Destination Unknown - a 1997 F350 build

[Chorky]

A frame repair shop I spoke with said they've seen it 3 times already, and some searching turned up several posts of it happening under "normal driving" conditions too. Best of luck though!

Well from an engineering perspective it certainly makes sense with load placement and stress points, and original design of the frame. That is unfortunate, but I think with some careful consideration I can still make it work - it just means more engineering than I had previously planned on doing. But the whole idea will heavily depend on how much weigh I end up with which will determine if a normal spring/overload will be necessary or not. But I much appreciate your input! Without it I probably would be in a world of hurt! :beer::beer: Out of curiosity, how did the shop repair your frame? Was it mostly just welded together or did they add some steel?

For sake of conversation, the situation can further be compounded I think if a pivot subframe were to be used for the bed/flatbed. Many I have seen have the load point directly over the rear axle between the spring mounts - which would then put the load directly over the airbag; however, that would only 'work' with the airbags pumped up.

 

[Motafinga]

I ended using the talents of my good friend to repair the frame using a 220 mig, he added a v groove and welded up all holes from the brackets and then we added a 3/16 "fish plate" over the repair which is basically a diamond shape and still allows frame flex without stress risers. It should be bomb proof now.

 

[Chorky]

Nice! Always handy to have around! Hopefully your problem is solved. Both sides?


Well in other news... after 20 years and 210K miles my stock radiator is finally cracking (top ridges) and needs to be replaced. I really really really really really hope it gets me and my trailer home on wednesday.

I have seen plenty of postings about a 6.0 radiator swap, and also many people discussing factory/aftermarket options.

Looking for recommendations and to hear from those who have been down this road. What are some of the pros/cons of the different options? I'm in a pretty big hurry, so not looking for a end all be all permanent fix at this point - its more of a temporary fix just to get my trailer moved around until tear-down of the truck begins.

 

[pappawheely]

I am very happy with my Champion aluminum radiator. No epoxy, billet necks, great price.

 

[Chorky]

Thank you for the input. Unfortunately they don't list a radiator for the 97 7.3, so I will likely be utilizing Mishmoto, which I have heard good things from.

 

[Seabass]

I just stumbled across this thread. I tend to only look at my subscribed threads. I got two of these 97 crew long trucks. I'd like to give my opinion if it's ok. The first truck has 315,000 on it. 460, 5spd, 4:10's. I have a flat bed on it, a 2" lift. I run simple 285-75-16 tires. It weighs 9,000lbs all the time. I beat the tee-total-hell out of it daily. Sometimes I tow over 20,000 lbs with it. These trucks are very durable. I rarely work on it. Two years ago it got a re-build and made new. I plan to drive it another ten years or so and see how it's doing. I've already owned five or six years. It's been super dependable-even before the reconditioning. I flex the crap out of it on the farm, cross diversion ditches, ruts, and creeks. I've cracked a windshield or two (pretty common in these school busses) and insurance pays for a new one each time. These old c-channel ladder style frames do flex a lot. It's just fine. Ford knew what they were doing. Ever been under a Semi? Those big 18 wheelers have c-channel ladder style frames too.....because they are strong. I own a small fleet of tractor trailers. Frames on semi's and F-350s just don't get worked on often. Sure, crap happens once in a while and you can always find someone that's had to fix one. But as a rule...no. Besides, you put a flat bed on that truck and you'll have a hard time seeing the flex in the frame because it's the body lines between the cab and bed not lining up when it's twisted that make I look so bad. My other truck, a 7.3 truck is kinda my cream puff. I swear I could put a pack of cigarettes under one tire in a flat parking lot and the body lines wouldn't be lined up. It's just how these trucks are. My work truck does have a more flexible suspension though. I'm fixing to put a different style spring setup on the diesel. But I think you've been given some sound advice so far. I've subb'd and look forward to reading about your progress. And I got lots of opinions, some aren't even good, and I never mind sharing them all. I'll drop a pic or two.

 

[Chorky]

I just stumbled across this thread.

Hey Seabass
Thanks for your input! I always appreciate hearing from different viewpoints and experiences! I've read through your threads a few times too. Its nice to hear another person say the frames on these trucks are well suited. I've done more research lately and have come to the conclusion that I will likely be sticking with the stock frame. I may swap out axles, or just change from the 10.25 to the 10.5 for the rear - haven't decided yet. I might have mentioned it earlier, but some quick calculations bring me to about a 12K payload or so on a regular basis - not including a 10K trailer (my home). I certainly don't purposefully beat up on my rigs, but it's nice to know they can take it should the occasion occur.

So since you have a flatbed, what do you think are the pros/cons of a flatbed vs an aluminum service body? I'm considering either of these routes. for my combo camp/work box.

Hopefully in a few more weeks I'll get started on this build and get more information going on here.

 

[Seabass]

Hey Seabass
Thanks for your input! I always appreciate hearing from different viewpoints and experiences! I've read through your threads a few times too. Its nice to hear another person say the frames on these trucks are well suited. I've done more research lately and have come to the conclusion that I will likely be sticking with the stock frame. I may swap out axles, or just change from the 10.25 to the 10.5 for the rear - haven't decided yet. I might have mentioned it earlier, but some quick calculations bring me to about a 12K payload or so on a regular basis - not including a 10K trailer (my home). I certainly don't purposefully beat up on my rigs, but it's nice to know they can take it should the occasion occur.

So since you have a flatbed, what do you think are the pros/cons of a flatbed vs an aluminum service body? I'm considering either of these routes. for my combo camp/work box.

Hopefully in a few more weeks I'll get started on this build and get more information going on here.

Ya know, that old work truck has done it all. It actually had an aluminum service bed on it when I bought it. I kept it on for about a year before I put a regular pickup bed on it. I wanted to be able to pull gooseneck trailers. That was the ONLY reason I took it off. There's been many times that I wish I'd left it on. Somewhere I have pics of it, I ought to post them if it the day I bought it. It was so different looking. I like the storage and security the service bed brings. It was very handy. But, the flat bed is EXTREMELY versatile. There's a reason you see so many farmers with them on their trucks. Overall I really like the flatbed. I constantly change it up. Boxes on, boxes off. Take everything off and haul more firewood than you can believe. During harvest season I cover nearly every inch with big aluminum tool boxes- each one as full as the next with support gear for all the farming equipment I'm running. I guess, though, if I wanted a camping friendly rig, I'd like the service bed a little more. Like I said, it's the gooseneck trailers that made me do away with the service bed.

 

[Chorky]

Ya know, that old work truck has done it all.

So with your service body you couldnt pull a gooseneck/5th? I thought they were typically low enough to accommodate those. Have you found the added rigidity of the flatbed to be sufficient? Many of the large size global vehicles encourage use of spring mounted systems or 4 point systems; however, I'm not sold on the idea from the standpoint of extra fab work, then again, depending on mounting points, a semi-rigid flatbed may cause more stress on the frame than even a standard truck bed. The versatility of a flatbed is a nice feature, but I figure there would be a full amount of gear to carry on regular basis for my situation that would warrant a service body. And larger items can always be put on a flatbed trailer. I am debating still though a flatbed vs. service body mostly due to cost. A custom aluminum body can be anywhere from 10-30K, while a flatbed can range from 5-20K. Naturally I would be on the lower end of both scales... There are other things to consider as well though.


Some good news came in the other day. My financial advisor gave me the green light to fully (funding wise) begin the project. THe down side is time is a premium with school and all, and finding people to do some of the work I am not able to do myself continues to be quite difficult, and is a major hold-up of starting the project. I also have not been able to settle on some project ideas, which really should be finalized before beginning tear-down.

 

[Seabass]

Chorky-
There's a guy who posts from time to time. He goes by "idaSHO". He's extremely knowledgeable about these things. It would be great if you could get him seeing this thread. He had a obs F-250 extended cab. He did a Dana 60 swap up front and built a three-point mounted flat bed. He did a great job and was packing a custom camper. The thing looked absolutely huge, but I don't think it was nearly as heavy as it looked. As I recall he wanted the truck frame to be able to flex, but not the bed. Flex in the bed would rip the camper apart over time. He has a great build thread. I just can't remember if it's here, or over at pirate 4x4, or both. I think he just bought a new truck and is selling his old flat bed truck. I was sad to hear it. But, his new rig will be awesome I'm sure. To answer some of your questions: my service bed was really tall and there was no way I could have pulled a gooseneck. My flat did add some rigidity to the truck overall, but it'll flex with the truck frame if I get things twisted enough. I wouldn't advise hard-mounting a flat that couldn't flex to the truck. You actually could have some frame problems if you do that. Probably right behind the cab. I run a couple of military M-923's with flat beds here on the farm. They too have big c-channel frames. And they are definitely made for off road. The military's solution for bed mounting and flex was to hard mount the bed at the rear, and the front mounts were on really long bolts with big coil springs wrapped around them. That way if say.....the driver side front tire dropped into a deep hole or ditch and the frame began to twist down with it, then the frame could pull away from the driver front corner of the bed. I use an identical system to mount bulk tanks on my road tractors. When frames flex, something has to give. With my old F-350 it's not hurting anything for the flat to twist. If I had a camper on it, I'd mount it the same way the military trucks beds are mounted. And I only gave about 1,800 for my flat bed. It's a Cadet and it's custom ordered to my specifications- down to the inch. However, it caused me to wait for 8 weeks to get it since it wasn't a stock order bed. I couldn't begin to tell you what you'd be happier with. Both beds have their pro's and con's. Really can't go wrong either way. Good luck!

 

[Chorky]

Thanks Seabass for the thoughts on the bed. Just realized I never responded to your post, sorry about that.


Well, my own build has been slow – much slower than wanted and anticipated, but you know, life happens. In the meantime I've done a lot more research, exploring, and thinking about the future of this truck as compared to the original build idea on the first page. But the good news is I think I can accomplish my end goals with less overall mods than originally planned.

One thing that is absolutely needed…now…is engine work. I have sprung some more oil leaks, a pretty large coolant leak, and found issues in the galley. Unfortunately I've also found some body rust. It's not bad now, but I need to fixt that pronto to avoid any major problems, so the entire interior might be coming out.

But for the engine related work. Here is a list so far of what the original plan has morphed into. It is mostly sticking to a stock set-up, with some slight power upgrades, but retaining reliability. I have decided not to go so full-bore with power, since it really has enough as it is and I don't really need to go 90 up a mountain pass with a 15K trailer anyway.

Now before doing all the work, I should also note, I'm going to do a compression test. Some investigations revealed inconclusive evidence of an issue. Most likely it is a bad injector, but it could be a cracked piston – but not likely. Once that is done and passes then the list continues:

Glow plugs with gaskets and UVC wiring update
External VC connector
New glow plug relay
New Injectors – stage 1 – Alliant Power
Complete engine removal and reseal – oil, wtr pump, front cover, rear main, etc….
New water pump/t-stat
All aluminum radiator
Degas tank (coolant)
All coolant hoses
Fuel hoses (valley)
Fuel heater element
MAP sensor and hose
Y pipe update
Exhaust manifolds repair
New ICP sensor
IPR valve and connector
Turbo hoses update
Gauges
Diamond eye turbo back exhaust


So, I'm sure you can take note that the majority of the parts are all service related. Upon thurough inspection it became apparent that the previous owners, although taking very good care of the truck, didn't do any servicing – not even updating the turbo pipes. Yes, I have the original orange ones! Crazy!

These simple things should provide a drastic increase in performance as compared to how it sits now.

With any luck, work should begin within a few weeks. And then the frame/suspension/axles can be worked on.

 

[Chorky]

Well great news today! Truck got put in the shop last Thursday and passed compression testing with less than 10% difference between all cylinders. Let the engine removal continue! In the mean time, I'm researching much more work - including full drivetrain rebuild (axles, to include suspension work and 'lockers'), frame work, coms, recovery gear, etc... just typical stuff.


But, I have a question for the community!
After chatting with a frame guy in town, he suggested I use POR15. Now, I know this has excellent ratings, and is used well among the Jeep community (to which I also belong), but, on such a large truck I have concerns. I have never used POR15 before, and was told it cures as hard as a rock, and is excellent in durability. But, two things. One, my frame will not be totally stripped. I dont have time or cash for a full frame off to blast the whole thing. So it will be steam cleaned super well, scraped and grinded as much as possible to remove existing surface rust and loose/flakey factory undercoating. And two, frame flex / rock hard coating compatibility.

Concern 1 - will POR 15 really go over the combined frame and leftover securely adhered factory undercoating ok? I dont have a lot of choice here right now, but certainly need something that can go over it all (including axles) minus things that will be taped off like wiring, cables, etc...). I really want to try and get the frame, tanks, axles, etc.. all protected before this summer since I may be permanently moving soon.

Concern 2 - frame flex. We all know these frames flex a ton. With a product that cures 'as hard as a rock' that seems to me as if frame flexing will result in the product (POR15) cracking, allowing water intrusion, and negating the purpose of rust protection in the first place... So would a product like Eastwoods 'rubberized' undercoating be a better choice? I called Eastwood, and they said 'no' on the rubberized stuff, and instead suggested their 2K product, but that I am sure requires a 100% stripped frame, to bear metal - which I would love to do, but just isn't realistic, for now anyway. it also seems to be used for road vehicles as every review I read discussed classic cars, not big old flexy off road trucks.

In any case, hoping you all can help me make a solid decision - after all the truck is only as good as the sum of its components and the weakest link.

 

[Chorky]

FYI Seabass -

I have decided on a aluminum service bed. Spoke with the owner of a very well known place in town (my friend/current landlord actually used to build their race trucks frames), and told him all about my truck and needs/desires. He's all in for building a sweet setup at a good price too. Likely it will be just spring mounted, but he deals with quite a few 'off highway' vehicles, and has rarely seen a failure from their fabrication. I'll likely order a 'custom' aluminum bed though, since there are some specific things I am looking for. Not sure if that'll be this year or next though.

 

[Chorky]

Bump for thoughts/suggestions on frame work - either POR15, eastwood of some sort, or normal undercoating - rust encapsulator and prevention.

 

[Seabass]

Just go get a gallon or two of black rustoleum paint and some cheap brushes. Apply a few coats- very liberally. Slather that crap everywhere! I've done both my trucks this way. We have some salt here and I'm absolutely amazed at how well the paint has been protecting my frames. Once a year I literally lay on my back under each truck and pressure wash the frames and bottoms of the cabs. A day or two later, after plenty of time to dry, I touch the frames up with some rustoleum spray paint. It's working great!