enough to ride smooth and without a lot of energy. I raced some endurance road races on a 125GP bike but even then it was with a team and we did 45 min stints. I can't even comprehend trying to ride that race for 24 hours. Beyond comprehension.
Wow. I like a challenge but that certainly isn't it. Maybe when I was 30... I'd do it on a team though.
Gregor
Petrolburner
Explorer
I did the 25 hours of Starvation Ridge (daylight savings time change) on a team of 5 that turned into 3, in the mud. If I ever do it again I'll pay a couple bucks extra to register late once we know it won't be mud. Fun place to race and a good group of people.
moparmiller
New member
We are headed to eddyville tomorrow for NMA
I did 7 24s off and on and every one had a big pile of suck mud except one. Team race it and plan for 7 racers because one or two will drop out on you. Bring a 450 you don't love and tear her guts out on the most roached track this side of Odessa.
Now back to vans...
I did 7 24s off and on and every one had a big pile of suck mud except one. Team race it and plan for 7 racers because one or two will drop out on you. Bring a 450 you don't love and tear her guts out on the most roached track this side of Odessa.
Now back to vans...
Never done a 24h. I did a team 6 hour here in kansas called the st. Valentine's day massacre. Team mate did like 4 laps and had to finish by myself. So i did over 5 hours straight. I couldnt walk afterwards. Never knew my toes could cramp till that day....
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
snowgroomer
Member
What gears did you end up installing? Do you have any EGT trouble now with the trailer in the mountains? We are headed to the northwest this summer picking up a trailer in Missoula. Trailer will probably be around 8000# loaded I have a U Joint converted 7.3 with 4.30 gears and 35's with a DP 60HP tow and 80HP economy I am a bit concerned about temps in the mountains
sakurama
Adventurer
Go back to post #166 and you'll see the calculations. I have 4:30's in now and having towed our 6-7000lb trailer I can say that I probably should have gone with 4:56's. The 4:30's still seem high with the 35's and if I bump the controller down to the "tow" setting it tends to keep the boost in the 10-12lbs range and that keeps the temps from climbing too high. I think I mentioned in the thread what I was seeing but towing up big mountains the van can't pull 3rd gear with the trailer or if it does temps start to really climb. In second, with 4:30's towing 7000lbs we can maintain 35-40mph with the EGT reading about 1200F and the trans climbing to 250 (it's normally in the 100-150 range) so I think that gearing down a bit more would help. I can swap the controller to the "daily drive" setting which is, I think, an 80hp boost but then the van will end up belching a giant cloud of black smoke and I can't stomach that but it will pull harder but tends to end up trying to shift into 4th from 3rd (my OD switch doesn't work or perhaps I'd be able to keep it in 3rd).
So if I were to do it again with 35's I'd go 4:56's but I may be going to smaller tires for other issues...
Gregor
moparmiller
New member
Going to 33" for the mpg?
Fork-N-Road
Member
I just bought 35's and have the same 4x4 kit, I'm curious what "other issues" you are dealing with? Thank you.
sakurama
Adventurer
So the issue I've been dealing with is death wobble. Initially this started on our first trip when the the track bar mount started moving because the steering box was installed with undersized bolts. This left us stranded in Denver for the night until I figured it out. For the remainder of the trip I would have to stop at the side of the road to tighten the bolts every few hundred miles. MG was super responsive but asked me to not post about that on my thread. I didn't know anything about death wobble and didn’t want to unfairly malign him so I honored his request.
Unfortunately it's been almost a year and we have not found a solution.
To date the things we've changed: steering box was updated to the current year, drag link bearings replaced, track bar bearings replaced, control arm bearings replaced, wheel hubs replaced and ball joints replaced. Each of these would make a very immediate and temporary improvement but symptoms would quickly reappear. About a month ago MG completely redesigned the track bar mount in response to a video I took that showed the mount flexing. He also discovered that the death wobbles had cracked my frame at the track bar mount. He repaired the frame and he redesigned the track bar mount, extensively bracing it and tying it into the frames crossmember. Here's the updated crossmember which improved the vans handling considerably.
He also replaced the Moog 880 springs with lower 860’s that leveled the van out but it now it bottoms over any speed bump taken at more than 10-15mph. He lowered my tire pressure from 65 to 55psi. This greatly improved things (aside from the bottoming) and we took the van to Colorado over spring break only to discover, on the downhill side of Monarch Pass, that the death wobble was still there any time you touched the brakes between 45-55mph. The solution was to put the van in second gear and use the engine braking to get down the pass.
At this point the only thing not changed was the tires. MG has suggested from the beginning that the 35" BFG's might be to blame (too large) so I bought a set of lightly used (16,000 miles) stock 2016 Superduty wheels and tires and yet the death wobble is still there. Less than before but any bump can still set the van into a wobble. Braking while descending a hill or off ramp between 45-55mph will also set the van into a wobble. MG offered to install a double steering damper at his expense but I expressed concern that that isn’t addressing whatever is causing this. If it really is only my van then why?
Today MG informed me that, "Moving forward, I'm unable to service your vehicle as it is outside the scope of what we're working on now."
So I'm posting now because without MG I need to find a solution on my own and hopefully with the help of folks here I'll be able to solve this. I regret not being more transparent but I really considered MG a friend...
Moving forward here are two clips of the wobble that I filmed with a GoPro to show MG. The first is the van with the original track bar mount and the 35" BFG's and the second is with the stock tires, wheels and the revised track bar mount. In both videos all front end parts have been replaced with new - the only difference is the track bar and the tires. Today I made an appointment at the local 4WheelParts shop but I'm also hoping that more knowledgable folks here can offer advice.
We have a lot of plans for the summer and really would love to be able to use our van so any help you can offer would be extremely appreciated. Thanks!
Gregor
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nick disjunkt
Adventurer
Wow! that looks like it would be a scary experience to ride out. Sorry I can't be of any help but I hope that you manage to get it resolved
luthj
Engineer In Residence
No expert, but it looks like your track bar mount is not rigid. As long as the frame side of the track bar can move, you will never be able to stop the natural wobble, as the axles movement simulates a self reinforcing steering input. That's my guess. Other sources of play in the steering may contribute.
That long arm bracket is putting lots of torque on the frame. I think it needs triangulated somehow.
The farther from parallel the track bar is from the axle, the more bump steer you will get. So when the first oscillation of wobble transfers weight to the right wheel it causes a small shift left/right in the axle as that side compresses, this also adds a simulated steering input.
More low speed shock damping would help?
That long arm bracket is putting lots of torque on the frame. I think it needs triangulated somehow.
The farther from parallel the track bar is from the axle, the more bump steer you will get. So when the first oscillation of wobble transfers weight to the right wheel it causes a small shift left/right in the axle as that side compresses, this also adds a simulated steering input.
More low speed shock damping would help?
Last edited:
another_mike
Adventurer
So the issue I've been dealing with is death wobble. Initially this started on our first trip when the the track bar mount started moving because the steering box was installed with undersized bolts. This left us stranded in Denver for the night until I figured it out. For the remainder of the trip I would have to stop at the side of the road to tighten the bolts every few hundred miles. MG was super responsive but asked me to not post about that on my thread. I didn't know anything about death wobble and didn’t want to unfairly malign him so I honored his request.
Unfortunately it's been almost a year and we have not found a solution.
To date the things we've changed: steering box was updated to the current year, drag link bearings replaced, track bar bearings replaced, control arm bearings replaced, wheel hubs replaced and ball joints replaced. Each of these would make a very immediate and temporary improvement but symptoms would quickly reappear. About a month ago MG completely redesigned the track bar mount in response to a video I took that showed the mount flexing. He also discovered that the death wobbles had cracked my frame at the track bar mount. He repaired the frame and he redesigned the track bar mount, extensively bracing it and tying it into the frames crossmember. Here's the updated crossmember which improved the vans handling considerably.
He also replaced the Moog 880 springs with lower 860’s that leveled the van out but it now it bottoms over any speed bump taken at more than 10-15mph. He lowered my tire pressure from 65 to 55psi. This greatly improved things (aside from the bottoming) and we took the van to Colorado over spring break only to discover, on the downhill side of Monarch Pass, that the death wobble was still there any time you touched the brakes between 45-55mph. The solution was to put the van in second gear and use the engine braking to get down the pass.
At this point the only thing not changed was the tires. MG has suggested from the beginning that the 35" BFG's might be to blame (too large) so I bought a set of lightly used (16,000 miles) stock 2016 Superduty wheels and tires and yet the death wobble is still there. Less than before but any bump can still set the van into a wobble. Braking while descending a hill or off ramp between 45-55mph will also set the van into a wobble. MG offered to install a double steering damper at his expense but I expressed concern that that isn’t addressing whatever is causing this. If it really is only my van then why?
Today MG informed me that, "Moving forward, I'm unable to service your vehicle as it is outside the scope of what we're working on now."
So I'm posting now because without MG I need to find a solution on my own and hopefully with the help of folks here I'll be able to solve this. I regret not being more transparent but I really considered MG a friend...
Moving forward here are two clips of the wobble that I filmed with a GoPro to show MG. The first is the van with the original track bar mount and the 35" BFG's and the second is with the stock tires, wheels and the revised track bar mount. In both videos all front end parts have been replaced with new - the only difference is the track bar and the tires. Today I made an appointment at the local 4WheelParts shop but I'm also hoping that more knowledgable folks here can offer advice.
We have a lot of plans for the summer and really would love to be able to use our van so any help you can offer would be extremely appreciated. Thanks!
Gregor
Surprised MG is leaving you out there. This community isnt that big, people wont forget that.
I also have a MG designed front coil kit... no death wobble.. yet. But with another 5000 mile trip coming up this summer, its not a good feeling to have something like this to worry about.