Diesel power

[Chorky]

I'm currently working up some ideas for a trailer build (and 'canopy camper'), and one of the many considerations is what to do about water heater, air heater, oven/stove operation. I am seriously considering a diesel set-up, and going with a 12V only marine fridge and freezer with a decent battery bank and plenty of solar panels plus wind generator.

My question is for those who have actually had experience with diesel equipment. I'm not talking about the old dirty, stinky, inefficient, dangerous, leaky diesel appliances one would find in a boat from the 1940's, but rather newer appliances like one would fine in the Earth Roamer. My reason for this consideration is fuel efficiency, convenience/access, and safety. Also, please keep in mind this is for an 'off-road' trailer.

Here are the pros/cons that I see so far for DIESEL
Pros:
safer
efficient (up to 2.5x's that of propane)
readily available (in most places, within an hours drive)
able to store a lot of fuel (such as a 100 gal transfer tank)
Same fuel as my truck (can transfer back and forth if needed)

Cons:
requires decent amount of fabrication
unsure of border crossing (Canada) with diesel tank full of fuel
all eggs in one basked - with same fuel type as vehicle
cold weather operation (-40) could mean fuel gelling problems = bad, may need a heating system = heavier load on 12V system
diesel fuel may be hard to find up north (alaska/yukon/northwest territories) - then again, if diesel is hard to find then I have a bigger problem as I have a diesel truck (although I will be able to carry 125 gal soon)


Here are the pros/cons I see for PROPANE:
Pros:
used for many years
wide range of available appliances
much less custom fab work needed
'standard' for trailers/campers
may work better in cold environments even though available volume/pressure changes drastically in cold weather (no fuel gelling) - heater blankets still probably needed

Cons
Dangerous - explosion hazard (think of getting in an accident)
cannot carry much (2x40lb tanks max)
can increase water vapor into trailer, increase condensation
leak hazard (high pressure)
1/2 as efficient as diesel


Now, I could add a diesel generator to resolve some potential 12V demand issues (such as blanket heaters), but theyre loud, heavy, expensive, and I dont think they work well in cold weather - although 70% of my use will be in temps above 40 degrees F.


So I'm curious to hear what you all think - especially those who have a fair amount of actual use with diesel systems. I know most diesel systems are in boats and campers, not so much trailers - but I am looking into custom fabing diesel into a trailer.

 

[DUTCH]

The diesel Webasto unit, as used in the Kimberley vans, works great for hot water and space heating; and it is very miserly on fuel use. I'm still not sold on the Webasto diesel ceramic cook top.

 

[Chorky]

it is very miserly on fuel use. I'm still not sold on the Webasto diesel ceramic cook top.

Thanks Dutch

Yeah I looked up some specs for marine diesel fireplaces even (way different than a air heater) and was amazed at the listed specs. I bet a air heater is even better, although it has the addition of a 12v fan requirement.

What is it you like/dislike about the ceramic cook top? I've never even used a cooktop before, always had natural gas or ( or electric back in the day).

 

[DUTCH]

Thanks Dutch

What is it you like/dislike about the ceramic cook top? I've never even used a cooktop before, always had natural gas or ( or electric back in the day).

Very slow to heat up, very slow to cool down and hard to keep clean. Also, cooking inside the karavan stinks up the inside.

I rarely use mine. I have used it as an additional space heater on cold nights; although that is specifically warned against in the user manual.

 

[Pntyrmvr]

Where did you get the idea that diesel would be hard to get in the north?

What do you think fuels the trucks that haul materials up there? Ice?

And yes propane can be carried around in a bucket at -40° so gelling is an issue.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

 

[Chorky]

Very slow to heat up, very slow to cool down and hard to keep clean. Also, cooking inside the karavan stinks up the inside.

I rarely use mine. I have used it as an additional space heater on cold nights; although that is specifically warned against in the user manual.

I'm assuming the smell is in regards to the food being cooked in a small space? I currently live in a 17' trailer (for the last 6 months anyway), so cooking inside isnt too much of a bother - it does make for a lot of olfactory sensations but I open a bunch of windows and turn the fans on. That is interesting about the slow heating up and cooling part though - that seems like it could be a real pain to deal with. I'm also not a fan of just one cooking plain. I think there are other options that offer multiple 'burners' and even ovens.

Could you elaborate a little on the water heater side? I'm curious if yours is an 'on demand' type system, or if there is a reservoir needed (like a 6 gal propane heater has), or something else. I've looked up a few different models and they seem to need to constantly recirculate water.

Where did you get the idea that diesel would be hard to get in the north?

What do you think fuels the trucks that haul materials up there? Ice?

And yes propane can be carried around in a bucket at -40° so gelling is an issue.


"Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money."

Well the only reason I was thinking of that is due to diesel fuel/engines not liking cold weather so much and the Yukon/Northwest Territories being somewhat remote - even though trucks are diesel, it is not as prevalent of a fuel, at least where I live. I have to use an anti-gel additive when it gets below 40. Below 20 startup is pretty rough even with a double cycle of the glow plugs and anti-gel additive - so I can only imagine what a little diesel heater would go through. I figured in -50 it might be a problem and possibly less desired for use in cold climates. But I do know there is a ton of diesel equipment up in Prudhoe Bay, so that is contradictory to my thought. I have only used propane down to single digits, so I have had no experience using it in cold weather - but I still like the idea of using diesel over propane. That being said I do have plans to haul 125 gal in my truck, and 50-100 gal on the trailer, so even if finding a fuel station is difficult, I shouldnt have a fuel problem unless I'm out exploring for more than 3 months. My bigger concern is preventing gel from damaging components - even with an additive it will still gel at a point, which is why I was considering 12v blanket heaters and placing the tanks inside an insulated compartment, or building insulation around them. But that all relates to not knowing how the diesel air/water heaters and cook stoves actually work, and if gelling is even a problem for them.

 

[DUTCH]

Chorky,

The Webasto diesel ceramic cooktop has no diesel smell, as it exhausts outside. I just don't like residual cooking odors - especially frying grease - in my sleeping space.

The Webasto hot water and space heater is the same unit that is sold in Europe to preheat cars in the winter. No reservoir. The water is heated as the water line passes through a small heated glycol tank.

The Kimberley Karavan has interior cooking on the diesel ceramic cooktop and a microwave. It has exterior cooking with a two burner plus broiler propane stove.

Gelling of the diesel fuel is definitely a problem for both the water/air heater and the cooktop; but it's easily preventable with the right fuel and/or fuel additive.